Appaloosa, Breed or Colour? Confused.

[DJ]

Hey all, for as long as I can remember I have always admired Appaloosas. There was a program on TV a few weeks back that really sparked my interest it was about an older lady who went in search of the "original" Appaloosa bloodline, it was based in New Zealand I think? and she went overseas to track down a horse she had seen on the TV to prove they were the first spotty horses.

After watching this, I went online to learn more, as you do, but just ended up more confused. It says on one of the sites that there are 4 things that make an Appy an Appy:

"The four identifiable characteristics are: coat pattern, mottled skin, white sclera, and striped hooves. In order to receive regular registration, a horse must have a recognizable coat pattern or mottled skin and one other characteristic"

So does having the above make it an Appaloosa by breed? Even if breeding is unknown? Or does it just make it an Appaloosa by colour?

I always thought if it was spotty, it was an Appaloosa by breed, but the more I`m looking into it, it seems you can have other breeds that have a spotty coat, is that an Appaloosa (breed) genetic throwback? (great great great grandad was an Appy) Or is it just that Appaloosa (spotty) is a type of colouring? (like you can have a bay Thoroughbred/Welsh/warmblood etc).

Ha ha ha, look I`ve talked myself round in a big circle already and I`m still confused, really hoping some one here is "In the know" and has the patience to explain it to me

Choice of wine, tea, biccits and cake for all who get to the end lol

 

[Clodagh]

I am not 'in the know' but I imagine you need to know its breeding for it to be registered, but it also needs to tick the four requirements.
Like you can't register a coloured connemara, as an example off the top of my head. Bizarrely I don't think you can register a cremello connie, although they do have the dilute gene so it could easily and legally occur.

 

[ester]

On the basis that other breeds can be spotty too like knabstruppers but would not be referred to as appaloosas they are a breed . I imagine there is some room for cross registration though . You can also have a solid coloured appaloosa.

Genetically it is the LP (leopard complex/pattern) and PATN1 and PATN2 genes which develop the colour.

 

[AppyLover]

An Appaloosa is a Breed not a colour as Apps can come in anything from a solid colour to a leopard spot and many coat patterns inbetween. It's the characteristics that make them an Appy like you the striped hooves, mootled skin, white sclera, some say big knees and I'm pretty sure they have to be a certain height. Even though I own an App I'm still not an expert but know the basics 😊

 

[be positive]

If it is a breed then it is one based more on colour and skin characteristics rather than type, very different to most true breeds which are bred to breed standards mainly based on strong conformation characteristics, colour is part of many breed standards but only to keep the strong genes required for them to remain true to type, so no/ minimum white allowed in several of our native breeds.

I think the appaloosa as a breed has become very diluted and while some may be pure bred many more must have a mix of breeds with the dominant skin still coming to the fore, they come in so many types, sizes, many will have no recognised breeding so surely they cannot be considered to be a breed in reality unless they have a full and verified pedigree, without this they are just a horse that happens to have appy genes or a part bred.

 

[YorksG]

Horses of unknown breeding, but being over 14.2 and having all the characteristics can be registered as part bred with BAPS. To be registered as pure bred they have to have one parent on the full register and one on the part bred register, with one registered parent, they can be on the part bred register, regardless of the fact that they are very spotty.
I have a full bred mare who did not colour out until she was 12, however she alwas had spotted skin. sclera and striped hooves. I have a very spotty part bred, who's Dad was registered and Mum is Welsh D.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I always thought it was a colour like a palamino, dun, pinto or buckskin. Learn sonething knew every day.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

An Appaloosa is a Breed not a colour as Apps can come in anything from a solid colour to a leopard spot and many coat patterns inbetween. It's the characteristics that make them an Appy like you the striped hooves, mootled skin, white sclera, some say big knees and I'm pretty sure they have to be a certain height. Even though I own an App I'm still not an expert but know the basics 😊

This.

Foundation appys do not exceed 15:2 I had one who was on his sire side foundation lines. They are American.

British appys can go higher as they have other breeds mixes in with them. They also have different grades etc with how pure/mixed their breeding is if that makes sense.

The two British appys I have are 16:2 and 16:3.

 

[DJ]

I am not 'in the know' but I imagine you need to know its breeding for it to be registered, but it also needs to tick the four requirements.
Like you can't register a coloured connemara, as an example off the top of my head. Bizarrely I don't think you can register a cremello connie, although they do have the dilute gene so it could easily and legally occur.

Ok, that makes sense, thanks

On the basis that other breeds can be spotty too like knabstruppers but would not be referred to as appaloosas they are a breed . I imagine there is some room for cross registration though . You can also have a solid coloured appaloosa.

Genetically it is the LP (leopard complex/pattern) and PATN1 and PATN2 genes which develop the colour.

Yes, I know about the solid colour Appys as a friend of mine put a spotty to a spotty and got a bay lol ... Thanks for the info on the Gene side of things

An Appaloosa is a Breed not a colour as Apps can come in anything from a solid colour to a leopard spot and many coat patterns inbetween. It's the characteristics that make them an Appy like you the striped hooves, mootled skin, white sclera, some say big knees and I'm pretty sure they have to be a certain height. Even though I own an App I'm still not an expert but know the basics 😊

Ah you own an Appy, how do you find their temperament? It`s not a horse I`ve ever really looked into if you see what I mean, more just admired from a distance lol

If it is a breed then it is one based more on colour and skin characteristics rather than type, very different to most true breeds which are bred to breed standards mainly based on strong conformation characteristics, colour is part of many breed standards but only to keep the strong genes required for them to remain true to type, so no/ minimum white allowed in several of our native breeds.

I think the appaloosa as a breed has become very diluted and while some may be pure bred many more must have a mix of breeds with the dominant skin still coming to the fore, they come in so many types, sizes, many will have no recognised breeding so surely they cannot be considered to be a breed in reality unless they have a full and verified pedigree, without this they are just a horse that happens to have appy genes or a part bred.

Hmmmm, so by this understanding, the horses with no proven breeding must still have Appy bloodlines somewhere down the line to get to dominant skin colouring/mottling/sclera? Is that right?

Horses of unknown breeding, but being over 14.2 and having all the characteristics can be registered as part bred with BAPS. To be registered as pure bred they have to have one parent on the full register and one on the part bred register, with one registered parent, they can be on the part bred register, regardless of the fact that they are very spotty.
I have a full bred mare who did not colour out until she was 12, however she alwas had spotted skin. sclera and striped hooves. I have a very spotty part bred, who's Dad was registered and Mum is Welsh D.

Ah ok, that explanation really helped. Thanks

I always thought it was a colour like a palamino, dun, pinto or buckskin. Learn sonething knew every day.

Great isn`t it lol

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

My boy is appy cross and recognised as rabicano, he displays all traits above but he just has a standard (unknown for everything) passport.

 

[Paint Me Proud]

I have a 16.1 gelding who has all the appaloosa colour characteristics, however when describing my guess at his breed (unknown on passport) I never say he is an Appaloosa. To me his 'appaloosa' is just a description of his coat colour, same as saying he is buckskin.
This isnt necessarily the correct way to do it but thats always what I've done. I tend to correct people if they say his breed is appaloosa.

Saying that, I do know that Appaloosa is a breed in it's own right, just like a welsh d or a thoroughbred etc, just I believe my boy isnt appaloosa by breed, but just by colour mutation (which can occur in other breeds)

 

[LadyGascoyne]

They are a breed. They come in solid colours too, not just spotted ones. I know a lovely bay one whose owner always struggles to explain his lack of spots.

I rode one for a friend of mine for years. He was a lovely boy, very easy going and happy to learn. We did some lower level dressage and show jumping. He had a nice enough jump but not exactly scopey, and economical rather than expressive action so he was ultimately more of a hack than anything else.

He was such a striking horse though, he's about 15.2hh, (the grey next to him makes almost 18hh so dwarfs him a bit)

 

[AppyLover]

Yep DJ I bought Ted when he was 20 months old (3 Years Old next month) he is my first horse so to me everything he does is normal to me as I don't really know any different. I think they are best described as Marmite some people hate them and some people love them, you cant force them to do anything you have to convince them it was their idea as they are very smart and learn very quickly. Ted loves human contact (I actually said to someone the other day i don't think he could ever be abused as he would just see it as attention - which will never ever be an issue as he's mine for life and was very much a joke (not that abuse is a joke to me in anyway shape or form) ) he loves a fuss, can get very jealous if you pay attention to others, loving and affectionate, mischievous, I think even at such a young ages he knows who to test and who not to, i'd say he is bold and brave at times but others just can't deal with things but i've put that down to age more then breeding and VERY Very opinionated at times. I think I will find more things about him as he starts to be ridden late summer.

He is only on the Part Bred register but he does have a BAPS passport but I have yet to really see the cob in him at all

He is a Bay Near Leopard spot and about 15.3hh so will probably reach 16.2hh (Exceeding his passport predicted height) and his father was a loud looking leopard spot.

(The other week, Ignore me he's the pretty one out of the 2 of us )

 

[Paint Me Proud]

Your boy looks quite similar in build to my gelding, but I have no idea of his parentage unfortunately Would love to know.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My boy is appy cross and recognised as rabicano, he displays all traits above but he just has a standard (unknown for everything) passport.

Recognised by whom?


OP, Our solid pure bred mare has 2 of the spottiest parents you could wish for, I have seen at least 3 of her full siblings which are all solid coloured but she has half-siblings which are spotty as their sire. We know the breeding of the sire for generations, which originated in USA while her dam was registered on the basis of her characteristics, in the days when BApS were building up their register, but her breeding is unknown.

There are breed standards, as well as the characterstics, e.g. they should not be of vanner type.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I have yet to meet any version of spotted horse or pony with decent conformation.

 

[AppyLover]

Your boy looks quite similar in build to my gelding, but I have no idea of his parentage unfortunately Would love to know.

You Boy is gorgeous!!

 

[AppyLover]

Also one other trait of an Appy is a pretty crappy Mane and Tail, Yes this isn't in all Apps but most seem to have this also.

 

[Paint Me Proud]

Also one other trait of an Appy is a pretty crappy Mane and Tail, Yes this isn't in all Apps but most seem to have this also.

That is the one trait that my boy doesnt have, he has a full mane that would grow long if i didnt pull it and his tail is so thick and long it's a nightmare to brush, however i'm not complaining as i love the natural flowing look
It doesnt show well in the photo above as the wind was blowing it all behind him

 

[YorksG]

I have yet to meet any version of spotted horse or pony with decent conformation.

You haven't met mine then, if you take the spots out of the equation they both have pretty good conformation, confirmed by other quite experienced peoples opinion. The older mare could have bigger feet and possibly a slightly longer back for perfection and the younger one is a little upright in her hocks, but I have yet to see the perfect horse.

 

[AppyLover]

That is the one trait that my boy doesnt have, he has a full mane that would grow long if i didnt pull it and his tail is so thick and long it's a nightmare to brush, however i'm not complaining as i love the natural flowing look
It doesnt show well in the photo above as the wind was blowing it all behind him

In the pic Ted's mane almost looks pulled and its never been touched. Last year he had an almost black mane and this years its almost completely blonde and grey. His tail has improved abit as before I got him he was on 105 acres with 30 other horses and cows and I think the cows used to chew his tail or something did

 

[be positive]

I have yet to meet any version of spotted horse or pony with decent conformation.

Neither have I, good correct conformation is considered a priority in most breeds but with appaloosas it seems to be colour is the main standard and the poor confo is overlooked by breeders trying to get a pretty colour.

 

[MargotC]

I have yet to meet any version of spotted horse or pony with decent conformation.

Likely because some people breed indiscrimenately for the spots.

It is indeed a breed, I looked at a lovely little mare before buying my second horse, but I find many apply the term to mean any horse with spots with could explain the confusion.

I have seen BSPs and Knabstruppers being described as Appaloosas (as in the breed and not the pattern) which they are clearly not.

 

[Lyle]

Breed!!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Neither have I, good correct conformation is considered a priority in most breeds but with appaloosas it seems to be colour is the main standard and the poor confo is overlooked by breeders trying to get a pretty colour.

One of mine didn't have fab conformation, never had a days lameness out of him till he got lami from ir aged 16.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

The foundation appy, 15:1 his sire Ulrichs Buckeroo was spotty. My boys spots were on his skin.




My rising eight year old British appy. He is 16:3



EKW and be positive I would be interested in you thoughts on their confo. I have been told the foundation one isn't that good confo wise but the spotty one is.

 

[be positive]

The foundation appy, 15:1 his sire Ulrichs Buckeroo was spotty. My boys spots were on his skin.




My rising eight year old British appy. He is 16:3



EKW and be positive I would be interested in you thoughts on their confo. I have been told the foundation one isn't that good confo wise but the spotty one is.

The top one has a weak straight hind leg, poor second thigh, cannon bones are longer than ideal, he lacks depth through the girth, his neck, from what you can see, is set too low, is weak, almost ewe and comes from a slightly straight shoulder, he is lighter of bone that I would want and from the photo lacks any masculinity, to me he is just a bog standard "gelding" with nothing special about him whatsoever. He may move like a dream, have a wonderful nature but as a stallion I would not look at him twice.

The second is very different in his hind leg, he also has a poor second thigh, something that I have seen on most appy's, he is not straight like the first but it is still weaker than ideal, he has better bone and shoulder but still has a low set neck, he seems to be slightly downhill, his girth depth is nice and deep and I prefer his front leg, he also appears to have more presence and quality generally, he is also to my mind a better colour and has most importantly a nice face, kind eye and expression.

It would be interesting to see them move, most that I have seen lack power from behind, some are almost trailing their hind legs rather than pushing and it is not always due to poor training or bad riding, it is due to the weak conformation which no amount of schooling can ever totally make up for, that said if they do the job required it doesn't matter as long as the owners are happy and having fun, no horse is perfect it just seems a shame that a breed society is not trying to really improve the standard of conformation which should be a priority if they are going to be taken seriously as a breed for competitive purposes, I know not everyone wants to breed an olympic horse but even a low level horse will perform better and stay sound longer if it starts with fairly good confo and straight correct movement, although there are always exceptions.

 

[KVH]

It is absolutely a breed and not a colour.
I also own a spotty, she's not an Appy or a Knabstrupper, nor is she a BSP.
There are several other (less 'familiar') breeds other than previously mentioned, which have both solid colour and spots as breed standard.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've been lucky enough to meet a couple of very nice appys that were imported. Their conformation was odd to my eyes, as was their way of going, but they did have a quality to them that most of the spotted horses I've met don't have.

Conformation wise, they were very much a stock horse stamp. So pretty straight through the hocks and upright in the pasterns, compared to what I normally see. Plus they were built downhill and had rather generous hindquarters. I think they must have been originally trained for western pleasure, but I didn't ask at the time. They were ridden in western saddles and long and low, but it was the tiny steps and slowness that got me. Just so different compared to what I'm used to.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Recognised by whom?


OP, Our solid pure bred mare has 2 of the spottiest parents you could wish for, I have seen at least 3 of her full siblings which are all solid coloured but she has half-siblings which are spotty as their sire. We know the breeding of the sire for generations, which originated in USA while her dam was registered on the basis of her characteristics, in the days when BApS were building up their register, but her breeding is unknown.

There are breed standards, as well as the characterstics, e.g. they should not be of vanner type.

By pretty much looking at him He displays all of the characteristics of it and it was actually pointed out to me by a colour genetics guru. I just thought he was roan/sabino.

Don't see why your tone had to be mardy actually.