Anyone know any Dun (not Buckskin) Stallions at stud 15hh mark?

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Cpt Stumpy

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I'm looking for dun stallions (only found one) standing in the UK

Ideally middle-weight, Super-Ideally Chestnut based.

But all I can find when I use search engines are Buckskins :mad:
 
Grullos, so sadly not Chestnut Dun - which I agree is a super colour.

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_13899.html

http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_36143.html

Highlands might be an option as they do carry the true Dun gene, but finding one without grey is a challenge.

http://www.bapsh.co.uk/Breeding/Stallions/Colours/stColour.html scroll down to Mejicano XXIX, they have his DNA results up and he's Ee aa DD, so 50% chance of passing on chestnut and 100% chance of passing on Dun.
 
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That's Janet, but when you google 'dun stallions at stud' you get a list of buckskins, I've sifted though enough to give up now.

and thanks Faracat, Mejicano might be a second best but he's a bit tall 15.3hh
its to go over a 14.2hh Cremello (e/e A/A Cr/Cr) I'm thinking of breeding for a dunalino
Majicano would give me 50/50 Dunalino or Dunskin.
Thankyou
 
Yep and with Welshies too.

ETA - I think the Blue Moon horse is another Buckskin looking at his photo, oh yes, look at his progeny, he's sired a palomino out of a chestnut mare. Buckskin!
 
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Fjords carry Cream and Pangare genes, I wanted to avoid Pangare if possible it dilutes chestnut, and my aim was for a Dunalino

Though it may come to some surprise 4 pure welsh (a's) have tested positive for Dun! I believe 3 are chestnut one is black, all female, all hetrozygous. one breeder has her's in foal the others are empty this year. no colts have been found with the dun gene yet though :( there is a little group of them on facebook trying to preserve the last welsh dun's and educate other welsh breeders in a attempt to locate and preserve the last of the dun welsh ponies.

That was a good find but Millpark horses are in my cremelo's bloodline, i'll have to look into them make sure any offspring wouldn't be inbred
 
I too would suggest a Highland especially if you are looking for middlewieght.

I cannot remember if he was Dun or Bay but look at Stirlingdene, who was supreme M&M stallion at HOYS a few years back. His sire Fyfedene was BOB at HOYS and grey.
 
Faracat said:
R - he's stunning and looks to be bay dun to me. :)
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I could not remember. I used to keep one of my CB mares at Ballinton stud when we did not have room at home. That is how I know so much about Scott McGregor's breeding, my own Highland came from him.

I do know Scott bred some super dun ponies. What about the people on Speyside who were on Countryfile on Sunday? (He also used to stand a CB stallion)
 
Quite a few nice Highland stallions in dun about

Yellow dun is bay dun and Mouse dun is black dun (look up Carlung Feargus).

You'd get a lovely temperament and a very stocky pony.

I have yet to see a chestnut highland. The gene surely exists but if it does it's masked by black or grey.
 
I had been looking down the highland route for a while, I joined the facebook group in hopes of hunting down a Fox Dun (highlands name for a chestnut dun) but no luck. I've met people who once owned mares, but none of them new of anyone today that owned a chestnut dun, let alone a boy one.

I can't believe a chestnut dun stallion is so hard to find :/
 
I like Azures Tuff Te. From reading the details, I think he's heterozygous for Dun.

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Kallibear said:
Quite a few nice Highland stallions in dun about

Yellow dun is bay dun and Mouse dun is black dun (look up Carlung Feargus).

You'd get a lovely temperament and a very stocky pony.

I have yet to see a chestnut highland. The gene surely exists but if it does it's masked by black or grey.
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I looked him up. His grandsire is Major of Whitfield, grandsire to my own pony, who is by the way a Cream Dun. I have never seen another.
 
Feargus is our Highland pony's dad and the dad of friend's foal. The mare is going back to him this spring. Lovely pony.

He's one of the few older black dun stallions around but there's quite a few very nice younger colts coming through.
I don't know if he's double or single dun but AFAIK, all his foals have been dun.

You've not seen cream dun before? It's really common in highland ponies and is yellow (bay) dun with grey, so they go a pale cream colour until they completely grey. Usually. From experience most HiPo owners just call them what ever they feel like ;)

The naming of HiPo duns is odd and not standardised because, until recently, there was little or no interest in the genetics of base colour and grey and dun genes. There still isn't: most breeders couldn't tell you their broodstocks true genetic colour. My friend had his mare tested for grey before he bred her (she's homozygous grey so was worth going for a non grey stallion) and also his filly , who's non grey, to his delight). Most HiPo owners and breeders just look at him strangely when he mentions it ;)

Another friend has a mare who MIGHT be fox (chestnut) dun (she's a very odd bay dun otherwise, with darker but not black legs) The line apparently has had full chestnuts in the distant past. She's gorgeous but sadly has a white sock and obvious star (also know in the line but often hidden by grey gene) so no good to show. I'm going to persuade her to get the pony tested.
 
KB - I've asked on here before if cream dun involved the grey gene and was told 'no' even though the pony looked grey to me. It's good to hear that I wasn't going mad, as it really confused me, I was wracking my brain thinking 'if grey isn't involved what on earth is?'
 
Faracat said:
KB - I've asked on here before if cream dun involved the grey gene and was told 'no' even though the pony looked grey to me. It's good to hear that I wasn't going mad, as it really confused me, I was wracking my brain thinking 'if grey isn't involved what on earth is?'
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You'll hear all sorts of rubbish about Highland Pony colouring because most owners/breeders know nothing about colour genetics. Ask them if they're homozygous or heterozygous (or even just single or double) gene for grey and they think you're nuts.

Cream dun can really be any colour that looks 'cream' coloured! Grey dun is usually a black dun that's greying out. Cream dun is usually bay dun that's greying out. But it could also be chestnut dun that's greying. I suppose that's why chestnut has somehow got 'lost' over the years. God forbid if you asked someone if their black highland pony (there are quite a few nowadays) is double black or is chestnut/black! And grey is so prevalent an strong that there could be all sorts of colours hiding, they've just never been properly researched and tested. It's make a fascinating project.

I don't think there's any cream genes (actual cream, not 'cream dun' ) in Highlands as you never see palominos or cremello's or dunalinos etc. There is however some silvery stuff about in the Island ponies. And possibly panguare (sp?) as there's plenty of mealy muzzels about. It's at that point my knowledge of genetics run out!
 
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This is cream dun. He'll go much lighter until he's just got a slightly yellow tinge, than be completely white.

1268451_10153192319115437_1374664551_o.jpg


Fergus (by Carlung Feargus) is an unusual yellow dun. Very pale body with an almost black dun face. They're usually much more golden. He's got lovely zebra striping though! They're REALLY obvious at certain times of year.
 
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Really interesting thread. My 'cream' dun looks dapple grey to me, which is probably why I have never seen another!!

I only know he is cream dun, because he was born in Germany, purchased by Scott McGregor as a yearling and brought back to Ballinton. (Hs other grandsire is Eagledene) HPS papers say he is a cream dun.

My Shagya Arabs are Grey Truite (trout) in the French Stud Book but Bay Roan in the Hungarian Stud book.

As we know a rose will smell as sweet by any other name.
 
Really interesting thread - I feel really ignorant as had no idea of the various 'strains' of dun. OP do you have a photo of a chestnut dun we could see ? I know there is one somewhere in this thread, but it just looks chestnut to me, so would like to understand the difference if possible ? I seem to recall a chestnut dun horse advertised here >>>> a couple of days ago.
 
Rollin said:
Really interesting thread. My 'cream' dun looks dapple grey to me, which is probably why I have never seen another!!

I only know he is cream dun, because he was born in Germany, purchased by Scott McGregor as a yearling and brought back to Ballinton. (Hs other grandsire is Eagledene) HPS papers say he is a cream dun.

My Shagya Arabs are Grey Truite (trout) in the French Stud Book but Bay Roan in the Hungarian Stud book.

As we know a rose will smell as sweet by any other name.
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Like this?

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This is also a cream dun (pretty sure, although I don't know what colour it was as a baby). It's got the yellow tinge left from the bay but unlike the first cream dun, it's got the dapple gene as well as the grey gene. Over time it will loose the yellow tinge but will probably hold it's dapples for longer, making it look just plain dappled grey.

This is a dapple grey Highland without the dun gene. They're actually fairly rare as the dun gene is so prevalent. Very similar to the dappled cream dun but without the tinge (she's actually 3/4 sister to the dappled cream dun)

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Grr, can't get the last picture to work!
 
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Bestdogdash said:
Really interesting thread - I feel really ignorant as had no idea of the various 'strains' of dun. OP do you have a photo of a chestnut dun we could see ? I know there is one somewhere in this thread, but it just looks chestnut to me, so would like to understand the difference if possible ? I seem to recall a chestnut dun horse advertised here >>>> a couple of days ago.
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The stallion I posted in post 15 is a chestnut dun

Rollin, Cream Dun is black + Agouti + Dun + grey and anything with grey is usually called 'grey' regardless of the base colour. However it is always useful to know the base colour, so Grey (Bay Dun) is more accurate IMO. Using the word cream is confusing because there is a colour gene called Cream.
 
ester said:
And HPS papers probably mean nothing colour wise as they do seem to make it up a bit ;)
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They absolutely do just make up colours as they go along. I've seen biscuit duns. A chocolate dun. Mushroom dun. It's surprising and a little sad how little interest is taken in colour genetics for the HP. I once had a 20min argument with a couple of serious HiPo owners/breeders/show-ers about buckskins and duns. When I'm old and fogey and can't cope with proper horses I'm going to aim to bred a true chestnut HiPo.
 
Faracat said:
The stallion I posted in post 15 is a chestnut dun

Rollin, Cream Dun is black + Agouti + Dun + grey and anything with grey is usually called 'grey' regardless of the base colour. However it is always useful to know the base colour, so Grey (Bay Dun) is more accurate IMO. Using the word cream is confusing because there is a colour gene called Cream.
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Sadly it would probably just be easier if they were called plain 'grey' but in highland pony land it's not so simple. There's very few true pure greys, most are dun too. Grey bay dun would be too confusing when there's also grey dun. And bay due is in fact called yellow dun. But a yellow dun going grey is called a cream dun. And a grey dun is actually a mouse dun going grey. But mouse is really black dun. Where 'mouse' came from, god knows!
 
I would argue that having the dun gene is irrelevant as anything with grey will grey out over time (apart from double dilutes as they don't really have pigment to lose), dun or not. A Silver bay splashed white with grey, is still going to grey out after all. So the question is, what is a 'pure grey'? Are only chestnuts and blacks with no other modifying genes capable of being 'pure greys'? So a bay horse that greys out isn't pure, even if it ends up white furred, just like the 'no other modifying genes' horses? So I would say that regardless of what base colour it is, having a grey gene makes calling it 'grey' perfectly acceptable. :) Interesting thoughts.

I do agree that their names are misleading and are also a bit dated these days.
 
When I visited Whitefield Highland Ponies in January he had a chesnut yearling. Cannot remember if he said it was a filly or colt. He was very surprised at the colouring though. Not sure if this would be classed as a Chesnut dun? I don't know anything about the colour genetics but just remembered him saying :)
 
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