Anyone ever thought that this horse stuff is getting over complicated??

SmartieBean09

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I am constantly worrying whether I am giving my pony the best I can. I dont do much with her really apart from hacking out and the odd schooling session, yet I am always wondering whether I should be doing this or should be doing that.

She has a saddle that was made for her, an Elevator Bridle, I have spent around £200 on bits and she must have tried every horse feed out there. Dont get me wrong, I dont begrudge the money I have spent on her as I love her to bits, but was it all really necessary??

She doesnt know the difference, any well fitting saddle would have done (including the one she came with), her old £50 bridle was good enough and she is a safe pony who would go well in a plain snaffle (currently in a sweet iron linked snaffle because I was worried about the nutcracker action).

She doesnt really need feed apart from the winter when she drops weight and do I really need to spend £70 a month on feed when I could probably get the same result from cheaper feeds??

When I was younger, everything seemed a lot simpler. Why do I feel that I need to over complicate everything and am I the only one??

I speak to others at the stables and I sometimes wonder if they look at me like some silly, over protective owner who has far too much time on her hands!

I am totally and utterly skint and the thought has crossed my mind to sell some of my more expensive things and go with cheaper. Anyone else find themselves in the same situation?? (please let there be someone out there!!) :(
 
Have to agree! Had horses for 18 years and things seemed much simpler then - and even simpler when I started riding back in the dark ages!

Horses had three rugs if they were stabled - a sweetsheet (string vest), a stable rug (jute or otherwise) and a canvas NZ. They were either wearing it or they weren't! No l/w, m/w, h/w and everything in between!

If your horse lived out it must have had lots of native blood and therefore did not require a rug ;) Or a body brush :p

The horses all got dry hay unless COPD then it was soaked and they were all fed pretty much the same, inc full fat sugar beet which never seemed to cause any problems.

Everything was ridden in a single jointed snaffle, pelham or double bridle and they all seemed to manage just fine!

That said - I do enjoy pampering my ned :D
 
You sound like me. I had a huge wake up call when recently moving yards and had to sort everything out. New yard has less storage room and funnily enough I don't miss most of the stuff I had felt we needed to have just in case it made him more relaxed.
Pony on the other hand is much happier and that is all due to more turnout:)
 
I think it's all madly complicated and I don't understand half of the available gadgets, tools, equipment, supplements etc! I try my best to keep it simple so we have economy feeds, basic tack (Belle has wintec saddle that she came with, bridle with bit she came with and a martingale) and they all live out 24/7. Belle has 3 rugs, others have two now because they're older but they used to have one (shettie has none).

The more I hear people fretting about their horses, the more I fret about mine. Then I start thinking "maybe I shouldn't feed them mix" or "maybe they need a warmer rug" etc. The fact is that our horses and ponies don't appear to have any problems which can be attributed to those issues and if it's not broken, why should I fix it?

As a rider who doesn't compete at all, simple suits me best. I just don't need lots of extra bits and pieces (at the moment at least) so I try to stop myself from buying them.
 
I think you probably could cut back on some of the things without your horse noticing a thing.

Having said that, selling second hand stuff you never realise the full amount you bought it for so it might not be worth replacing things you have that do the job now. I'd look more at not buying new stuff unless necessary and seeing whether you can cut back your feed bill by turning out more and questioning whether she needs hard feed and if so whether a cheaper brand or "straights" might work as well.

When you come to think about something new ask yourself whether you really need it and whether your horse will really notice the difference. Ask whether you can make do and mend a bit too.

Lots of horse products are designed specifically to play on our insecurities and make us feel inadequate if we don't get them the very best. Same as things for children. But ask yourself whether what the product offers will make a significant difference to your horse and remember that horses hve different priorities to us, so for example a smart new warm rug might seem a lovely treat to you but your horse would probably prefer to be unclipped and out bare if possible!
 
It can definitely still be simple! I only buy what mine really needs - she's had the same sweet iron/copper lozenge bit for about 10 years and I only just replaced it because it was starting to look worn and a bit sharp. (Then of course I did take the opportunity to get her a Myler, that she is actually going slightly better in)

She doesn't have any thick rugs, because she doesn't need them - she has a couple of hand-me down type turnouts, a couple of fleeces and a stable rug.

Although I have a bunch of boots I've picked up in various places, she doesn't need any of them having never brushed or knocked herself in her life (touch wood!) and only wears them to jump. She was overreaching a bit due to being out of work and long toe, so she's just gained some overreach boots.

She doesn't need a martingale or anything other than a plain noseband so she doesn't get any gadgets. She has always been fed a handful of chaff and a handful of mix - but since a more serious bout of lami, we've re-evaluated this and she's now getting hi-fi lite, pink powder for her vitamins and some omega oil for a bit of extra energy. I don't think constantly fiddling with their feeds is great unless there's a problem to deal with. (Normally too much/too little energy in our case!)

In reality - if they're fit and healthy, they don't care how posh their rugs or boots or tack is - that's just us adding vanity into the equation. (Although Cleo is fairly gadget free, I do like a nice bridle and lots of nice brown leather and matching saddle pads and the like). I like to keep things simple and to the really necessary.
 
My Mum gave up horses when I was born after she lost her boy to Lami. She listens to me go on about things down the stables. She moans at me for always changing things with my pony, telling me to leave her alone and that she is fine. Especially the feed thing. My pony has never reacted to a feed yet I treat her like she has every issue under the sun and then I wonder why she is putting on weight or losing weight. Mum says there was sugar beet (mollassed), bran, barley, maize and oats and chaff was a new thing back then. None of her horses were ever ill and always looked well and got fed the same all year round. The only reason her boy got lami after 15 years of ownership was because she had to move fields (this involved walking 4 horses in hand 4 miles up the road all by herself..no trailers).

Looking at photos of Mums horses (all of which lived out), look a picture of health. Mum never owned a saddle and my (non horsey) Dad even chucked a head collar on one of her horses and rode it to meet my mum from school albeit, he picked the craziest horse and it had him off 11 times on the way there! Still, no one complained and the horses were loved and enjoyed!

I think a lot of good marketing is partly to blame too. I am the worlds worse for reading something and believing that my horse would not be happy or healthy if I didnt have it!!!

So, do I sell the things I dont need and revert back to basics?? Perhaps I should try it and see if there is some huge difference in her......somehow, I dont think there will be! Perhaps just a huge difference in my expenditure!

Basic tack, 3/4 good rugs, basic feed, good hay and straw bedding......I will be rich...well almost!! lol!!
 
Yes I agree with you some things in the horse world have got over the top but is this because we have more money to spend (most of us!) and the leisure horse market is huge, we have technical and medical advances in veterinary practices which keeps horses going longer and this contributes to a knock on belief that we must feed this and that supplement, have various treatments for backs etc and then we must all have the newest bit of kit to hit the market. My mare is ridden in a 20 year old lovatt & Ricketts saddle, has 2 girths both 6 years old and a bridle that is also probably 15 years old. She hacks and hunts, has a scoop of ecomony mix and sugar beet in winter and nothing in summer, and is happy as larry.
PS whats an elevator bridle ?
 
I mentioned the same thing on here only the other day. I have owned my boy for over four years and he has gotten along fabulously. This year I have suddenly gone into panic mode, why I don't know, about this, that and the other and its very stressful. A lot of it, I think, is having a bit of a confidence crisis and taking notice of those who most definitely do not know whats best. I have had some fabulous, wonderful advice but on the other hand other people have put their two penneth worth in and totally made me confused.

I am going back to my old ways, back to my gut instinct. It hasn't let me down yet and listening to many around me and the consequences it seems much more reliable. That and also listening to the sound advice from people whose opinions I have asked.

So chill out, use your instincts, ignore what others tell you unless you ask for their opinion and enjoy.
 
I agree too. I have a vast array of stuff that I have gathered over the years and am planning a clear out. I know that for the better stuff I won;t get what its 'worth' but then what is it worth if I never use it? And for the less good stuff someone might give me a few quid and I won't have to worry about throwing usable stuff away.

I would seriously look at your feed - I assume that £70 includes hay? But seems a lot for one pony! The regular savings you can make will help your skintness. One thing I have started doing is buting cheap pony nuts instead of tiny bags of treats. I tent to give a few treats when I turn out/bring in/get off etc and you can get a whole sack of pony nuts for the price of two bags of treats!!

I also remember the days whenthe fat ponies got dry hay, a splat of full fat sugar beet and a shovel of carrots. Never did we worry about the sugar they were getting, they didn't get too fat, or laminitus, or overly silly. And if the snaffle or pelham didn't work, don;t forget the kimblewick or drop noseband - both making a comeback!!
 
I have four horses, all kept at home. I have two treeless saddles which fit everyone and 2 bridles. One is a bitless which pretty much fits everyone and one is a leather made up from bits of bridle I had lying around. I don't use a nose band and have a french link snaffle - only used for 1 horse.
They all live together, no shoes, no rugs, fed bog standard dry hay, unmolassed s/beet, cooking salt and broad spec supplement. My husband does their feet - brilliantly and they are healthy, happy and well-behaved. Just have poo-picking as I don't stable them either -happy days:)
The equine industry has done a brilliant job of creating a market for their goods and are to be admired for how clever they are at getting people to buy stuff they don't need. My friend will buy new rugs for her horse every year - unbelievable!!
 
Yes I agree with you some things in the horse world have got over the top but is this because we have more money to spend (most of us!) and the leisure horse market is huge, we have technical and medical advances in veterinary practices which keeps horses going longer and this contributes to a knock on belief that we must feed this and that supplement, have various treatments for backs etc and then we must all have the newest bit of kit to hit the market. My mare is ridden in a 20 year old lovatt & Ricketts saddle, has 2 girths both 6 years old and a bridle that is also probably 15 years old. She hacks and hunts, has a scoop of ecomony mix and sugar beet in winter and nothing in summer, and is happy as larry.
PS whats an elevator bridle ?

An Elevator has a patented design to relieve poll pressure and simulate power steering in horse........Yep, I fell for it!

Dont get me wrong, its a lovely bridle and the quality of the leather is second to none but I cant say that it has made much difference in her way of going and if I am 100% honest....she looked better in her old bridle!
 
Also - at the end of the day, I think we do now have a tendency to turn to gadgets (oh, it must be her tack!) before we look at out own riding and whether we're causing the problem! A new bit isn't going to suddenly solve all your horses issues!

As a bit of a newbie round here, it does surprise me how people seem reluctant to address problems, or even just fail to see horses as horses, with their own minds 'Oh no! He bucked once! Should I sell him?' - mine has bucked a few times over the last few weeks, but that's because she's a bit full of herself and getting fitter, not any reason to worry, if I fall off, well, that's my problem!. Or 'Oh, this bit hasn't worked, he's still ignoring me, shall I upgrade? Or add a grackle?' Try schooling!

My horse isn't perfect and she has her fair share of things I'd like to improve, but generally, she's good mannered, schools relatively well, hacks nicely and jumps a course of showjumps or a cross country course. I'm fairly certain all of that is just because, having had her from a week after she was broken, for the last 12 years, we've just tackled it all sensibly, not panicked and not just resorted to adding a gadget for every new issue. I'm not a bad rider, but I'm by no means a professional with limitless experience. It probably helps that I spent the first 20 years of my life reading every horse book I could lay my hands on!

Rushing into fences? Jump some grids, it's just common sense! Gadgets, feed changes and things can help and sometimes are essential - but I'm sure many horses who are tacked up to their eyeballs would be just as happy in a snaffle.

Sorry - this isn't at all aimed at the OP, or anyone else in particular, just something I suddenly had to get off my chest!
 
I agree too. I have a vast array of stuff that I have gathered over the years and am planning a clear out. I know that for the better stuff I won;t get what its 'worth' but then what is it worth if I never use it? And for the less good stuff someone might give me a few quid and I won't have to worry about throwing usable stuff away.

I would seriously look at your feed - I assume that £70 includes hay? But seems a lot for one pony! The regular savings you can make will help your skintness. One thing I have started doing is buting cheap pony nuts instead of tiny bags of treats. I tent to give a few treats when I turn out/bring in/get off etc and you can get a whole sack of pony nuts for the price of two bags of treats!!

I also remember the days whenthe fat ponies got dry hay, a splat of full fat sugar beet and a shovel of carrots. Never did we worry about the sugar they were getting, they didn't get too fat, or laminitus, or overly silly. And if the snaffle or pelham didn't work, don;t forget the kimblewick or drop noseband - both making a comeback!!

My feed bill is £70 per month approx in the winter and does not include hay.

Top Spec Senior £40 Lasts 2 months
16+ x2 £21
Conditioning Fibre x2 £24.60

Total £65.60!

Its ridiculous I know and tbh I cant really afford it.
 
Also - at the end of the day, I think we do now have a tendency to turn to gadgets (oh, it must be her tack!) before we look at out own riding and whether we're causing the problem! A new bit isn't going to suddenly solve all your horses issues!

As a bit of a newbie round here, it does surprise me how people seem reluctant to address problems, or even just fail to see horses as horses, with their own minds 'Oh no! He bucked once! Should I sell him?' - mine has bucked a few times over the last few weeks, but that's because she's a bit full of herself and getting fitter, not any reason to worry, if I fall off, well, that's my problem!. Or 'Oh, this bit hasn't worked, he's still ignoring me, shall I upgrade? Or add a grackle?' Try schooling!

My horse isn't perfect and she has her fair share of things I'd like to improve, but generally, she's good mannered, schools relatively well, hacks nicely and jumps a course of showjumps or a cross country course. I'm fairly certain all of that is just because, having had her from a week after she was broken, for the last 12 years, we've just tackled it all sensibly, not panicked and not just resorted to adding a gadget for every new issue. I'm not a bad rider, but I'm by no means a professional with limitless experience. It probably helps that I spent the first 20 years of my life reading every horse book I could lay my hands on!

Rushing into fences? Jump some grids, it's just common sense! Gadgets, feed changes and things can help and sometimes are essential - but I'm sure many horses who are tacked up to their eyeballs would be just as happy in a snaffle.

Sorry - this isn't at all aimed at the OP, or anyone else in particular, just something I suddenly had to get off my chest!

I completely agree.

I also see people riding in draw reins and spurs; people who are inexperienced and do not need these things. Riding lessons are the best replacement for gadgets imo!
 
Crikey. I keep two for less than that and one is not a good doer! Is your pony a native? (looking at the pic on the right of your sig) Bonkers!!
 
Rushing into fences? Jump some grids, it's just common sense! Gadgets, feed changes and things can help and sometimes are essential - but I'm sure many horses who are tacked up to their eyeballs would be just as happy in a snaffle.

Interesting. My loan horse has come with all manner of "stuff", most of which I don't have a clue what to do with! I've had no real problems riding her - she's not spooky, naughty or particulary strong when hacking, yet the bit she came with is a dutch gag. I swapped it for a snaffle yesterday and will see how we get on hacking tonight...
 
I agree. I tend to worry a bit about my horse, but having said that..I think people influence you.
As it is, we tried every kind of food on the market to calm my horse down, nothing worked. We tried bran to keep weight up (ex-racer) but molasses sent him mad. Warmblood mix, thoroughbred feeds, cooling stuff, speedi beet (dunno what the equivalent is). He is now on a cheapie food and never looked better. It turns out the food plays very little part in his behaviour. He's happy on it, even if it is low end stuff.

I've had gazillions of different farriers..found one I'm happy with but to be fair I know very little about feet and he's pretty easy so I'm sure any farrier would be fine. As it is, this farrier is fairly standard in terms of costs so it makes no difference.

I've learnt to ignore it though. My horse goes in an elliptical link snaffle and has done since I've had him. We have a pelham for showing but he hates it anyway, so we stay in the snaffle. He jumps in it, does dressage in it, goes galloping in it.

His cheap GP saddle cost about 250 quid, and it fit him better than anything to start with so we kept it. Again, he did everything in it...it doesn't put you in a good secure position, but it fit and I could afford it so we kept it. Now, my old dressage saddle fits him too so I use that for dressage and the same GP for jumping and general riding.

Same with his bridle. I bought it when I got him, a cheap run of the mill bridle. He doesn't care that it isn't a fancy imported one, and I doubt it'd make much of a difference. Same with boots. His secondhand £2 brushing boots work just as well as any other brushing boots. He does have SMB's (again, secondhand for about 5 pounds) for when the ground is bad, and a pair of tendon boots for competing in jumping given to me by a friend who quit riding.

Almost everything I own for my horse is secondhand. The bridle we bought new, but it was really cheap. Sometimes I think it'd be awesome to have him in fancy tack, and him having the best of everything might make a difference. BUt then I think that..he doesn't seem to care. There are plenty of horses out there who don't have owners obsessing about them and they seem to do fine..so I quit worrying :) I take care of him, but we don't have fancy luxury tack and the best of everything..but it doesn't affect us :)
 
Crikey. I keep two for less than that and one is not a good doer! Is your pony a native? (looking at the pic on the right of your sig) Bonkers!!

Pony in sig is same pony and she is Anglo Arab. The last pic on the right was summer 2007 and she was a bit overweight and not being fed. Last winter was the first winter she lost weight. We had her teeth done and bloods taken and all ok. Just old age! She hasnt got too porky this summer but she is looking well.

She is having chaff and pony nuts at the moment and is out 24/7 which suits and my purse perfectly. However come septemeber, I really am not sure what to do. Have thought about rugging her up, plenty of good quality hay and a simple high calorie feed that wont cost the earth.

If she has to come in, she will be on straw and not shavings.

I have had her back shoes removed as she doesnt do too much work but tbh this only saves me £20 every 8 weeks.

I think I may need to have a good sort out and become familiar with Ebay!
 
LMAO :D I love this post. OP - I call it 'my little pony syndrome' - although I fully admit that I suffer from it too :rolleyes:

The only thing I don't spend a lot on is feed, as my mare is a very good doer so a bag of mix will last us a month, easily. She has a handful when the rest of the yard gets fed ;)

I have mountains of stuff I don't need - or I did, but it is all on ebay getting sold to generate funds for a new saddle that I DO need! :D It's very satisfying having a good old clearout, and I don't much care what it all makes, cos it wasn't worth anything sat in the loft unused, was it? :D
 
My previous horse who i sold 7 yrs ago was ridden in a snaffle and flash noseband and martingale and obviously a saddle too. He had 1 string vest, one stable rug, one newzeland (full neck as he was really fine) and one summer sheet (again because he was not very hardy. He was fed tonnes as he was a poor dooer. He had as much grass as he wanted, as much hay as he could eat, he was fed cool mix, alpha alpha, and sugar beet 2 x a day all year round. And he thrived on that. None of this £50 a bag stuff just basic cool mix and your cheap and cheerfull sugar beet.
We didnt have any fancy kit, no expensive boots and bandages etc just cheap and cheerfull over reach and brushing boots.

My new horse has a fleece, a stable rug, a new zeland and a summer sheet. He is ridden in a hanging cheek french link and cavasson noseband. He has a martingale (but im assessing whether he really needs it). We have woofwear brushing boots alround and woof wear overreach boots (i normally buy rubber....but he was doing a lot of messing around when i first got him and got fed up of replacing them every ride!)
He is fed haylidge and that is it! We have no gadgets at all really and he is groomed using a rubber curry comb thats it.....silly ticklish sod!!!

To be honest.....give me half of the new gadgets and i would have no idea what to do with them!
 
LMAO :D I love this post. OP - I call it 'my little pony syndrome' - although I fully admit that I suffer from it too :rolleyes:

The only thing I don't spend a lot on is feed, as my mare is a very good doer so a bag of mix will last us a month, easily. She has a handful when the rest of the yard gets fed ;)

I have mountains of stuff I don't need - or I did, but it is all on ebay getting sold to generate funds for a new saddle that I DO need! :D It's very satisfying having a good old clearout, and I don't much care what it all makes, cos it wasn't worth anything sat in the loft unused, was it? :D

So true Milliepops! Thats it, I am going to have a clear out and start selling!

What would others do...sell the cheap bridle for pennies or keep the cheap and sell the expensive for pounds?

I have no idea how much saddles are worth. Going to have a flick through ebay me thinks!
 
Have a good look at ebay and search the completed listings to get an idea what things make, but the thing I've found is that you are more successful if you don't care that much. I have more expensive stuff that I wouldn't necessarily sell that way cos I'd be gutted if it went for a low price, but other things go for more than I expected. Most named brands do well though - a low start price and realistic p&p is inviting :D

Be warned though - it is totally addictive once you start. My house is empty :eek:
 
Have a good look at ebay and search the completed listings to get an idea what things make, but the thing I've found is that you are more successful if you don't care that much. I have more expensive stuff that I wouldn't necessarily sell that way cos I'd be gutted if it went for a low price, but other things go for more than I expected. Most named brands do well though - a low start price and realistic p&p is inviting :D

Be warned though - it is totally addictive once you start. My house is empty :eek:

Oooh, I cant wait to have a rummage through my things now! just spent 30 seconds listing items I could sell. Here we go:

Amigo Stable Rug
Rambo Stable Rug
Rambo Fly Sheet with neck cover (used once)
H/W Rambo with neck cover
H/W Rambo original turnout
Rambo Cooler (used handful of times but micky ate through it and made a little hole)

Zillions of headcollars, numnahs and boots

3 bits inc happy mouth and Sprenger

2 GP saddles (one is made by Ideal)

Elevator bridle with crank noseband and flash

Simples is definately the way to go! Challenge will be, not letting myself be influenced by others and not feeling guilty for feeding cheap feed....once I learn what that is!!!!!

Has anyone else also lost confidence as they have gotten older? I used to jump anything but now, if I do jump, its with a big breath and eyes closed!
 
Errrrrrm YUP try lost all confidence! My coblet is currently on a livery yard which is costing more than a mortgage, has just had all brand new tack and rugs, has his hay weighed, his own individual turnout paddock with reduced grass for his ever expanding waistline, various supplements and his stable poo picked around the clock.

I live in a house without central heating and running hot water and drive a clapped out car. Even my companion ponies live in a new stable block (horse had to go to livery -long story) while our new house which OH has been building for the last 10 years is unfinished!

I spend hours a month of trauma regarding lost confidence due to accident on ridiculously priced youngster I stupidly bought and now am thrilled if I manage to sit on coblet without throwing up and manage 7 strides forwards! It completely rules everything in my day and I am not even getting half the fun out of it of the rest of you guys which I should mention I am VERY jealous of!!
 
I think it all came to a head for me when I saw a poor kid suffering analysis paralysis when it came to deciding to tack up with a waterproof exercise sheet or a woollen one - for a Heinz 57 hairy unclipped pony!!!!!!

I am from the old simple school, I went crackers during some "fortunate years" on top end swank and now with 8 horses I have to be simple. I have TBs who thrive on grass nuts and hay, youngstock bursting out of their skins on rolled barley and vitamin mix. Although I have some high end tack, my favourite saddle is a 25 yo County Event saddle that seems to suit all (ok it was v.expensive in its day).

We almost took out shares in Lidl when they were selling tendon boots and fetlock boots and they are used daily, hunted in, hacked in and they have lasted years.

I will stand by Horseware outdoor rugs though but only in medium for all occasions!!!
 
Yes, but it isn't all bad.

I should think that because of the amount of information we have at our finger tips that there are a great many horses that are living longer, healthier, and more comfortable lives than they would have otherwise.

On the other hand, there are any number of the poor sods that are blinged up to their eyeballs, wearing boots and rugs they don't require, being fed rocket fuel, bitted with something they really don't need (because so-and so in the next stable says it works for her horse) strapped up, down and in just because the equipment is there to be bought from the comfort of your home or the magazines/internet/random person on a forum says so.

Each to their own, personally, I really don't give a hoot if a horse is disguised as a cow, wears rainbow coloured boots and so much diamente it looks like a circus pony, so what? If it isn't harming anything, and the cow/rainbow/bling kit functions as it should then live and let live.

I am now going to go and harrow some fields, which, as everyone knows, I shouldn't be doing right now because the sun isn't hot enough (is not out at all actually) and the worms won't be destroyed so as a parasite control exercise it is futile and I will just be spreading them for the birds to pick at:(
 
I didn't ride at all between the years of 1996-2002. When I started again I was shocked at how much more STUFF there was available for horses. I had never even seen a fly rug before, or KK or Myler bits, or half the mixes and chaffs available, or cortaflex, or magnetic leg wraps, or sports medicine type boots, elevator bridles, bendy stirrup irons, full seat breeches, air flocked saddles, three point breastplates, sheepskin lined over reach boots, or bling! Honestly. :eek::eek:
 
I think it all came to a head for me when I saw a poor kid suffering analysis paralysis when it came to deciding to tack up with a waterproof exercise sheet or a woollen one - for a Heinz 57 hairy unclipped pony!!!!!!

Analysis paralysis, I think that says it in a nut shell:D Brilliant. Too much choice is confusing.

I am thankful that all I choose to contend with is which m/w rug will fit which horse and do I really need a new one if I sew the rips in that one up and pinch a couple of buckles off the one the dogs sleep on?
 
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