Anyone's yards on lockdown (flu) ???

[Tiddlypom]

4.7uf

My post stated 2 seperate hunts with 2 seperate policies......!!!!

My bad, you wrote 'Warwickshire', I read 'Worcestershire', oops. Apologies both to you and to the Warwickshire Hunt.

Well done them. Let's hope that all other packs are now doing the same.

 

[AGray825]

We're on a self-imposed lockdown right now. We're a private yard (just me and my mum and 4 horses between us) and I'm not taking mine out to any clinics/competitions until they're vaccinations are fully up-to-date (and vets are so busy right now that trying to get one out to do 4 in one go is a nightmare)
Gotta see, though, what Rossdale's protocol is because mum's horses vaccinations aren't up-to-date right now (vets coming out for just her this week) and they want her in next week for KS surgery :/ I rather suspect they'll delay the surgery until our entire yard is fully vaccinated
My youngster's gotta be done quite soon because he's about to be sent away for backing and I don't want to delay that anymore than I have to!

EDIT: forgot to mention that we're on the Cambs/Norfolk border and there's been recent confirmed cases in Norfolk so....

 

[JulesRules]

And here is an example of the very reason why the disease is not being successfully contained. Owners who are only thinking about their own horse. 'Your' horse may well be vaccinated, 'your' horse may only be mildly unwell if he is unfortunate enough to come into contact with the disease. BUT, lets think about what 'your' horse can do to others. 'Your' horse can carry the disease back to others, those others can spread it to others, some may be mildly affected, some maybe very sick. Some will cost a small fortune to get well again.

There is a hunter hireling yard in the Midands, that has 15 positive horses in the yard. The yard has been very honest and open about their sad situation and has made sure they have let everyone know. Let's think about the logistics of this. Those hunter hireling horses may have been hired to people to hunt across 5 different pack of hounds. The average Saturday field will be 100 horses, all in contact with a flu carrier. Those one hundred horses all go home to let's say, 50 different yards. In those 50 yards is another quantity of horses. In those yards are owners who have no regard, understanding or interest in how EF spreads, so off they go to the dressage and meet up with another load of horses and so the disease continues.

I fail to see why owners cannot see the bigger picture. Facebook is covered with owners stating their horse is fine, so lets crack on. Maybe it is inexperience, maybe it is 'head in the sand' attitude, or maybe it is just 'I am alright and xxx the rest of you.

Or maybe I've assessed the risks to all and they are low?

A horse vaccinated within the last 6 months, travelling to a competition venue only accepting horses vaccinated within the last 6 months with passports being checked, travelling from a yard where all the horses are vaccinated and staying on the lorry in between classes is not a high risk.

As others have pointed out there is no point people having their own private lockdown. I would support a whole equestrian industry period of lock down if that is what is required.

In the meantime I shall only venture out in controlled conditions following the guidance of my vet and industry experts.

I don't think it's responsible owners like me who are the problem. Perhaps if you took stock you might agree and apologise!

 

[Ambers Echo]

Or maybe some people feel that following the official advice of the BEF and of my own vet practice who both state that if horses are vaccinated and are only travelling to places with other vaccinated horses, then restricting movement is NOT NECESSARY. They don't say 'low risk' or 'acceptable risk' they say 'not necessary' because the disease just does not spread among vaccinated horses.

I think my vet may know how EF is transmitted, no?

A vaccinated horse CAN get ill from an acutely unwell unvaccinated one, but even then it will shed so little virus that it will only infect another unvaccinated one. It will not infect a protected horse. This didease is being and will continie to be spread by unvaccinated horses passing it to other unvaccinated horses.

Like JR above I am not the problem.

 

[oldie48]

I have to agree with JR and AE, restricting movement is not the answer, having more vaccinated horses is. If you look through the AHT it is really telling, the main source of infection is unvaccinated horses, particularly those being imported from Ireland or "newly acquired" there were outbreaks back in January but who knew about that? It was the link to racing that brought it into the news, there are always cases of EI all round the country but we just don't know about them. I will also continue to follow the AHT advice and have also decided to get Rose's vacc done 6 monthly.

 

[Red-1]

Or maybe some people feel that following the official advice of the BEF and of my own vet practice who both state that if horses are vaccinated and are only travelling to places with other vaccinated horses, then restricting movement is NOT NECESSARY. They don't say 'low risk' or 'acceptable risk' they say 'not necessary' because the disease just does not spread among vaccinated horses.

I think my vet may know how EF is transmitted, no?

A vaccinated horse CAN get ill from an acutely unwell unvaccinated one, but even then it will shed so little virus that it will only infect another unvaccinated one. It will not infect a protected horse. This didease is being and will continie to be spread by unvaccinated horses passing it to other unvaccinated horses.

Like JR above I am not the problem.

Having discussed at length the sensible options with my vet, this is what I was told too. I got mine re-vaccinated the day after I heard about all this and have only gone to venues where all horses have records checked before offloading.

I accept that mine is unlikely to be infected by one that is vaccinated, as they shed less virus. If I did somehow get infected (either through unlikely luck or more likely that someone is by-passing the vaccination with the wrong passport) then mine is less likely to be ill, plus she is unlikely to pass it on as she is 6 month vaccinated so won't shed much virus.

I am avoiding those who don't vaccinate the best I can, sadly some do hack past us. They are more likely to get it, and if they do they will be shedding virus left, right and centre.

It seems to me that the hunt are very much to blame, having hoards of horses with no vaccination protocol or check, mixing horses who are becoming exhausted / breathing hard and spreading it round the countryside.

I would not be happy to have my vet's professionalism or my own care for my horse questioned.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Because all racehorses are now vaccinated and are being checked before they get off the lorry. And the racing industry has put all yards into risk groups and restricted whether each group can race or not. The leisure market is not nearly so well organised.

spoke to my vets and another vet, both just said be careful and it is up to yards if they want to lock down at the moment, so I am guided by them.

 

[NinjaPony]

All continuing as normal here (north kent) but all horses are getting a booster injection if they haven't had one for 6 months. I'm competing next week, but the venue have stated only horses with proof of up to date vaccinations will be allowed to compete, and are asking for passport proof to be sent in advance. No cases anywhere near me, but precautions are sensible.

 

[Shooting Star]

A vaccinated horse CAN get ill from an acutely unwell unvaccinated one, but even then it will shed so little virus that it will only infect another unvaccinated one. It will not infect a protected horse. This didease is being and will continie to be spread by unvaccinated horses passing it to other unvaccinated horses.

Like JR above I am not the problem.

Sadly this is not true, the whole reason why the racing world spread the word of this issue is because there were multiple cases on a handful of yards. All racers are vaccinated and not all that were infected on any given yard were at the same races therefore it HAS been spread between vaccinated horses on the same premises. Look at cases 9, 12 & 13 as examples from the AHT.

https://www.aht.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Equiflunet-update-21-02-19.pdf

We are all within our own rights to follow whatever precautions we choose but to state that because your horse is vaccinated it won’t infect other vaccinated horses is incorrect.

 

[Ambers Echo]

The cases you cite are the 10 horses on 2 racing yards. No links between those yards. So the original 6 did not spread it to the 4. The 4 were asymptomatic so it seems likely all 4 picked it up off a very infectious source rather than off each other. I think the real story from racing is how good vaccination is! 10 horses in over 2000 samples and no spread from those 2 yards despite them being in very close contact with other horses. Compare that to what has happened in hunting.

It is certainly possible for vaccinated horses to get ill if bombarded with virus. It is highly unlikely (but not impossible) for them to pass it on to another vaccinated horse. But even accepting the risk is not zero, the disease still can't spread that way because for it to spread a series of highly unlikely but not impossible things have to happen in a row. And that just doesn't happen as the risks decrease exponentially. Getting 3 numbers in the lottery is 1 in 54. Getting 6 is 1 in over 45 million.

So on a case by case basis, spread is not impossible between vaccinated horses but on a population basis it won't happen.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I would not be happy to have my vet's professionalism or my own care for my horse questioned

Red-1, this sounds like a 'Don't you know who I am?' , I'm surprised it came from you.

Why wouldn't you be happy to politely query your vet's advice to evaluate other options, or to consider whether your care for your horse couldn't be tweaked for the better? All of us should, all the time. And we all know of less-than-good vets, and owners.

ETA As I've said before, it was the competition and hunting junkies who still headed out in the early days of the outbreak that I had most issues with, even if their animals were vaccinated. As the outbreak has progressed, it is becoming clearer that the vaccinations are giving greater protection than was first feared, so the situation has changed now.

 

[Ambers Echo]

ETA the 4 horses identified in racing were only screened because they had been in contact with ill horses who turned out not to have flu anyway. As people do not screen healthy horses they would never normally have been picked up in the first place. So it seems probable that in any given sample of thousands of race horses, a few will have flu virus present but they don't get ill or pass it on so no-one is any the wiser.

This outbreak is being spread and will continue to be spread by unvaccinated horses passing it to other unvaccinated horses with some vaccinated ones getting caught in the crossfire.

I did not read Red's comment as 'don't you know who I am.' The AA post JR quoted was very judgemental against people and their vets who are following BEF and AHT advice to the letter, claiming we only care about ourselves. Rather than we trust our vets and the BEF guidance and our own assessments of risk. I also felt irked by that as having my judgement and motives questioned in that way is uncalled for imo. As I have said many times people should educate themselves, read the advice, speak to their vets - and then make their own minds up. But not assume that everyone who weighs risks up differently to themselves is selfish, ignorant or irresponsible.

 

[Red-1]

Red-1, this sounds like a 'Don't you know who I am?' , I'm surprised it came from you.

I did not read Red's comment as 'don't you know who I am.' The AA post JR quoted was very judgemental against people and their vets who are following BEF and AHT advice to the letter, claiming we only care about ourselves. Rather than we trust our vets and the BEF guidance and our own assessments of risk. I also felt irked by that as having my judgement and motives questioned in that way is uncalled for imo. As I have said many times people should educate themselves, read the advice, speak to their vets - and then make their own minds up. But not assume that everyone who weighs risks up differently to themselves is selfish, ignorant or irresponsible.

I did not mean that at all as Tiddlypom read it, if I thought that I would not have been on the phone to my vet within 1/2 an hour of reading about the racing yard, or my own horse re-vaccinated less than 24 hours later, or indeed reading up on cases each time before my horse leaves the yard. It is so I can re-evaluate my risk management before I leave the (relative) safety of my yard, even though I am powerless to stop un-vaccinated horses hacking past.

Amber's Echo read it more as I intended.

Unless it is legislated for I agree with AE that we all read/call/look up what information there is and make our own decisions.

Today we were hiring an arena. However, the arena owners/livery yard is a hunting yard. So, with a case in Yorkshire, we are not going. Today we are staying at home. I could go to another dressage competition (where vaccination records are being inspected), but until the dust settles on the latest Yorkshire case we will avoid even that. We are also sticking to 'local' competitions, but that is also because TBH that is all we are ready for .

So, that is my risk/threat assessment at the moment. But, I don't think other people with a different perspective are wrong, unless they are disregarding current official advice, such as the various hunts who are not checking vaccination status.

It seems counterproductive to criticise someone for following BEF, AHT and FEI advice.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Tiddlypom I am totally with you on hunting!!

 

[Bernster]

Slightly off thread but same topic, and not wanting to open another one! How does this year compare to past experience? Is this worse than previous episodes of equine flu and by how much?

As it’s non notifiable I assume there aren’t formal records, but vets practices will know based on their workloads etc so presumably there is some info available? My ins said that the vets she’d spoken to had said it’s pretty much the same level as in past years so the risk is no greater, the cases aren’t more extensive, but the awareness is heightened.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

All continuing as normal here (north kent) but all horses are getting a booster injection if they haven't had one for 6 months. I'm competing next week, but the venue have stated only horses with proof of up to date vaccinations will be allowed to compete, and are asking for passport proof to be sent in advance. No cases anywhere near me, but precautions are sensible.

Unfortunately, some idiots round here have kyboshed the passport proof in advance, as they have been copying a correct flu vacc , but adding their own front page!
Means passports are now thoroughly checked on arrival, no correct info, no unload and go home! Good!

 

[Bernster]

Jeez, some folks ! So that means poor old over stretched venues might have to check in advance and on the day to make sure you bring the right horse with a correct record. Why would people go to those lengths! Just get your horse jabbed, wait a week (if it’s the booster) and off you go.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Slightly off thread but same topic, and not wanting to open another one! How does this year compare to past experience? Is this worse than previous episodes of equine flu and by how much?

As it’s non notifiable I assume there aren’t formal records, but vets practices will know based on their workloads etc so presumably there is some info available? My ins said that the vets she’d spoken to had said it’s pretty much the same level as in past years so the risk is no greater, the cases aren’t more extensive, but the awareness is heightened.

My vet said it is up on previous years. But has been since well before the racing issue which brought it into the headlines. He issued a flu alert back in early January. He also says there is no need to worry if horses are correctly vaccinated - they may get ill if exposed to a horse who is shedding masses of virus but they won't further the spread themselves and will be far less ill also.

I personally feel my horses are safest when I am at a competition venue knowing that everyone around me acts as a flu barrier! At home we are near lots of yards. Given the 40% vaccination rate I suspect if mine do get it it will be contracted from a passing unvaccinated horse while standing in their field at home.

 

[oldie48]

Jeez, some folks ! So that means poor old over stretched venues might have to check in advance and on the day to make sure you bring the right horse with a correct record. Why would people go to those lengths! Just get your horse jabbed, wait a week (if it’s the booster) and off you go.

The venue I went to on Thursday were checking very thoroughly, sent home a lorry with 4 horses on board but only three passports and had someone earlier in the week show passports for two grey mares but had two bay geldings on the lorry so were checking names of horses against the entry list which obviously works well for pre entry comps. They had also re-thought the parking so lorries were more spread out and would not allow anything to be tied up outside. I was very mpressed and felt it would be wrong not to support venues that are putting in effective measures as we are never going to be in a situation with no EI out there somewhere. Venues have to work hard to be viable and we have lost several in recent years.

 

[AJHORSE]

Nope. In the borders.

 

[oldie48]

There is a case in Cornwall, a recently imported horse from Ireland. Just wondered if those H&Hs in Ireland have something like our AHT reports and how many outbreaks there are in the Emerald Isle.
edited to say horse was unvaccinated