Appleby Fair

Baggybreeches said:
Right, so showing producers 'slitting' ponies mouths with stanley knife blades to keep them behind the vertical isn't horrific enough? Not hearsay I might add have seen the aftermath with my own eyes! And that is just for starters!
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I see now! So one dreadful act of cruelty counteracts another. It is all fine then, only a matter of who is more cruel than the other.
 
As I have already stated when cruelty is going on people are usually against it and quite rightly so and it is very rarely people do it openly on a large scale in full public view.

It is also rarely the case that police or welfare officers are forced to overlook or let things go they way not wish to because of mob rule and I am afraid that is what goes on there.
Personally I have never been to any show where fatally injured horses are just dumped in a ditch to die thank god.
 
Trinity Fox said:
As I have already stated when cruelty is going on people are usually against it and quite rightly so and it is very rarely people do it openly on a large scale in full public view.

It is also rarely the case that police or welfare officers are forced to overlook or let things go they way not wish to because of mob rule and I am afraid that is what goes on there.
Personally I have never been to any show where fatally injured horses are just dumped in a ditch to die thank god.
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Me neither!
 
justabob said:
I see now! So one dreadful act of cruelty counteracts another. It is all fine then, only a matter of who is more cruel than the other.
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I didn't say that, all I was trying (and obviously failing) to illustrate was that cruelty that goes on in public view is no better or worse than that which goes on behind closed doors. The issue of who is more cruel is also a complex one, are those who do bad things in private worse because they are educated (and allegedly knowledgeable) or are the ignorant worse because they don't know any different?
 
Baggybreeches said:
I wasn't at the yard at the time it happened (or I can guarantee it would not have happened!) I was told what happened by my 13/14 year old step daughter who explained in detail what she had seen.
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So what happens when there is cruelty and brutality at appleby? Who deals with it? Who reports it? What are the consequences?
 
Trinity Fox said:
As I have already stated when cruelty is going on people are usually against it and quite rightly so and it is very rarely people do it openly on a large scale in full public view.

It is also rarely the case that police or welfare officers are forced to overlook or let things go they way not wish to because of mob rule and I am afraid that is what goes on there.
Personally I have never been to any show where fatally injured horses are just dumped in a ditch to die thank god.
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And lets not get started on the RSPCA only being present because it raises (yet again) their profile and the TV cameras are there...........
 
Considering this is a big thread, there have just been 3 people that have condoned Appleby Fair. Speaks volumes how the public view this annual week of barbaric festivities.
 
weebarney said:
So what happens when there is cruelty and brutality at appleby? Who deals with it? Who reports it? What are the consequences?
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Usually nothing from a welfare point of view, but there is the general consensus that 'proper' folk don't treat their horse/s or animals badly. The RSPCA have no intention of prosecuting anyone they just want to be seen on the telly.
 
Baggybreeches said:
Usually nothing from a welfare point of view, but there is the general consensus that 'proper' folk don't treat their horse/s or animals badly. The RSPCA have no intention of prosecuting anyone they just want to be seen on the telly.
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As it is a gypsy gathering why are they not policing it then? why is it left to the rspca? Why is there not one or a group of respected gypsy's at the usual flash points stewarding it?
 
weebarney said:
As it is a gypsy gathering why are they not policing it then? why is it left to the rspca? Why is there not one or a group of respected gypsy's at the usual flash points stewarding it?
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Because that would be like having Fred West looking after the welfare of children.
 
weebarney said:
As it is a gypsy gathering why are they not policing it then? why is it left to the rspca? Why is there not one or a group of respected gypsy's at the usual flash points stewarding it?
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A good point, but I suspect as you have all stated the bad guys have overtaken the old guard in large numbers and it would take some organising. I will though take your point on board and see if something can't be done? I thinks it's definitely a crunch time, which the fair must change or be gone forever :(
 
Baggybreeches said:
A good point, but I suspect as you have all stated the bad guys have overtaken the old guard in large numbers and it would take some organising. I will though take your point on board and see if something can't be done? I thinks it's definitely a crunch time, which the fair must change or be gone forever :(
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So it seems like its not just a minority spoiling it for the rest then.
 
Just watched bbc look north 21 arrested on gbh nice, and some lovely person has been arrested for dangerous driving crashing in to a school bus didnt say but do not think any children were in it.
And for the most part while I am not a fan of the rspca after talking to one of the vets in attendance when we were there he did say they were constantly treading on eggshells and suffered terrible abuse for intervening and helping a disgrace really.

Although I probably come across as some stiff old fart in this thread I am actually fairly live and let live but do feel the line does need to drawn at times.
 
Trinity Fox said:
Just watched bbc look north 21 arrested on gbh nice, and some lovely person has been arrested for dangerous driving crashing in to a school bus didnt say but do not think any children were in it.
And for the most part while I am not a fan of the rspca after talking to one of the vets in attendance when we were there he did say they were constantly treading on eggshells and suffered terrible abuse for intervening and helping a disgrace really.

Although I probably come across as some stiff old fart in this thread I am actually fairly live and let live but do feel the line does need to drawn at times.
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And it is only friday, tomorrow night be even more charming.
 
Baggybreeches said:
A good point, but I suspect as you have all stated the bad guys have overtaken the old guard in large numbers and it would take some organising. I will though take your point on board and see if something can't be done? I thinks it's definitely a crunch time, which the fair must change or be gone forever :(
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weebarney said:
So it seems like its not just a minority spoiling it for the rest then.
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Exactly!

seems to me -speaking as an ignorant member of the public basing my views from hearsay and the media that the problem is now the younger generation for the MOST part not having (or caring about) the old skills and horsemanship their fathers and grandfathers possessed. Like wise a criminal element seems to be getting larger and a gulf widening of mutual resentment and lack of respect between the travellers and the ordinary domiciled community.
Perhaps because horses arent the working animals they once were in previous generations pulling bow tops when horses NEEDED to be in prime condition to work, they are now generally more status symbol they are less 'valuable' and more disposable if they race their legs off flashing or drown the bloody thing. No harm done, just buy a new one.

Undoubtedly not ALL travellers/gypsies are 'bad' but there is no doubt there is more of a problem with welfare, over breeding, fly grazing and conflict with non travellers than there used to be from the younger gen.

I entirely agree that some policiing of welfare standards for the horses at Appleby from within the travelling community would be the way forward and as its their fair and if they want to be welcomed by the locals in the future its in their own interests to do so.
 
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In the 1970s I used to go every year with my farrier, a local wheelwright and a bunch of other local horse folk. We always had a good time but it was nothing like it is now. I went occasionally through the 80's and 90's but it just got rougher each time I was there.
The last time I went I nearly got killed when one of the trotters they were racing up the road overreached his front shoe off and it flew past my head, missing me by inches, and went through the side of the lorry I was standing in front of. I also saw a horse which had the shaft from another vehicle embedded in its side :( and which had to be shot.
To top it all when I got back to my car the window had been smashed and the radio stolen. I've not been since and I don't think I'll be going again.
 
Well the driver of the car who crashed into the bus making off from Police yesterday has been charged with dangerous driving, driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence, no insurance and handling stolen goods.

A horse was also located with a broken leg this morning and had to be put down.

What a charming "fair" this is....
 
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