AP McCoy to ride Denman in Gold Cup

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Bustermartin

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Any opinions? I am not sure his style will suit Denman, but I am sure his owners/trainers have thought it through and think it will. My money will be on Kauto though!!!
 
I think his style will suit the horse as AP rides postively and Denman seems to respond well to a positive rider. I have a great deal of admiration for the champ as he is my favourite all time jumps jockey but I do feel very sorry for Sam Thomas who must be gutted about being left on the sidelines.
I don't think anyone can say for certain which of the two main protagonists will win the Gold Cup at this stage. Denman and Kauto are without doubt the two best contenders on paper on form shown this season. How they fare I believe all rests on the day itself and ground conditions as one of them is far better on faster ground than the other. It is not a two horse race though in my opinion. Imperial Commander who gave Kauto a fright earlier in the season acts well around the course and is probably still improving and could do so again with a step up in trip. Whilst Cooldine who is my main threat to the Nicholls's pair proved what a very good horse he was in wining the RSA chase last year ( when I backed him). It is a race which has thrown up subsequent winners of the gold cup in the following season. I expect him to show his true colours in the Irish Hennessey tomorrow and he is my main value bet against the field at this ante post stage anyway.
 
Bu99er, was hoping Sam Thomas would have retained the ride, that's such a shame
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. I can't stand AP, sorry to those who like him
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And I love Denman, so now I feel very torn, I'd love to see Denman win but I'd rather see Ruby win too, arghhhhhhh
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Why has Sam lost the ride? Just by not being AP?

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Lord knows Zeb
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I can't see that Sam has done anything wrong to warrant being jocked off. I like AP, but he isn't the be all and end all.....
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I don't think AP is the jockey for Denman, I think he might bully him too much. Denman's strength is his ability to dominate and jump in a relentless gallop at the end of the race, but on his own terms when he's jumping within himself. In his wins to date he's never been properly challenged over the last fences by anyone, except in the Lexus, but Mossbank is not in the same league as Kauto.
Whilst I have the hugest respect for AP as a jockey, he will want to win the GC, and I think forcing The Tank might prove his undoing.........
A great race in prospect, whatever the outcome.
 
AP doesn't bully and scrub away on every horse though- yes he has amazing strength and is the sole reason a lot of less than average horses have won races.

however, i have seen him countless times sitting quietly, particularly on horses who like front running or are a little one paced.

i think he will do just fine, although i suppose we will see next weekend how they get on.
 
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Bu99er, was hoping Sam Thomas would have retained the ride, that's such a shame
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. I can't stand AP, sorry to those who like him
crazy.gif
And I love Denman, so now I feel very torn, I'd love to see Denman win but I'd rather see Ruby win too, arghhhhhhh
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Agree, poor Sam, don't like AP - bad loser.
 
I do feel sorry for Sam who I like a lot and won on our horse a few times. However look from the owners point of view, last time they saddled Sam up on Denman (by choice over Ruby!They could have had Ruby but wanted to remain loyal to Sam) he hit the deck on a horse known for his jumping, ( I know every horse makes mistakes but the last thing you want to be worrying about is whether the jock will stay on). They want to give the horse the best chance of winning, AP will ride him next weekend and if the owners are not happy with the way he is ridden I am sure owners will change plans. Those criticising his style.....AP doesn't ride every horse agressively, I have seen him many a time sit there on a good horse quietly trundling a long until the final few furlongs and if if comes to a Denman Kauto battle up from the last who better to have with massive strength to carry to the line. He may act like a bad loser on occasion but his massive will to win even on very ordinary horses is what makes him so great. What a friend gave Denman a challenge up to the last two fences at Newbury last times out WAF (who proved he was good in him own right in Ireland last time out) even looked like winning at one point, so Denman has been challenged when winning and rose to it.
 
I quite agree. AP is not a bully and has a great understanding of a horse. He can sit quiet but by nature he is a positive rider. He inspires many horses to up their game but in trying some horses may not rise to the challenge. Sam gave Denman a very positive ride in the Gold Cup when they won and last year he did so again but also had to look after him a bit. The horse will be up for that challenge so should get on with AP but where is the loyalty to Sam? He has had a pretty hard time with P.Nicholls - even when he won on Kauto Star and Denman there were comments along the lines of Ruby would have done it better. Knocking people all the time doesn't help anyone.
 
AP is a brilliant jockey, I'm not disputing that. This is about the Denman ride. I am not saying AP only bullies and scrubs, but when he really wants to win he expects the horses to answer some serious calls.
I too have seen ride some classy races, but, sometimes, he takes it a step too far. What about his ride on Petit Robin? That was definitely not his finest hour......... he does push harder than any other jockey to get that win. When it works, it's a brilliant McCoy ride, but when it doesn't, it's not pretty.
If he does that to Denman, I think it will backfire.
In the Hennessy, Ruby let him pop the second and third last when he wasn't on a great spot, and when he came to the last, he was on a good spot and flew it. He was only put under serious pressure between the fences, not at them.
My worry is that AP would push for the long one in those circumstances, and it could rattle the horse's rhythm.
But hey, we'll see soon enough.
I agree the disloyalty to Sam is sad......
 
How on EARTH can anyone not like AP McCoy?! I like Sam Thomas too, but on a toss-up between him and the Champion Jockey who are you gonna choose? I'm gunning for Denman even more now; can't wait for the race!
 
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.....In the Hennessy, Ruby let him pop the second and third last when he wasn't on a great spot, and when he came to the last, he was on a good spot and flew it. He was only put under serious pressure between the fences, not at them.
My worry is that AP would push for the long one in those circumstances, and it could rattle the horse's rhythm.....

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and the last fence in the back straight Denman took off about 3 strides away and absolutely flew so i don't think he has an issue with going on long strides.

you may think AP takes it too far sometimes but to balance it how many times have you seen him almost tailed off, horse off the bridle and not travelling to somehow come back and win?

i can understand people thinking Sam has been badly done by but i really cannot understand people knocking AP, particularly when they haven't even seen him on the horse yet!
 
Wow how exciting is this Gold Cup going to be?
I love Denman, but couldn't realistically see him being Kauto, but with AP on board, who knows?
As for all those slating AP, he might not be as pretty to watch as Ruby, but he gets the results, and isn't that what the job is about in racing?
 
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Kauto is speed, Denman is stamina. So if the grounds bad then Denman, if its good then Kauto.

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It's not really that black and white though is it? Denman is no slouch in the speed stakes, and Kauto 'appears' to be learning to dig deep, he has definitely toughen up a lot.
 
If you cut it back to black and white then that's basically it! Who knows what'll happen. Maybe Kauto will throw in a few of his dodgy jumps and won't find his 5th leg this time, maybe Denman just won't be able to make up the ground in the run in if someones pushed on... just gonna have to wait and see! I do hope the ground is soft though, for Denman's advantage.
 
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Kauto is speed, Denman is stamina. So if the grounds bad then Denman, if its good then Kauto.

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I basically agree with this too! Paul Nicholls says it in his book pretty much. Can't wait for the big race! I'm not even gonna comment on the criticism of AP... (except to say that how anyone could criticise him is beyond me - the man's a genius)
 
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I'm not even gonna comment on the criticism of AP... (except to say that how anyone could criticise him is beyond me - the man's a genius)

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I agree! I would love to see him ride as many really good horses as Ruby. I think then some of his knockers would see him in a different light. You can win races that you shouldn't really on a day to day basis with run of the mill horses but that's not so easily the case at the highest level.
 
I am quite surprised to see how AP has been knocked - not slagging his 'knockers' at all- you are more than entitled to your opinion- but I am usually the first to take a dislike to a jockey if I think he is too hard on the horses or rides them in too 'aggressive' a fashion but I love AP, I think he is a true horseman with a real talent for getting the best out of a horse.

I also love RW and admire his riding though he was slated recently for excessively pushing a finished horse that died in it's box after the race - can't comment myself as didn't see the race but there was a lot of negative comment about the ride in The Racing Forum.

I think it will be a fab race two truly talented, outstanding jockeys on two truly talented outstanding chasers - bring it on!!!
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.....In the Hennessy, Ruby let him pop the second and third last when he wasn't on a great spot, and when he came to the last, he was on a good spot and flew it. He was only put under serious pressure between the fences, not at them.
My worry is that AP would push for the long one in those circumstances, and it could rattle the horse's rhythm.....

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and the last fence in the back straight Denman took off about 3 strides away and absolutely flew so i don't think he has an issue with going on long strides.


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There's a big difference between a horse choosing to jump out of a jockey's hands mid race when full of running, and the jockey pushing for a glory jump at the end of a race when he's tired and flat out.

As far as knocking AP goes, I have said he's a brilliant jockey, but he's not perfect, and the aggressive ride doesn't always come off. I think he's far better and more considerate than he was as a younger jock (when he was quoted as saying he'd rather put a horse on the deck trying to win a race than come second by keeping it on it's feet), but rides like the Petit Robin one are in that vein and still make me wince.
 
i don't really understand what you are getting at?

i have seen him plenty of times allow the horse to pop a fence in the home straight; you seem to be determined to make out he forces all horses to stand off fences when they are tired?

as i said before, perhaps we should wait until Saturday to decide?
 
This thread asked opinions about AP on Denman......... I've just given mine, which is that he might not be the jockey for this PARTICULAR horse from how I've seen him run, and how AP can push when he wants to win.

You must watch some different races to me, as AP's trademark is to galvanise a horse when in contention, usually brilliantly, into rising to the occasion to jump for him. Sometimes, it doesn't work.
That's my thoughts on how it relates to Denman.

He's unlikely to come under much pressure in the AON, if he is to have any hope of beating KS........ so I doubt we'll see the kind of ride that harries Denman.

I am not AP bashing, so stop putting words in my mouth.
 
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