Arabian horse face shape

[Forestfreedom]

Does anyone know why some Arabian horse have a very very prominent dish face, and others and a minimal dish shape face.?

 

[TPO]

There are different types of arabs eg crabbet, Egyptian and polish.

My understanding is that it is the Egyptians that have the very pronounced faces and muzzles that "fit in a teacup".

As with everything humans breed certain traits to an extreme leaving animals not fit for purpose and with health issues

 

[Forestfreedom]

There are different types of arabs eg crabbet, Egyptian and polish.

My understanding is that it is the Egyptians that have the very pronounced faces and muzzles that "fit in a teacup".

As with everything humans breed certain traits to an extreme leaving animals not fit for purpose and with health issues

Yeah, it’s not good. I actually just this second read online about breeding to try and get this unatural pronounced dish shape. And how it can damage their breathing because of it.! Not good. I think the minimal dish looks better rather that the massively concave face.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I have one Arab with a small dish and one with a big dish. They both have big foreheads (known as a jibbah) compared to my part bred who has a straight profile. Neither has teeth issues or breathing issues. I'm not saying that Arabs with breathing issues don't exist, but I have never met one myself. They normally have exceptional endurance which surely would be negatively compromised if they couldn't get enough oxygen into their lungs easily?

https://egyptianarabian.blogspot.com/2009/02/bedouin-beauty.html

 

[Palindrome]

I do like the dished face, not the super extreme that you sometimes see though. There are halter lines and performance lines (endurance and racing mainly). Halter lines are only bred for look, mainly in the US I think.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes my gelding (the dishier one) has some US blood mainly via WH Justice. Having said that, if you don't clip and primp them in the way that they do with US halter horses for the show ring, the same heads looks less extreme in shape.

 

[Steerpike]

I think only 2 of mine would pass as an Arab in the horse world, my others don't look like a 'typical' Arab. A lot of mine are race bred, French lines and American with a bit of Egyptian thrown in. I personally don't like the dished faces.

 

[TPO]

I had a Crabbet Arabian mare. You could see she was an arab but she could do a job. With her previous owner she raced, jumped, Xc'd and did dressage to medium.


Some of the arab these days look like toilet roll tubes on wha with heads of seahorses who wouldn't stand up to the work that arabs were originally bred for.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That mare is pretty much my dream horse TPO. Gorgeous!

 

[TPO]

That mare is pretty much my dream horse TPO. Gorgeous!

Thanks Faracat. She (Shiraz, registered name Siham) was hard, hard work in every possible way but very sweet.

I lost her just before her 21st birthday to a tumour in her nasal passage back in 2008.

I'm not up my Arab breeding; she was a "hand me down" from my mum who was a big arab fan. I believe her sire was King Cotton Gold or something like that 😬

 

[Pie's mum]

I had a Crabbet Arabian mare. You could see she was an arab but she could do a job. With her previous owner she raced, jumped, Xc'd and did dressage to medium.


Some of the arab these days look like toilet roll tubes on wha with heads of seahorses who wouldn't stand up to the work that arabs were originally bred for.

She’s gorgeous! I grew up in the Middle East in the 1980’s and was lucky enough to ride an Arab mare who looked very similar. I don’t remember any of the horses out there looking as extreme as some of those you see around now!

 

[molar roller]

Face shape depends on the type and female bloodline. Most flat race PA horses have a flat shape face, you can not see any curve.
Obviously I'm talking about real PA flat racehorses, some of French PA flat racehorses are not ''pure'' they have TB blood.Shame!
Crabbet is a different story. Some Crabbets have huge hoof. Crabbet is not a typical Arab

 

[ycbm]

By 'very very prominent', are you talking about this kind of thing? (No it's not photo shopped it's a top level foal called El Rey Magnum)

If so, the answer is because for some reason some Americans seem to have to take things to extremes in horse breeding. Halter bred Quarter Horses is another.



.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I did think of that colt (who is definitely on the extreme end of head shape) when I saw this thread. Is he fully grown yet? Their heads do 'dry out' as they grow so I'd like to see how he ends up looking, especially without his nostrils flaring. Also that pic shows the awful halter turnout with the shaved fur around the eyes and muzzle plus the copious greasy makeup that I referred to in post 6. Does he even have any eyelashes?

 

[meleeka]

Many of the extremes are thought of by American. There’s the walking horses , over muscles quarter horses, the loping ones that almost have their noses on the floor and Arabs. It’s all animal abuse and those that think it’s ok should be very ashamed of themselves.

 

[DabDab]

I did think of that colt (who is definitely on the extreme end of head shape) when I saw this thread. Is he fully grown yet? Their heads do 'dry out' as they grow so I'd like to see how he ends up looking, especially without his nostrils flaring. Also that pic shows the awful halter turnout with the shaved fur around the eyes and muzzle plus the copious greasy makeup that I referred to in post 6. Does he even have any eyelashes?

He's only 2 now, but it's still a prominent dish, though does seem to be relaxing a bit. https://orrionfarms.com/horse/el-rey-magnum-rcf/
Recent pics at the bottom of the page

 

[gryff]

TPO - she's my dream horse too - beautiful!😍😍
My first Arab was a high percentage Crabbet and she was unmistakably Arabian, but didn't have a dishy head at all. She was, in my eyes, the most beautiful creature on this planet.
I lost her suddenly to a broken leg, but needed another Arab in my life. My second mare is a totally different type. She's a mixture of Russian, crabbet and American breeding. She's got a pronounced dish. I think she's beautiful but appreciate that she's not everyone's cup of tea...I get comments about "that funny looking horse".

 

[TPO]

@gryff both of your girls are beautiful 😍

 

[LadyGascoyne]

There are some exceptionally beautiful Arabs on this threads.

As far as I understand, the traditional breed characteristics in the head are large eyes which are set to allow as little ‘blind spot’ in front as possible, larger nostrils and the jibbah bulge on the forehead for extra sinus capacity. I think the dish is resultant of the other characteristics.

I think the issue has been that trend has been to breed for the dish alone, not for the traits that had originally evolved to help the horse deal with life in harsh environments.

Mine is 80.2% arab and she has a very delicate dish, which I love.

 

[Cortez]

That colt is a grotesque example of what breeding for fashion causes. Poor thing. I love arabs, but for what is inside their heads, not what they look like (well, maybe a little bit....).

 

[HashRouge]

I think the extreme dish tends to be seen more in US bred horses (where in hand showing is big business) and it is predominantly a halter-bred thing. You look at a lot of the Arabs bred elsewhere and the standards are very different. A scroll through these photos (taken at the AHS national show this year) and you will see much more typical Arabian faces https://www.sweetphotography.com/f815940165

My old girl is a Padron granddaughter (this is one of the "big" names in El Rey Magnum's pedigree) but has a very different face!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thanks for the link DabDab.

Having read it and remembering some of the comments about scoring conformation during these halter competitions by people who wanted to make positive (for the horses) changes in the 'halter world' I think that there would be an easy way to improve things. Get rid of the 'best head' competition (which this colt in post 13 apparently won) and have a best legs competition instead.

 

[Steerpike]

One of my gang, probably the least likely looking Arab I have!

 

[meleeka]

I think the extreme dish tends to be seen more in US bred horses (where in hand showing is big business) and it is predominantly a halter-bred thing. You look at a lot of the Arabs bred elsewhere and the standards are very different. A scroll through these photos (taken at the AHS national show this year) and you will see much more typical Arabian faces https://www.sweetphotography.com/f815940165


My old girl is a Padron granddaughter (this is one of the "big" names in El Rey Magnum's pedigree) but has a very different face!

That’s a beautiful Arab ❤️. A delicate attractive head that hasn’t gone to the grotesque extremes of the colt above.

 

[Steerpike]

And my most recent purchase

 

[Mule]

I notice from watching YouTube that a lot of American male western riders have Arabs. A lot of these men are quite heavy. Does anyone know are Arabians genuine weight carriers because they are stronger than they look or should they have lighter riders?

 

[Rusty Rider]

Face shape depends on the type and female bloodline. Most flat race PA horses have a flat shape face, you can not see any curve.
Obviously I'm talking about real PA flat racehorses, some of French PA flat racehorses are not ''pure'' they have TB blood.Shame!
Crabbet is a different story. Some Crabbets have huge hoof. Crabbet is not a typical Arab

Slightly off topic but the French “Arabian” racehorses you refer to are Anglo-Arabian, which is a stand-alone breed created from crossing TBs and Arabians... they are not meant to be pure Arabians at all, the minimum to be registered on the main stud book is 25% Arabian, and those with less than that can be registered on the complementary ledger of the stud book...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I notice from watching YouTube that a lot of American male western riders have Arabs. A lot of these men are quite heavy. Does anyone know are Arabians genuine weight carriers because they are stronger than they look or should they have lighter riders?

A well conformed arab is strong and can probably carry more than many normal horse people in the UK think, but they can of course be overloaded like any horse.

Have a look at this thread. https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...d-weight-carrying-tests.670461/#post-12528496

 

[Chinchilla]

That colt is a grotesque example of what breeding for fashion causes. Poor thing. I love arabs, but for what is inside their heads, not what they look like (well, maybe a little bit....).

For anyone interested in what the extreme one grew up to be there's photos of him as a yearling/2yo on their website. https://orrionfarms.com/horse/el-rey-magnum-rcf/

Seems to have grown into the dish somewhat but it's still shocking. He's already covered mares as well so there'll be more overly extreme faces being produced

 

[Meowy Catkin]

T
Mine is 80.2% arab and she has a very delicate dish, which I love.

View attachment 37939

She is really beautiful.