Are horses too cheap

windand rain

windand rain

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Growing up I wanted a horse I was a very lucky child when dad bought me one,
Horse cost £150 and his leather saddle the same that was 50 years ago when average wage was about 15 per week if that taking average was as 500 per week now
So the value of that horse would now be 36 times more expensive so £5400 for an average four year old nondescript tb the price would be that for the lovely mare I wanted a 4 year old warmblood type she was 1000 so would now be about 36,000 so horses have been very much devalued over the years She was an ordinary riding horse nothing special but bred by a stud
You can still buy a horse similar to mine for between less than £1000 and £1500 so horses have been devalued by about 80% or more just rough off the top of my head figures and because of this are more affordable to the "average joe"
Not entirely a bad thing but perhaps they would be less disposable if they were of greater financial value.
Owning a horse is now cheaper than decent riding lessons too I learned to ride at a hacking center that cost 25p in new money per hour so lessons have certainly kept pace with inflation but horse rices and costs have not
If horses were more expensive and fewer people could afford them would their welfare improve long term Obviously not in the short term as there would be millions of horses that were unaffordable
 
YES! At last, a sensible argument! Horses used to be very, very expensive and thus only available to the wealthy, or landed gentry types that had acreage, and probably an inherited tradition of keeping horses - a bad thing, says most people on here I'm sure, but I'm not so sure.......

Perhaps it's not so much that horses are too cheap, but too numerous: supply and demand and all that.
 
There would still be owners who were bad people, regardless of money, so no. And as fewer people could afford to be involved, there would be less people to spot when a horse was in need. Also, charities for something that only wealthy people could have? Don't think that would work either, so fewer/perhaps no charities such as WHW, etc.
 
Cortez said:
WHW (formerly known as ILPH) was founded after the Boer War, more than 100 years ago.
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But in today's economy, would it ever have gotten off the ground? Would regular folk be willing to support it if they knew that they would never get anything back, and that only the rich could have horses? Or would they feel put out?

I do feel that many horses are under valued. But on the other hand, affordable livery is good, it lets me save for vet bills...

I am rather conflicted.
 
Or you could argue that the was a bit of a blip post WWII when horses were expensive items. My Gran's milk was delivered by horse in the 40s and I doubt it was an expensive beast. Black Beauty makes it pretty clear the 1880s were awash with cheap worn out horses.

Really interesting price comparison W R
 
I don't think restricting horse ownership to the wealthy is the best solution. There are as many heartless, thoughtless numpties among rich people as there are in the general population!
Valuing horses for what they are as opposed to just what they can do for us would be a start!
 
Oh, because there was never ANY horse cruelty before all us plebs starting buying horses :rolleyes:

Look, I know the welfare situation is very frustrating, but I hardly think snobbish comments are going to help. Welfare is not always due to a lack of money - many horses can be kept for relatively little - neglect is the issue in most cases. At the lower end of the scale, maybe horses are too cheap, and problems are caused by well-meaning but sadly ignorant people. But let's not forget that this is still a seriously expensive hobby, and one that brings joy to so many people. Nothing about horses is truly "cheap".
 
Apercrumbie said:
Oh, because there was never ANY horse cruelty before all us plebs starting buying horses :rolleyes:

Look, I know the welfare situation is very frustrating, but I hardly think snobbish comments are going to help. Welfare is not always due to a lack of money - many horses can be kept for relatively little - neglect is the issue in most cases. At the lower end of the scale, maybe horses are too cheap, and problems are caused by well-meaning but sadly ignorant people. But let's not forget that this is still a seriously expensive hobby, and one that brings joy to so many people. Nothing about horses is truly "cheap".
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But they ARE cheap if you don't actually provide any of the pesky things like food, worming, farrier care, etc. The divide is not caused by money/no money, posh/pleb, it's caused by it being too easy to just get a horse - and then not care for it.
 
Interesting; I looked at the invoice for when I sold my 2nd horse before uni (1999 I think) and he sold for much more money then as a teenager than you could get for a similar type/aged horse now. I think I'd be lucky to get £800-1000 or so purely because he was 15 in this day and age and he sold for quite a bit more than that.

Did people have more 'disposable' income in yesteryears to make such 'expensive' purchases? Were houses cheaper to buy/rent in comparison to how much people's salaries are now and buying/rental costs? Especially when you think that one income would be the norm then rather than both parties working to make ends meet. Or is it a case that there was cheaper land available to keep your horse on once purchased and thus once you had stumped up the cash for it running costs were comparatively low?
 
You can still get one but not care for it if you're rich! A horse standing in a posh stable isn't necessarily well or appropriately looked after. I just don't think price is the main factor. As you say there are too many and that has a big effect on price.
It has to start with reducing over breeding and education.
 
I think it is a catch 22. When horses are worth more money, more people get on the breeding bandwagon, there is a glut in the market, the values drop and horses suffer.

It is happening at the moment with certain types of 'breeder' for want of a better word, who are finding that there is little to no money in breeding and they have resorted to breeding designer dog breeds as the demand is still strong and money to be made.

I'd prefer to see horses bred selectively instead of indiscriminately as I think that this is the root of the problem, there are too many too easily available and too cheaply.

I also think that cost does have a bearing on the welfare, it is too easy for anyone to go out and pick up a cheap pony for the kids, there was one being kept in a garden shed on a council estate and fed vegetable peelings not so long ago, and how many teenagers go out and buy a horse simply because they can with no comprehension of the commitment needed. I'd rather horses cost more initially, simply so they were more valued and a considered purchase instead of impulse buy.
 
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Cortez said:
But they ARE cheap if you don't actually provide any of the pesky things like food, worming, farrier care, etc. The divide is not caused by money/no money, posh/pleb, it's caused by it being too easy to just get a horse - and then not care for it.
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This is the problem IMO, the gap between the cost of the horse and of its care, and how expensive decent lessons are relative to the cost of a horse.
 
Yes, good points touchstone. The thing is for me apart from the breeding, a horse should be valued for being well trained with good further education and experience. Most of us don't want a top competition or show horse, just a well trained horse to have fun with. Most good horses are made not born.
 
And generally, cheap horses need more care IME... But are less likely to be with people who can afford it, or know how to deal with it.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, we can't even afford the straight up cost of a horse at all and have only ever loaned until Smokes who was syndicated (right word?). And yet can afford the day to day costs and have enough knowledge and experience to deal with issues that arise. I know generalising is bad. But it is still accurate...
 
Horses are too cheap because there are an awful lot of idiots in the world who just won't stop breeding them - not only devaluing their own "stock" but also the stock of responsible breeders. But what does it matter to them - they cost nothing to keep as the fly graze on other people's land, they never call the vet or farrier, if one dies they just dump it at the side of the road. When you have 100s of horses which cost you little or nothing to keep, selling each one for £100 is fairly profitable I imagine.
 
Absolutely agree with you amandap; however when you have something that is so poorly bred that conformationally it will be predisposed to arthritic problems, struggle to carry a rider and never be able to perform well athletically, even for the average leisure rider, it destines it for a life of being trailed around the sale ring or one of discomfort and pain.

I'd love to see all horses bred so that they are capable of doing a days work, whether their owner chooses to or not.
 
I recently bought a green five year old he was just over £4000 and in my opinion very very cheap .
I the now some people that is not a cheap horse but in my world it is.
The fact is his purchase price is nothing in comparison to the cost of produceing him well over several years ( around 3 ) until he's ready to do the job I have bought him for.
If you spent £1000 on a horse the cost of caring for it will quickly overtake its cost
Many buyer just don't get this and thereby lies a lot of problem with the horse the one that does the suffering .
I used to try to advise such people it was really very hard it was clear they could not even afford to provide the bare basics properly .
Of course many people give very cheap or free horses great care but thats because they know horses or they are bright enough to learn and have the disposable income to care for one .
TBs often suffer badly they often a fair amount of intervention to keep them right and can be much more expensive to feed and house than other types .
I also have to agree with Lolo I have been told ,he was given to me because he was going to the meat man ,as if was a good excuse for keeping the poor creature clinging to life in entirely unsuitable conditions when the horse was clearly going to the meat man because it had numerous expensive to manage issues .
 
I can see what you mean.

I think it is good that they are cheaper now so that people with the knowledge but not so much money can have them...

...but I think they are now TOO cheap. Or rather, the lower end of the market is too cheap.

I baited some friends when I bought Barry, they thought that horses are mega expensive to buy and asked how much they are. I told them they could go to a sale and pick one up for a fiver. They were mostly flabbergasted.

Also got to say that in the old old days, people had horses, not cars. If I didn't have my car, I'd be £700/year better off for insurance, £30 for tax, and whatever my fuel costs me...and my car is cheap to run.

undergroundoli said:
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This is the problem IMO, the gap between the cost of the horse and of its care, and how expensive decent lessons are relative to the cost of a horse.
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Agree with this. People think why bother paying for lessons when they can get a horse for the same amount. They then never bother with lessons or learning anything else.
 
Horses being too cheap is the least of our worries

Electricity, cars, food - all too cheap, if you really valued how much it 'costs' to burn fossil fuels or mass produce food you'd pay what it actually costs. in reality the cost isn't paid by the consumer it's paid by the environment and by the poor

But then we don't value humans either so what makes you think we'd value animals

It's a sad world when a diamond (hunk of carbon) or shares in oil (imaginary economics) are worth more than things that really matter like health, well-being or family.
 
I have to say I was gobsmacked at how inexpensive it is to purchase a horse in the UK for what a comparable horse would be in the US. There are A LOT of nice quality horses for sale for not a lot of money here in the UK. The price of keeping a horse seems to be roughly the same-- which I also found surprising, given that so many things in the UK are sooo much more expensive ( houses, cars, petrol, electronics).

Where I came from in the US was and is "cowboy" country and having horses really split into 2 groups of people. Working class people keep horses, some actually work them on ranches, for other, it is a hobby/sport with local rodeos and shows to be found in nearly every small town nearly every weekend. These horses are well looked after, and ridden by people who are knowledgeable about horses. In small towns, just about everyone has horses and rides-- it is part of the cowboy culture if you will. At the other end are people who ride English, might pay to import a horse from Europe, and generally in a higher income bracket. But again, horses are well looked after, and represent a considerable investment of money. Here the horse is something of a status symbol, in a way it is not in the cowboy culture of having a horse.

There are of course backyard breeders and unscrupulous dealers -- but-- mostly you know who they are and who to avoid.

I only ever vetted one horse I bought in the US, and that was for purposes of insuring him--a showjumper, back when I aspired to bigger and better and higher and higher... I never even thought to vet the others, it just wasn't done. And perhaps I was just extremely lucky, but never ever had any problems with them at all in terms of soundness. Some of them came with some known "issues", but again, those were upfront and disclosed.

The horse market here is an eye opener for me. I have learned a lot in a short time in my horse shopping adventure. Mostly it has been pleasant, even with disappointments along the way-- I have found people to be very kind and helpful.
But yes, the cost of purchasing a horse here is surprisingly inexpensive!!!!
 
Ultimately they will become more expensive.

If you calculate the cost of breeding an average sport horse by the time it is four years old it must have cost someone nearly £5000 - £1000 for keep of mare for one year while pregnant and £1000 x 4 for the four years of its growing time. I do not know anyone who can keep anything for less than that and do it properly ie feed, farrier, vaccinate, odd vets bill etc etc. At this point we have not allowed for the cost of the mare, the cost of getting her in foal or the cost of backing, breaking or schooling! However in UK,unlike a lot of Europe, we have a huge supply of overbred native types, a lot of irish imports and a lot of TB out of the racing industry. Many of these will make good riding horses but a huge number will not but they cloud the sport horse market. I know of many many horse owners who spend a fortune keeping their much loved horses but they never actually achieve what they hoped they would as the horses are not really suited to their job or even in many cases their lifestyle.

I know that in the 1970's I sold horses for between 7 and 10K that today I would find hard to sell for 5k - inflation has gone up hugely in that time and so have costs.

Yes I still breed in a very small and very selective way for my own use and luckily, rarely have very much to sell into the riding horse world.
 
touchstone said:
Absolutely agree with you amandap; however when you have something that is so poorly bred that conformationally it will be predisposed to arthritic problems, struggle to carry a rider and never be able to perform well athletically, even for the average leisure rider, it destines it for a life of being trailed around the sale ring or one of discomfort and pain.

I'd love to see all horses bred so that they are capable of doing a days work, whether their owner chooses to or not.
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I do agree poor quality or too close breeding is a problem but also agree with Goldenstar's point about TBs (for eg) having a lot of intervention to keep them right or working. So many horses are injured or have other problems, they can't all be due to conformation it must be use as well?
 
amandap said:
I do agree poor quality or too close breeding is a problem but also agree with Goldenstar's point about TBs (for eg) having a lot of intervention to keep them right or working. So many horses are injured or have other problems, they can't all be due to conformation it must be use as well?
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Yes it is use as well, which I think makes the whole conformation thing even more important - a well put together horse/pony isn't just to be easy on the eye, but so that he remains sound and workable for as long as possible. I didn't pay a huge amount for my mare, but I did make sure that she was reasonably well put together and had a good temperament, and as much as I love all horses, be they cow hocked, weedy, ewe necked or whatever, I think that we owe it to them to try to ensure that they are as healthy as they can be.
It's horses for courses too I suppose, if you are competitive then go for a higher maintenance blood horse or WB, or if you're a happy hacker then a good all rounder/cob/native will do the job you want for less maintenance/cost.

There is a field at the top of my village full of coloured mares, they throw a foal every year and the stallion is always in with them, the mares change every few years and I'm pretty sure they get taken to Appleby, but that field alone must produce dozens of foals into an already saturated market. These are the smaller coloured cob types, which apparently are fashionable at the moment, but once they are out of fashion then I expect the majority will end up goodness knows where.
 
Yes I think they are. I remember some 30+ years ago dragging my parents to see a friend's friend's pony that was for sale he was a 13hh Welsh C from memory. Average sort of pony. Up for £500, probably about the same as he would be if it were today.
Parents didn't buy... took another c30 years before I finally got a pony 😊
I suspect the costs of keep though are massively different.
Should add though that the amount I spend on my mortgage and the amount my parents did have also changed significantly... all a bit topsy turvey!
 
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After working for an animal rescue centre for almost 7 years I can tell you that it has nothing to do with money! I have seen the wealthiest of people treat their animals cruelly because 'this one is broken so we got a new one' and someone else who was working 2 jobs just to make sure that her horses had the best of everything. It isn't about wealth, if someone wanted a horse they would find a way to buy one.....I did......its about someone having a sense of responsibility and a decent conscious.

The sympathy in humans has decreased over the years as has the ability for empathy, this is why people are seeing more abuse (in people and humans). People need to be taught that yes animals have feelings and deserve to be treated a certain way! I think the best answer would be education in animals welfare rather than limiting owner possibilities to the rich. Same with the dangerous dogs act, have a license for people to own these animals, they are taking on the responsibility for another life, surely there should be some kind of authority to do so?
 
I got my boy super cheap £200- very accessible I guess. However, he is the most cherished and well looked after horse.... should he not have been sold that cheap to me?
 
Over breeding of any animal mean it becomes accessible to those who buy animals on a whim because it's cheap and so easy to get hold of. It is a novelty.

Being in the herpetological world I have seen it time and time again. Specifically with Bearded Dragons. They used to be an expensive specialist pet not too long ago and literally in the last 10years I have seen such prolific over breeding because it's easy and exciting that they have gone from a £70-£100 lizard to being a £10 bargain basement anyone can come and get on novelty for quite frankly IDIOTS.

That £10 novelty pet if cared for correctly should cost £12000 in its 7-12 year lifetime but nobody wants to pay that so they are horrifically neglected.dumped.and passed on.

Sorry about go on about reptiles but it explains my point perfectly and it's what I know best :D
 
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