Anyone ever seen this chap? What a horse!

[millreef]

none of my horses ever go in a dirty stable i thinking the degrading bit is having a horse laying on its back while climbing all over it. I know what i do if someone did that to me.
And in front of loads of people horses have pride. Thats what i think not saying i right.

Are there no crowds at Badminton or Burleigh or the weekend races at Aintree? Horses in every discipline have people looking at their skills and this is another example of a skill whether you agree with it or not. I also think that DevonshireDumplin meant that there will be poo and wee in the stable at some point if the door has been closed. She wasn't suggesting you stable a horse in dirty conditions.

 

[meandmyself]

I don't mind the horse performing- not at all. I'd much rather they had a job. Something about it just leave me cold, though. Maybe I just don't get the humour?

 

[jodie3]

I don't mind the horse performing- not at all. I'd much rather they had a job. Something about it just leave me cold, though. Maybe I just don't get the humour?

^^^^^^^^I agree with this, watched the clip last night and just felt rather uncomfortable with it. Lovely horse and amazingly trained but didn't like to see it lying on its back for so long.

Didn't like the second clip at all. Looked like the horse was confused with where he was in the routine and didn't understand about restarting the lying on back stretching legs out bit.

Also felt the horse didn't look totally sound, rather strange action?

No offence to the OP, its very interesting seeing clips that people find of horses doing different things. We are never going to all agree on something and after all this is HHO so be prepared for people to find fault!!

 

[Megibo]

Anyone else get the feeling that the horse was saying 'god you are a ******'

agree

loved the video, the horse is clearly well cared for and carefully trained. didn't have a problem tbh it made me laugh!

 

[tallyho!]

Well put a jumper on then.

Horses are anatomically fine to lie on their backs... As are are cows (apparently cows blow up if they lay on their sides.... Ridiculous)

Show jumping in a martingale and a Pelham leaves me cold. So does rolkur. And also reigning oh and the big lick.... And many other things but this does not leave me cold. This amuses me and I am under no illusion - this horse is well cared for and thought of.

This demonstrates on a particular level how a Man and a horse can communicate. I also believe it proves horses "think" in the sense that we do.

I would never post a video Where I thought a horse was being mistreated unless it was to highlight that purpose.

This was supposed to bring amusement. Sadly, some disagree.

 

[meandmyself]

Well, it would be a pretty dull world if everyone liked the same things. You're allowed to post the vid. I'm allowed to say that I'm not a fan of it. That's what a forum is for, after all.

 

[tallyho!]

Yes, quite, I have to agree to disagree on some things. Don't you think though, that this is on a par with many other shows on offer at events like hoys or Olympia? the Cossacks? Pignon? Guards etc

It did involve humour, funny or not, the horse was just a total star throughout I thought.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I don't mind the horse performing- not at all. I'd much rather they had a job. Something about it just leave me cold, though. Maybe I just don't get the humour?

Agree with this - seen lots of performing horses but this one makes me very uncomfortable, I've seen it before and there is something about it I really don't like it.

 

[Fantasy_World]

What makes me uncomfortable when watching a video like this is what has happened to this guy's horses off camera? You know when all the training is being done. My concerns are the techniques used in order to get the horse to drop to the floor, roll on its back and stay there, as well as bowing to the audience.
Personally I think this man appears very much up his own arse. One could argue without sounding racist but a bit like how some foreign performers are, a bit arrogant? Whether in a circus or not some folk just are, especially when it comes to performing in the ring with animals.
He also comes across as being a little haughty. Not just the performance as I know it has to be timed to try and get as much in the the duration of the show, but it is his movements around the horse.
Compare this to other performing horses like those of the Naprous family ( have seen their horses up close and personal at their yard some years ago, very looked after horses and happy too).
The Pignon brothers too. Again they have performing horses but their horses appear happier and the brothers actions around them seem slower and less impatient if that is the correct word?
Their horses actually do want to be with their trainers, and from the two videos posted of this guy I don't know if I could say the same about his horse. It looks more like trained to be with him, rather force than choice if that makes sense?

 

[Fantasy_World]

It did involve humour, funny or not, the horse was just a total star throughout I thought.[/QUOTE]

Yes the horse was I agree with that although it just made me want to get my cheque book out and rescue the damned thing

 

[EllenJay]

I liked it - made me smile

 

[FionaM12]

the degrading bit is having a horse laying on its back while climbing all over it.

And in front of loads of people horses have pride.

Don't you think perhaps you're attributing human sensitivies onto horses? I don't think there's any evidence that horses have a sense of being "degraded". Or if they do, what particular thing we make them do makes them feel degraded.

Horses have pride? Really? How do you know that?

 

[traceyann]

When i compete and my horses do well they strutt round like a prize peacock and they get a look at me stand Its a complete difference when we dont do so well. They try there `heart out for me and i think they think they have let me down when it goes wrong. They never disgrace me when they go out everyone says how well they are behaved. And im as proud of them win or lose i dont care. Maybe your right i putting it human terms but my horses are my kids. I am old fashion in my views i admit

 

[tallyho!]

What makes me uncomfortable when watching a video like this is what has happened to this guy's horses off camera? You know when all the training is being done. My concerns are the techniques used in order to get the horse to drop to the floor, roll on its back and stay there, as well as bowing to the audience.
Personally I think this man appears very much up his own arse. One could argue without sounding racist but a bit like how some foreign performers are, a bit arrogant? Whether in a circus or not some folk just are, especially when it comes to performing in the ring with animals.
He also comes across as being a little haughty. Not just the performance as I know it has to be timed to try and get as much in the the duration of the show, but it is his movements around the horse.
Compare this to other performing horses like those of the Naprous family ( have seen their horses up close and personal at their yard some years ago, very looked after horses and happy too).
The Pignon brothers too. Again they have performing horses but their horses appear happier and the brothers actions around them seem slower and less impatient if that is the correct word?
Their horses actually do want to be with their trainers, and from the two videos posted of this guy I don't know if I could say the same about his horse. It looks more like trained to be with him, rather force than choice if that makes sense?

Appearances are deceiving.

How do you KNOW that horse is not being well cared for?? At the end when the horse "chases" the haughty man, that is just simple join up. If the horse didn't want to be with him, then he would go the other way.

It's a clown act, it's supposed to look stupid and I bet it took a lot of patience and time to train him to that level. I can't imagine anyone getting that result through force and pain - quite contrary to many other equine sports if you think about it.

All I was trying to share was the immense bond between the pair. You obviously don't see it... this doesn't reflect badly on you, don't get me wrong. I guess I'm just trying to justify something I see as pretty harmless.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Personally I think this man appears very much up his own arse. One could argue without sounding racist but a bit like how some foreign performers are, a bit arrogant? He also comes across as being a little haughty. Not just the performance as I know it has to be timed to try and get as much in the the duration of the show, but it is his movements around the horse.

The man is a performer, he WILL come across as 'arrogant' because it is the style of performance he is giving. It is nothing to do with his being 'foreign'.

Think of 'Melodrama' as a style. The actors over-exaggerated their performances, they had over the top acting and loud voices, along with the music to heighten the mood and atmosphere at the time. Nowt to do with being anything but part of his performance. You might as well say ALL performers who are using that style of theatre are arrogant...

 

[Shantara]

I enjoyed the first video!
The 2nd one not so much, but I'm sure after he'd calmed down a bit, they were best of friends again.

I've seen the same act live (Not the same man or horse, it was a shetland, I think?) and the pony seemed to enjoy it's work. No mistreatment! And I can't see the horse being mistreated in that video either.

I hate it when threads turn out like this.

 

[JFTDWS]

Maybe your right i putting it human terms but my horses are my kids. I am old fashion in my views i admit

Yes you are anthropomorphising and I would say that this particular view is distinctly not old fashioned

 

[Stacey6897]

It will have taken hundreds of hours of patient training to get the horse to do those things, also a particular type of horse, just as particular types excel at dressage or racing, PokerJoe obviously has a thing for being the wrong way up, which the trainer has built on, and as the second vid demonstrates, he'll only ever get a good performance if the horse wants to do it

 

[FionaM12]

When i compete and my horses do well they strutt round like a prize peacock

i think they think they have let me down when it goes wrong. Maybe your right i putting it human terms but my horses are my kids. I am old fashion in my views i admit

I don't believe horses are capable of any of these very human concepts. And if they were, how do you know the horse in the comedy act doesn't "strut like a peacock" when he's done the act well?

Yes you are anthropomorphising and I would say that this particular view is distinctly not old fashioned

This is true. It's definitely not old fashioned to say, "My horses are my kids" but more a modern sentimental point of view. Horses were work animals traditionally, not family members.

Personally I think we do our horses a disservice when we start mistaking them for humans. I think it's up to us to try to see things from a horse's point of view in order to give them the best care we can.

 

[Shantara]

I don't believe horses are capable of any of these very human concepts. And if they were, how do you know the horse in the comedy act doesn't "strut like a peacock" when he's done the act well?

This is true. It's definitely not old fashioned to say, "My horses are my kids" but more a modern sentimental point of view. Horses were work animals traditionally, not family members.

Personally I think we do our horses a disservice when we start mistaking them for humans. I think it's up to us to try to see things from a horse's point of view in order to give them the best care we can.

I think horses are capable of some human emotion...well, I mean emotion that we both share.
When they slip in the field, providing they haven't hurt them self, they certainly look embarrassed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzoowtZBWhw&feature=related
A stallion does show off in front of mares. (Even Ned, a gelding showed off in front of his 'girlfriend Bella!)
They can look sad and happy

However, I don't think a horse can look embarrassed when a human is making it do something, it doesn't know that humans will judge it. It can be scared of doing things in front of a large crowd, but not embarrassed.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

I think horses are capable of some human emotion...well, I mean emotion that we both share.
When they slip in the field, providing they haven't hurt them self, they certainly look embarrassed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzoowtZBWhw&feature=related
A stallion does show off in front of mares. (Even Ned, a gelding showed off in front of his 'girlfriend Bella!)
They can look sad and happy

However, I don't think a horse can look embarrassed when a human is making it do something, it doesn't know that humans will judge it. It can be scared of doing things in front of a large crowd, but not embarrassed.

OMG this video amused me greatly too!!!!!! hehe silly billy!!

 

[tallyho!]

Aw bless him!! "oops, you didn't see that!! It wasn't me... "

 

[Fantasy_World]

The man is a performer, he WILL come across as 'arrogant' because it is the style of performance he is giving. It is nothing to do with his being 'foreign'.

Think of 'Melodrama' as a style. The actors over-exaggerated their performances, they had over the top acting and loud voices, along with the music to heighten the mood and atmosphere at the time. Nowt to do with being anything but part of his performance. You might as well say ALL performers who are using that style of theatre are arrogant...

Thanks for the explanation but I am in fact well versed with the performing arts

 

[Fantasy_World]

Appearances are deceiving.

How do you KNOW that horse is not being well cared for?? At the end when the horse "chases" the haughty man, that is just simple join up. If the horse didn't want to be with him, then he would go the other way.


How do you know that the horse is? I am not just talking physically but mentally. Physically the horse looks fine, but what is going on in the head? Horses can and do think.
Also I was in fact referring to what training methods had been used to get the horse to do what it does.
Horses can be trained to be with people.
Just like any other animal.
A dog that is belted by its master cruelly treated will still go to its master if called.
Likewise horses and other animals that are mistreated will still go to the people that feed them, even if the animals are half starved or beaten.

It's a clown act, it's supposed to look stupid and I bet it took a lot of patience and time to train him to that level. I can't imagine anyone getting that result through force and pain - quite contrary to many other equine sports if you think about it.

I understand it is a clown act. I have seen similar in getting a horse to lay down on a bed and cover itself up etc. However the horse that I witnessed then did not look quite so psd off and the trainer was not as haughty either.
I disliked the reprimand the horse got in the second video tbh. Especially when it is not natural for a horse to be lain on its back with a person climbing all over its belly and performing a dance act with its legs. Before anyone says it yes I know it is un-natural to ride a horse, stable it etc. Maybe un-natural to the horse but not mankind since with most animals we either use them to work, ride, eat or for pleasure companions. So I guess riding is natural to us human beings. However can't quite see how useful it would be to a person to be able to get a horse to lie on its back and do tricks unless you wanted to brand a horse and show off at the same time lol.

All I was trying to share was the immense bond between the pair. You obviously don't see it... this doesn't reflect badly on you, don't get me wrong. I guess I'm just trying to justify something I see as pretty harmless.

TBH I prefer to see the 'bond' between horses in a field, or the bond witnessed between the likes of Pignon and his horses as for me it looks more 'natural'.

 

[1Lucie]

:-( poor boy! Feel for that poor horse, esp when he's yanking him up by tail and bridle jezz should of given him a boot!

 

[tallyho!]

groan....

 

[Shantara]

groan....

This!


Also, another cutie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS9nwnfqSds&feature=fvst

 

[Ibblebibble]

a very well trained horse ! no different to a well trained dressage horse or a showjumper! And what about the horses at the Spanish riding school, those are some 'tricks' that they are taught, no different to what this guy has done with his horse. people can be so snobby, just because this 'act' isn't from some world famous school of riding it is classed as degrading

 

[DragonSlayer]

Thanks for the explanation but I am in fact well versed with the performing arts

Good, then you should know not to assume anything.

 

[FionaM12]

a very well trained horse ! no different to a well trained dressage horse or a showjumper! And what about the horses at the Spanish riding school, those are some 'tricks' that they are taught, no different to what this guy has done with his horse. people can be so snobby, just because this 'act' isn't from some world famous school of riding it is classed as degrading

Well put.

I don't believe the horse knows the difference, it's just conditioned to follow instruction. I don't believe it's thinking, "This is so degrading, if only I was a dressage horse...".