Anyone's yards on lockdown (flu) ???

[Cowpony]

If you really believe this, then why do you think racing is back on ? Or do you think it shouldn’t be ?

Because all racehorses are now vaccinated and are being checked before they get off the lorry. And the racing industry has put all yards into risk groups and restricted whether each group can race or not. The leisure market is not nearly so well organised.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Because all racehorses are now vaccinated and are being checked before they get off the lorry. And the racing industry has put all yards into risk groups and restricted whether each group can race or not. The leisure market is not nearly so well organised.

Exactly. Racing is regulated, racehorses will be having temps taken each end of the day. Many big yards have resident vets and obviously, highly experienced staff. The spread could have been contained in racing now with the combination of the shut down, bio security and not sharing gallops/transport etc.

The leisure industry is totally different with huge numbers of unvaccinated horses moving around the country at any given time. Flu and other respiratory virus is ever present but not in the numbers we are seeing this winter. The vets are working hard to keep all of our horses safe and healthy, but we as owners should be proactive and not be moving horses around until the positive cases slow right down or cease.

 

[be positive]

Exactly. Racing is regulated, racehorses will be having temps taken each end of the day. Many big yards have resident vets and obviously, highly experienced staff. The spread could have been contained in racing now with the combination of the shut down, bio security and not sharing gallops/transport etc.

The leisure industry is totally different with huge numbers of unvaccinated horses moving around the country at any given time. Flu and other respiratory virus is ever present but not in the numbers we are seeing this winter. The vets are working hard to keep all of our horses safe and healthy, but we as owners should be proactive and not be moving horses around until the positive cases slow right down or cease.

I have stopped my liveries going out competing, not that they have much choice as the venues have closed due to a local case, I have delayed 2 liveries coming in today even though the risk is low to my mind if all unnecessary movement was stopped it would be so much more easily contained.

Racing did the right thing and took the time required to test, monitor the situation and get bio security tightened up so it can continue but most racehorses are not mixing with the general equine population so it should be easier to keep it from spreading, they may have acted in haste but should reap the benefit while the rest of us may find it continues for several months if we are not more proactive.

 

[EventingMum]

And here is an example of the very reason why the disease is not being successfully contained. Owners who are only thinking about their own horse. 'Your' horse may well be vaccinated, 'your' horse may only be mildly unwell if he is unfortunate enough to come into contact with the disease. BUT, lets think about what 'your' horse can do to others. 'Your' horse can carry the disease back to others, those others can spread it to others, some may be mildly affected, some maybe very sick. Some will cost a small fortune to get well again.

There is a hunter hireling yard in the Midands, that has 15 positive horses in the yard. The yard has been very honest and open about their sad situation and has made sure they have let everyone know. Let's think about the logistics of this. Those hunter hireling horses may have been hired to people to hunt across 5 different pack of hounds. The average Saturday field will be 100 horses, all in contact with a flu carrier. Those one hundred horses all go home to let's say, 50 different yards. In those 50 yards is another quantity of horses. In those yards are owners who have no regard, understanding or interest in how EF spreads, so off they go to the dressage and meet up with another load of horses and so the disease continues.

I fail to see why owners cannot see the bigger picture. Facebook is covered with owners stating their horse is fine, so lets crack on. Maybe it is inexperience, maybe it is 'head in the sand' attitude, or maybe it is just 'I am alright and xxx the rest of you.

Totally agree.

 

[tristar]

thanks adorable alice for saying what needs to be said, agree with every word, i hope it makes others think twice before going out so we can contain this soon as poss

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Plus you dont get normal horses at race meetings so their contact with the outside world is almost 0. I am sure all staff that havd their own horses have been instructed to have a completely different set of kit for work and home. I know I do and have always done. Its sensible really.

 

[Leo Walker]

Its not even been mentioned on my yard sadly. The showjumping ponies in the stables either side of mine are off to Scotland this weekend competing. Bobbie has had her booster vaccination and is turned out in the field 500ms away from the yard until further notice so I'm hoping it will be ok.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I spoke with the YM today and she’s not stopping anyone leaving as the yard is so small with so many horses grazing within distance of each other on other yards and so many people hack down past ours. We are a small closed yard anyway and only four of our horses are of riding age.

I don’t touch other people’s hirses when I’m out anyway and don’t Let my guy touch anyone else’s nor do I tie up outside my trailer and leave him or share equipment.

All outs have been jabbed in the last 6months anyway. Flu isn’t a new thing so I’m another in the camp of wondering what the fuss is all about.

 

[DabDab]

Exactly. Racing is regulated, racehorses will be having temps taken each end of the day. Many big yards have resident vets and obviously, highly experienced staff. The spread could have been contained in racing now with the combination of the shut down, bio security and not sharing gallops/transport etc.

The leisure industry is totally different with huge numbers of unvaccinated horses moving around the country at any given time. Flu and other respiratory virus is ever present but not in the numbers we are seeing this winter. The vets are working hard to keep all of our horses safe and healthy, but we as owners should be proactive and not be moving horses around until the positive cases slow right down or cease.

Absolutely - racing reacted fast and made sure pretty much every horse that will be out and about racing in the next few months has been tested. This is responsible.

At the same time many many people on here and elsewhere expressed concern about continuing with hunting, given the propensity of that activity to spread an infectious air borne disease. However, most did not stop and now there are hunting related cases all over the place. If everyone could just stop where they are for a couple of weeks it would really make a massive difference.

 

[whiteflower]

Mine now is, too many cases getting closer and closer to home. Just seen a post from a yard in Norfolk that they have a case.of flu confirmed today and apparently had a dressage show their today too....

 

[Ambers Echo]

I really don't understand why the focus is on restriction of movement and not on the very low vaccination rates in horses. Fair enough some people are doing both but there are plenty of threads about stopping plans voluntarily or compulsory yard lock-downs and very few on encouraging people to vaccinate. Pretty much all the sick leisure horses have been unvaccinated. From the webpage of an Irish vet:

" Basically the flu is a bit like the rain in Ireland.... there’s always some somewhere.
Whether or not you get wet depends on how good your jacket is...... what level of protection you have.
Some people always have a jacket in the car, and a spare and maybe even a spare spare, or an umbrella ☔️. Think international horses eventers, jumpers, ones with full wardrobes and 6 month vaccinations.
Then there’s the racing crowd. One good jacket in the car all year round, just like their one sturdy annual vaccination. You’ll survive most weather but not the absolutely torrential horizontal rain type day. You know the one.
Everyone else is pretty much a motley mix of top notch insulation, to jackets with the odd leaky seam. Depending on how much rain you get you could be anywhere between lucky between showers, to damp, to absolutely soaking to your knickers.
But there’s always a few who forget to have any kind of a jacket at all. And then get surprised that they get wet 🤷🏻‍♀️. "

If I were a YO I would insist on vaccinations far sooner than insisting on restricting movement as the former is far better protection for ALL horses than the latter. I would not compete anywhere that was not insisting on vaccinations. I am steering clear of unaff venues and I would not dream of hunting now I know they don't check. But it's the unvaccinated horses that I feel nervous of not the fully protected ones. Mild forms of flu in vaccinated horses mean far less virus being shed. Being out and about is just not the problem - unvaccinated horses causing low herd immunity is.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Mine are staying put and have had their boosters, but the Hunt often comes up the hill behind the field my horses are in. Nothing I can do about it sadly.

 

[ycbm]

If you really believe this, then why do you think racing is back on ? Or do you think it shouldn’t be ?

Racing is back on because all horses in any possible contact with an infected horse have been tested, race horses mix only with race horses in closed yards, and the supervision is second to none.

I wouldn't trust half my local horse owners to spot an infected horse if it blew yellow snot straight in their eye.


.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Racing is back on because all horses in any possible contact with an infected horse have been tested, race horses mix only with race horses in closed yards, and the supervision is second to none.

I wouldn't trust half my local horse owners to spot an infected horse if it blew yellow snot straight in their eye.


.

Seconded !

 

[PapaverFollis]

Vaccination is obviously the answer overall to prevent outbreaks. But during an active outbreak the only sensible course of action is lockdown. It's endemic but the level of risk changes. Currently risk is high. It is not always high.

 

[Ambers Echo]

The current risk is still low. Flu remains rare. It is on the up but an increase in a very low risk is still a very low risk. In my view, the trouble with all this talk of lock downs etc is it is a total distraction from the real problem of chronically low vaccination rates. People talk about a 2-3 week period of staying home till it's 'over'. It won't ever be over. Flu is around every year and given that it is airborne, staying home does not really help all that much. Whereas vaccination protects your own horse and horses in general. Fewer than 40% of UK horses are vaccinated. That's insane. The risk is that people stay home for a while with all the current attention then eventually just start going back out again but still don't vaccinate which means we will be back in this situation again soon enough.

An unvaccinated horse is at risk and if it gets ill it will get VERY ill, and will shed huge amounts of air-borne virus and so present a risk to everyone else. A vaccinated one out competing isn't anywhere near as at risk nor does it presents anywhere near the same level of risk to others.

The official guidance is all about the vaccinations and is saying cancelling events is not necessary as long as participants are vaccinated. But on social media the focus is totally the other way around which is just weird.

If anything good comes of this, perhaps it will be that more people actually start protecting their horses better long term.

 

[DabDab]

AE - you are saying that it is low risk based on statistics. But the statistics become less favourable the more it's spread around. I'm not sure it is a great way to look at an infectious disease, because by the time it gets bad enough for the statistics to reach whatever level, then the damage will already be done, so it's a bit late to react.

A shut down for a couple of weeks with a big push on vaccinations in that time would have probably nipped it all in the bud. And I really struggle to work out why people find the idea of something like that objectionable?

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Our yard has stopped folk travelling to compete and stopped visitors and we ve been asked not to visit other yards for the time being..although this was the day after a really busy day of visitors for the yard.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I don't object to people staying at home. As I said on a previous thread the absolute safest option is both the vaccinate AND to stay at home - assuming everyone on the yard is also vaccinated.

I saw risks are low for me and my horses because I have vaccinated horses who live with vaccinated horses and go to places where all the horses are vaccinated. And if you read the AHT trust updates the pattern is depressingly predictable: you have the odd rare cases of flu in a vaccinated horse who does not seem ill or is only mildly ill and the other horses in contact are vaccinated and are well..... Versus far more cases of acutely ill unvaccinated horses, with exposures of other unvaccinated horses half of whom are now also ill..... People like me are not the problem!

My objection is with people telling me that I should also stay at home or yards that lock down without any illness or known exposure. Because this tells me that people's perception of risk is skewed which in turn means that people do what feels emotionally right (stay home, stay safe!) instead of following the evidence based and objective official guidance of the regulatory bodies and the vets. And that in turn means the real risk of flu will stay unchanged because once the attention has moved on, people will forget about it and carry on as before.

If this really does turn into a major flu outbreak, the spread will not be being facilitated by the vaccinated horse population whether we go anywhere or not because a) we are much less likely to get it and b) our viral load will be a fraction of the viral load of unvaccinated horses so we are far less likely to spread it if we do get it. It will be almost entirely spread - as it is doing now - by unvaccinated horses infecting other unvaccinated horses. Which is why the guidance is all about vaccs and only about restriction of movement to restrict known exposure not a blanket restriction. That makes perfect sense to me as it focuses attention on the major risk factors and so that is what I am doing.

But I have seen posts by people who don't vaccinate saying people who are not on lock down are irresponsible, and posts on yards who focus on lock down of their unvaccinated horses but not on vaccination and posts calling the regulatory bodies irresponsible for not cancelling competitions and posts saying the vaccines don't work and are pointless. I have not seen anywhere near the same level of attention on the unvaccinated horse population or anything like a proportionate degree of challenge directed at anti-vaxxers. Given that fewer than 40% of horses are vaccinated in the UK I wonder how many people who are choosing to stay home also have unvaccinated horses. They are being far far more irresponsible that I am - though obviously not intentionally. Which I why I keep trying to redress the balance on these threads. I am not saying 'it's just flu, get over it'. I take it seriously I just think we are focusing on the garden bonfires and not on the uncontained wild-fires

Insisting on both is, of course, fine!

 

[PapaverFollis]

I do understand what you are saying AE... Im personally advocating a two pronged approach. My opinion is that a short hiatus on all equine movement would be most effective. Then it is likely that vaccinated animals could carry on as normal. The other problem of course with this particular outbreak is that the picture may not be as simple as vaccinated and unvaccinated depending on what strains have been vaccinated against. So a person with an up to date in terms of flu vaccine horse may in fact have a horse with no or very little immunity to the current strain.... It's looking less that way on the AHT map last time I checked but my initial concern with this one was that it might essentially be acting like a new disease...

I do thing we are all basically on the same side of the coin FWIW. (At university I had an argument with my housemate about the washing up. It was very upsetting until we realised that we were arguing about it because it was only me and him that did the bloody washing up... I think we might be arguing about whether to soak pans or wash them straight away whereas there's a tonnes of people out there who don't wash up at all who are the people we are actually cross with! Lol)

I wrote the rest before seeing your post...

It's not one or the other that will contain the outbreak. It's both. Official advice is probably focussed on vaccines because of the pushback there would be against lockdown measures. However. The racing industry, operating as it does at remove from the leisure horse population, has pretty much stopped its outbreak in its tracks by stopping movement for long enough for new cases to emerge. Now affected yards are isolated until it resolves. It would never happen but if the leisure horse world did the same. If everyone just stood still for a week and then if any yards or in contacts with sick horses were then isolated until everyone was better the risk would then be right back down.

The ridiculously low vaccination rate also needs to be tackled. 100% agree. But why not a two pronged attack? Why not vaccination AND movement control. That AHT map just keeps getting greener. Hopefully we'll have a higher vaccination rate after this. I just hope no one has to loose their beloved older horse or a much longer for and carefully planned foal for it.

 

[DabDab]

But that was part of the basis of the objection to hunting carrying on - they are not known to be vaccinated. The hunt yard mentioned up thread by AA is 3 miles from me. Because of that outbreak the local competition centre have already had a disruption in their activities and are likely to have a fair bit more. To me that is desperately unfair.

I have only seen one poster on this forum advocating not vaccinating (and even then in very specific circumstances).

ETA: sorry, should have quoted AE!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I do thing we are all basically on the same side of the coin FWIW. (At university I had an argument with my housemate about the washing up. It was very upsetting until we realised that we were arguing about it because it was only me and him that did the bloody washing up... I think we might be arguing about whether to soak pans or wash them straight away whereas there's a tonnes of people out there who don't wash up at all who are the people we are actually cross with! Lol)

Haha. Yes this!

 

[ihatework]

But that was part of the basis of the objection to hunting carrying on - they are not known to be vaccinated. The hunt yard mentioned up thread by AA is 3 miles from me. Because of that outbreak the local competition centre have already had a disruption in their activities and are likely to have a fair bit more. To me that is desperately unfair.

I have only seen one poster on this forum advocating not vaccinating (and even then in very specific circumstances).

ETA: sorry, should have quoted AE!

The thing is you are basing your response on an emotive basis, understandably.

AE is basing hers on fact and guidance by the experts.

I don’t think AE is saying that 50 unvaccinated hunt horses being given free rein should be allowed? That is only part of the overall situation (and I would argue that hunters don’t routinely vaccinate, I’d imagine the bulk of them do).

I don’t think any sensible person is ignoring the facts and downplaying the risk but we have to get this in proportion.

I personally haven’t changed my stance. I will follow AHT guidelines to the letter. If they advise a temporary ban on movement I will support it wholeheartedly. If my local situation changes then I would consider voluntarily locking down. I do think hunts are a higher risk activity and certainly anywhere near the vicinity of an outbreak should be stopped, and elsewhere only vaccinated horses allowed out

 

[Ambers Echo]

But that was part of the basis of the objection to hunting carrying on - they are not known to be vaccinated. The hunt yard mentioned up thread by AA is 3 miles from me. Because of that outbreak the local competition centre have already had a disruption in their activities and are likely to have a fair bit more. To me that is desperately unfair.

I have only seen one poster on this forum advocating not vaccinating (and even then in very specific circumstances).

ETA: sorry, should have quoted AE!

I totally agree hunting should stop for now, especially in outbreak areas. I have seen several posts on vaccines not working which is a misunderstanding.

My own vet looking at my specific circumstances regards my risk as low and my precautions proportionate. Obviously if flu gets nearer I will reconsider. However an unvaccinated horse not moving is at greater risk and presents a greater risk to others than a vaccinated one out competing and the focus on movement restrictions obscures this fact. Which is why I keep banging on about it! But I will shut up now......

 

[DabDab]

The thing is you are basing your response on an emotive basis, understandably.

AE is basing hers on fact and guidance by the experts.

I don’t think AE is saying that 50 unvaccinated hunt horses being given free rein should be allowed? That is only part of the overall situation (and I would argue that hunters don’t routinely vaccinate, I’d imagine the bulk of them do).

I don’t think any sensible person is ignoring the facts and downplaying the risk but we have to get this in proportion.

I personally haven’t changed my stance. I will follow AHT guidelines to the letter. If they advise a temporary ban on movement I will support it wholeheartedly. If my local situation changes then I would consider voluntarily locking down. I do think hunts are a higher risk activity and certainly anywhere near the vicinity of an outbreak should be stopped, and elsewhere only vaccinated horses allowed out

No I'm not emotional about it. My view is entirely unaltered from before an outbreak was so close to home. My view is based predominantly on mathematics and probability, because that's the way my brain is wired I'm afraid.

I could just as well say that yours and AE's views are emotionally biased because you both desperately wish to carry on competing and it hits a nerve because you think people are judging you for doing so. But I didn't say that.

I don't think people taking vaccinated horses out competing at well regulated and checked venues is a problem. I think people carrying on merrily saying 'meh, it's low risk' is problematic. I know plenty of unvaccinated horses who are hunted btw, and that's before you consider all the unvaccinated horses they come within range of in an average day's hunting.

 

[ihatework]

No I'm not emotional about it. My view is entirely unaltered from before an outbreak was so close to home. My view is based predominantly on mathematics and probability, because that's the way my brain is wired I'm afraid.

I could just as well say that yours and AE's views are emotionally biased because you both desperately wish to carry on competing and it hits a nerve because you think people are judging you for doing so. But I didn't say that.

I don't think people taking vaccinated horses out competing at well regulated and checked venues is a problem. I think people carrying on merrily saying 'meh, it's low risk' is problematic. I know plenty of unvaccinated horses who are hunted btw, and that's before you consider all the unvaccinated horses they come within range of in an average day's hunting.

So we are in the same page then, no?
Hunting has questions to answer but going out competing at well regulated venues is an acceptable risk.

 

[Bernster]

Well, hopefully one good thing about this is that the vaccination rate will increase, at least for this year anyway. I’ve never had my vacc record checked and didn’t realise how many horses are unvaccinated.

I’d actually like venues to check vacc permanently but I suspect this will wane once the current ‘outbreak’ settles down, or whatever the correct terminology is.

AE I certainly wasn’t thinking of this as lock down or vaccinate. Absolutely vaccinate but I’m also feeling better about the fact we won’t be out for a few weeks. But my yard is operating as normal and not checking vacc history for those who came to a clinic recently, and that bugs me now so I’m going to email them to ask what measures they’re putting in place for reminding liveries to vacc and checking those who come to clinics.

 

[DabDab]

So we are in the same page then, no?
Hunting has questions to answer but going out competing at well regulated venues is an acceptable risk.

😂yes, that's what I was getting at.

 

[catkin]

I totally agree hunting should stop for now, especially in outbreak areas. I have seen several posts on vaccines not working which is a misunderstanding.

My own vet looking at my specific circumstances regards my risk as low and my precautions proportionate. Obviously if flu gets nearer I will reconsider. However an unvaccinated horse not moving is at greater risk and presents a greater risk to others than a vaccinated one out competing and the focus on movement restrictions obscures this fact. Which is why I keep banging on about it! But I will shut up now......

The reason why some of us are advocating a short shut-down is to give everyone a chance to get those stay-at-home unvaccinated horses jabbed.

 

[catkin]

Well, hopefully one good thing about this is that the vaccination rate will increase, at least for this year anyway. I’ve never had my vacc record checked and didn’t realise how many horses are unvaccinated.

I’d actually like venues to check vacc permanently but I suspect this will wane once the current ‘outbreak’ settles down, or whatever the correct terminology is.

I suspect the opposite. I'd guess that checking will become more widespread.
I bet the insurers of both horses and equine businesses are busy calculating costs and re-writing policies right now........