Are owners less able or willing to deal with things with horses themselves.

[Kaylum]

it just surprises me that none of this seems to be taught even in the riding schools??? I remember we would have "learning nights" which would be focused on bandaging, fitting tack, braiding, etc. This was many many years ago and not in this country and you wouldn't be an expert on doing any of these by the end but you would come away with at least some basic knowledge

Absolutely agree when we had a riding school we did stable management lessons and had very little interest. People just wanted to come and ride. If they paid for a 1 hour lesson they just wanted to hop onboard.

The very enthusiastic child would come and help to get free rides. But they also gained a lot of knowledge.

It is a while ago now but I was looking in a local tack shop for a 6" French link bit for my ID. I was offered a Dr Bristol!
Not by the owner who I'm sure would have known the difference but by the middle-aged horse owner who worked there on Sundays. I was surprised that she had so little knowledge.
Its a good job that knew what I needed, a less experienced customer could easily have been sold a more severe bit than they were looking for.

Also, the saddle-fitter complimented me when I pointed out the lumpy flocking that I was asking her to rectify. She told me that many owners wouldn't have recognised the problem. I was amazed as it was obvious and I am not the most diligent tack cleaner

Dr Bristol v French Link you might want to do some research on the action. Lots of research has been done on how these fit in the mouth when being ridden.

 

[Ceifer]

I’m not sure if it’s just me but I worked with horses for years and making a decision about other people’s horses I am fine with. I ran a rehab yard and yard manager on an eventing yard. I dealt with a lot of issues.
However, these days I am an owner with my horses at home and I dither and worry about my own horses . Case in point the thread I put up about my horse being fussy eating and as others have pointed out, it’s probably just the grass.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Not everyone had the privilege to grow up in a horsey family. Or to go to Pony Club. Or have access to decent riding schools.

As an adult without a horse not looking to do horses for a living, I don't think it's easy to get solid experience and learning. I've had some good opportunities but really sought them out because I am a total horse nerd and I very much do want to learn!

Lots of RS aim their activities at children but there's not so much for adults. I tried volunteering at two RS as an adult but these were not particularly good, welcoming, or educational experiences. I do look out for horse care days but these seem few and far between, and tbh some I think are very expensive for what they offer.

I'm less keen on the BHS Stages because they do seem more for those wanting to work professionally on a yard. In theory the Challenge Awards would be good but not many places seem to actually offer these.

I agree with @Snowfilly there are going to be things that are less easily picked up; you can learn the theory around lameness and first aid etc. but putting them into practice might take a lot longer. I had a lunging lesson a while ago as this is one of my goals to learn this year, helpfully (though also unfortunately!) my instructor was lunging a horse who was slightly unsound right after my lesson so I stayed to watch and learned lots from that.

 

[SEL]

I'd use a bit fitter - but then maybe that's because I've done the NS bit fitting certificate so I'm conscious as to my lack of knowledge!! Nothing like doing a course on something to open your eyes to how little you really do know.

I went to a clinic at a RS the other week. The clients weren't allowed in the stables, they have to wait in a pen to be called forward for their lesson. I thought it was thoroughly depressing. 3 little girls who face lit up as I led baby cob past them who would have loved to be in the yard grooming, tacking up etc. Such a shame.

 

[Snowfilly]

I'd use a bit fitter - but then maybe that's because I've done the NS bit fitting certificate so I'm conscious as to my lack of knowledge!! Nothing like doing a course on something to open your eyes to how little you really do know.

I went to a clinic at a RS the other week. The clients weren't allowed in the stables, they have to wait in a pen to be called forward for their lesson. I thought it was thoroughly depressing. 3 little girls who face lit up as I led baby cob past them who would have loved to be in the yard grooming, tacking up etc. Such a shame.

There’s a school near me which does a lot of kids lessons and they only let the kids ride. No tacking up, untacking or grooming. They are allowed to dismount, slacken the girth and run the stirrups up but have to hand the pony over to a staff member then. And this applies all the way up to the teenagers.

They do do stable management lessons but what kid is ever going to beg and pester for those? And for parents who know they can’t afford a pony, it may seem like a waste of time to do theory lessons.

 

[suestowford]

Many years ago, when we were thinking of moving to a place with our own land, we decided it would be a good idea to learn how to look after a pony, seeing as we were both weekend riders with the local stables. I had done basic pony care before, but OH hadn't. So we did a weekend course where we learned how to do Stuff. Lots of practical hands-on experience, one of the horses even got cast while we were there so we got an impromptu lesson in how to safely right a cast horse. I still have the manual we took home afterwards and still use it if I want to know something.
Then, when I did get my first horse, I had a lovely knowledgeable neighbour who helped me if I didn't know how to do something. I can do basic first aid, poultice a hoof, I have pulled a shoe once! But I hope I also know when it's time to call in a professional. I will admit that I failed to take clinical signs when my pony was so ill, he was so wild with pain it took me 20 mins to get a headcollar on him and by then the vet had arrived so I let her do it.

I've always believed that knowledge is power, the more you know, the better able you are to make good decisions.

 

[lynz88]

There’s a school near me which does a lot of kids lessons and they only let the kids ride. No tacking up, untacking or grooming. They are allowed to dismount, slacken the girth and run the stirrups up but have to hand the pony over to a staff member then. And this applies all the way up to the teenagers.

They do do stable management lessons but what kid is ever going to beg and pester for those? And for parents who know they can’t afford a pony, it may seem like a waste of time to do theory lessons.

this is really sad to read.

 

[sport horse]

I grew up in a non horsey family but I also grew up in an age when DIY was non existant. I kept my horse in a livery yard where the YO reigned supreme and kept us on the straight and narrow. My yard owner taught me how to clip, how to manage a tricky horse (sedatives & dope did not exist either) how to manage minor wounds and when to call vet. We did not have google and we did not argue with the yard owner - she knew! I went to Pony Club and did my tests - ALL of them including my A test. I joined a riding club and we had lectures on all aspects of horse management. My farrier taught me to take a shoe off.

We learned from those who knew not those who think they know.

 

[scats]

The great thing about growing up on a huge yard and staying there for 21 years was that there wasn’t much I didn’t see.
It gave me a decent knowledge of how to deal with smaller issues and things like twisted shoes, aswell as how to deal with the bigger things and when to call the vet.

I think in some cases there are people who call the vet too readily… and those who don’t call them when they really should!

 

[Barton Bounty]

it just surprises me that none of this seems to be taught even in the riding schools??? I remember we would have "learning nights" which would be focused on bandaging, fitting tack, braiding, etc. This was many many years ago and not in this country and you wouldn't be an expert on doing any of these by the end but you would come away with at least some basic knowledge

Im not from a horsey family, in fact my mum has only ridden a couple of times when i was a child on holidays.
I learnt most of my stuff from a very hard faced stern woman at the local riding school and I could never thank her enough. Riding schools are not the same now. I used to stay there for the whole weekend. Only stopping to eat sleep or pee.
Started at 10 cleaning tack, she would make us make a bridle up blindfolded. she and the other grooms used to learn us a lot.
She learned us everything from scratch. Especially falling off a 17hh and getting flung back on. Wipe your eyes and get back up there.

 

[gallopingby]

Well I'm going to disagree with the bit/bridle comments! I am neither lacking in knowledge or unwilling to learn. In fact that is why I have booked an appointment with one! For context I have decades of riding/owning experience (competing, schooling, selling), and have worked professionally on yards. I do dentistry on horses most days, and have a good knowledge of anatomy and physiology. I have 40 or 50 bits in my tackroom and understand the principles of how they work. My current horse goes OK in his bit, but I think that he is not yet in the perfect bit for him. There are so many minor variations in bits now - brands, materials, angles, lozenge size/angle, curved/not-curved, tongue pressure/tongue relief etc. etc. I figure it could take me a year or more to go through all the different variables and work out exactly which is the optimum bit for him. If I can cut that process short and get to the end point more quickly and cheaply then that for me is worth consulting a specialist for. And I will add to my knowledge bank in the process.

Like someone else said, the people who think they have it all sussed are the people least likely to have an open mind and seek further education.

I agree as far as training and experience BUT many of the new “experts” don’t have the experience they suggest. There are far too many 2 or 3 day courses equal to perhaps 8 hours learning that some people think will set you up to become an expert overnight.

 

[Gamebird]

I agree as far as training and experience BUT many of the new “experts” don’t have the experience they suggest. There are far too many 2 or 3 day courses equal to perhaps 8 hours learning that some people think will set you up to become an expert overnight.

And that is where I can use my experience to evaluate!

 

[lynz88]

Im not from a horsey family, in fact my mum has only ridden a couple of times when i was a child on holidays.
I learnt most of my stuff from a very hard faced stern woman at the local riding school and I could never thank her enough. Riding schools are not the same now. I used to stay there for the whole weekend. Only stopping to eat sleep or pee.
Started at 10 cleaning tack, she would make us make a bridle up blindfolded. she and the other grooms used to learn us a lot.
She learned us everything from scratch. Especially falling off a 17hh and getting flung back on. Wipe your eyes and get back up there.

I'm about the furthest from a horsey family as one can be. My mom is nervous around horses and doesn't have the desire to be around them in any way and my dad? Well....that's another story but suffice to say he didn't have any participation either. Your bringing up doesn't seem too different from mine, really. I learned a lot of stuff from some very, otherwise scary and tough, people. I just call them old time farmers...others call them rude and abrasive nowadays . It wasn't a "proper" riding lesson barn in that we weren't riding school horses, we were riding provincial level competition horses.

I later moved to a riding lesson barn that was closer where they had these learning nights from time to time. I also did my Ontario Equestrian Federation Rider Level 1 and 2 (under the 1-3 old system before they changed it to 10 levels in what I am presuming to be a money grab). We had specific "learning and studying and practical" days to prep for rider level testing as well. The examiners were always old school horse people that were tough in their assessments. It was as a time that, if you were doing lessons, it was because you loved and wanted to be around horses and to learn. No social media "look at me" BS that is of today.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

We learned from those who knew not those who think they know.

Absolutely this!
As a kid I was very fortunate to get on our PC horsemanship team (for those who are puzzled, it's a full day quiz of everything horse, from ailments, treatments, feeds, rugging, plaiting, clipping, shoeing, etc etc) 3 yrs on the trot. Knowledge was gained from super stalwarts who ran tight ships. I did PC tests to A and stage 4, picked up II along the way too. But, as was pointed out to me recently by a young person, that was years ago and things have changed..... so I'm not just ancient but apparently wont have retained much in my noggin

I'd like to think I have a reasonable grasp of most things equine, but I'm still keen to expand my brain for new treatments.and ways of doing things.
I do know that if I phone my vet for a non routine visit, they know its needed, pref 10 mins ago....

 

[4Hoofed]

I can take a shoe off!!! Haha and frequently have done for other people! I’m 32 but my first farrier when I was a teen used to give me a discount if I took the shoes off (under his vague supervision once he taught me!) as he’d often be shoeing half the rs and dealers yard on one day and it gave him time to have a cuppa!!! But I don’t think
You’d get away with that these days! It does come in handy on a livery yard though especially if you have friends with TBs.

I think it’s hard sometimes, I’m genuinely quite independent and self sufficient and know if it’s an abscess or something else but especially when other people are asking for their horses you have to air on the side of caution as these days the blame game is strong and often published on social media and far reaching!

I also agree there seems to be no middle ground these days though. A lady on our yard likes horses but no real experience. Daughter did two years of lessons and is now the proud owner of a 2 year old cob gelding and yearling cob colt and filly. They are a tall and big boned family and think these ponies are going to be 15hh…. If any of them name 13 hands I’ll eat my hat. But even in the Information Age no one wants to research. I went to equine uni (dropped out without my degree but still some of it stuck ) worked on yards from
11 - 24, and am constantly asking for help from those who know better. I’ve done stud work and now have my second foal, you can only offer to help people so much before you’ve got to let them sink or swim! But I find in our area, there’s a lot of cheap and cheerful yards where it’s more a glaring lack of knowledge but also professional input. The horse could be thrashing on the ground and folks will see if popping him in for the night and see how he feels in a few days before even considering talking to the vet!

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’m happy to do lots of things. I’ll remove a shoe if I can, I don’t have tools. Perhaps I should.
I’d call a vet for lots of blood, ongoing colic- as I’n I’d monitor, bute etc for a short time if mild.
Happy to inject muscular but not IV, never tried never been shown.
Ok to remove stitches, redo big bandages (ie- fractures or tendons that has been cast and need changing)
All the usual poulticing and that regular stuff.

I call a vet for eyes. I call a vet for sudden severe lameness.
I call a vet with my little pony if he go’s footy and I’m not feeling pulses or there’s no reason for him to get sore.

I have a brilliant vet who I feel very able to call and run things past if I am unsure without feeling like she will take me for a ride which is worth a lot.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Absolutely agree when we had a riding school we did stable management lessons and had very little interest. People just wanted to come and ride. If they paid for a 1 hour lesson they just wanted to hop onboard.

The very enthusiastic child would come and help to get free rides. But they also gained a lot of knowledge.

Dr Bristol v French Link you might want to do some research on the action. Lots of research has been done on how these fit in the mouth when being ridden.

No thank you, I don't. I no longer have the ID, she was sadly pts aged 11 several years ago. I am 2 horses further on now and don't wish to use either of them, on my current cob. I am aware that there has been research published since then but *at the time* the received wisdom was that Dr Bristol was the more severe. My point was that a member of staff at the tack shop thought they were the same/interchangeable. They aren't.

 

[webble]

I can deal with most basic things but sometimes I'd rather just spend the £50-£100 to make sure I've not missed something/got it wrong

This, touch wood it's so rare I have to deal with an issue that I'm out of practice or not confident with things

 

[honetpot]

No one in our family had horses and I learnt to ride mainly from and book in the school library, and it was trial and error, and no one taught me how to put on bridle, I think I just watched someone else. What really taught me a lot was a year on a Connemara stud, with hunter liveries, every thing was done old school, and that's when I became interested in dressage. We were taught to take off a shoe and check legs for brambles, thorns etc and bandage neatly but not to tightly, as a standard, at sixteen.

I think people have to a degree have been made frightened of life, and this not includes horsecare but human health care, proffessionals literally have a job by making people dependant in their advice, some of it conflicting and come with a sales pitch. I think most people are inteligent enough to do basic human and health care, with a basic standard well researched text book. Perhaps its not about knowledge but sell it as saving money, and stop buying matchy matchy tat.

No one who has a baby has training, you read a book, ask advice, ignore some of it and do what works for you, and most end up as adults. Yes some need outside professional help if something is really wrong, but that is not normal day to day care. I do think you need to stand and watch and learn what normal looks like, and chill a bit.

 

[Cloball]

I’m not sure if it’s just me but I worked with horses for years and making a decision about other people’s horses I am fine with. I ran a rehab yard and yard manager on an eventing yard. I dealt with a lot of issues.
However, these days I am an owner with my horses at home and I dither and worry about my own horses . Case in point the thread I put up about my horse being fussy eating and as others have pointed out, it’s probably just the grass.

Not nearly that experience but it was a total shock to me how different it would feel being my own. Plus I have a background in medicine and I tend toward the worst case scenario sometimes too much is not a good thing ponio has a habit of finding things out of my comfort zone... Like when half her face swelled up

I used to be frequently surprised how little people understood about their own health and physiology so it in no way surprises me.

 

[teapot]

Not everyone had the privilege to grow up in a horsey family. Or to go to Pony Club. Or have access to decent riding schools.

As an adult without a horse not looking to do horses for a living, I don't think it's easy to get solid experience and learning. I've had some good opportunities but really sought them out because I am a total horse nerd and I very much do want to learn!

Lots of RS aim their activities at children but there's not so much for adults. I tried volunteering at two RS as an adult but these were not particularly good, welcoming, or educational experiences. I do look out for horse care days but these seem few and far between, and tbh some I think are very expensive for what they offer.

I'm less keen on the BHS Stages because they do seem more for those wanting to work professionally on a yard. In theory the Challenge Awards would be good but not many places seem to actually offer these.

I agree with @Snowfilly there are going to be things that are less easily picked up; you can learn the theory around lameness and first aid etc. but putting them into practice might take a lot longer. I had a lunging lesson a while ago as this is one of my goals to learn this year, helpfully (though also unfortunately!) my instructor was lunging a horse who was slightly unsound right after my lesson so I stayed to watch and learned lots from that.

Challenge awards were literally introduced for that reason (and to make some money). Issue is they're fiddly to offer from an admin point of view, even for the training centres. It may well have changed, but I seem to remember I had to ring HQ to say we want to run them, coach doing them is an APC, what do we need to pay and ended up having to send cheques to get the booklets sent out etc. It was a lot of faff for not much reward (the platinum ones are equivalent to Stage 1)

My advice - find a willing APC within a rs environment and see if they can sort directly. Such a shame they ditched the Horse Owners' cert.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I think some of the things mentioned are perhaps better left to the professionals if not sure.
I freelanced for a couple of years though previous to my job now and was shocked at how many people on livery don’t k ow very basic things about their horse. Not it’s regular pulse but it’s regular feed or rugs or just what’s normal behaviour for their particular horse.

 

[KatieDM]

Your riding school sounds ace. As an adult returner to riding, none of the riding schools I went to offered any kind of additional sessions other than riding, unless you wanted to do the BHS stages, which they marketed as for people wanting to learn to teach. The kids sessions that had 'stable management' tacked onto them were focused on grooming and points of a horse.

Same experience as an adult returner. And my riding school now just doesn’t have the same atmosphere like I remember at the one I went to growing up. I don’t feel especially ‘welcomed’. I would jump at the chance to do some proper stable management / care / first aid type refresher and would absolutely sign up to any courses or sessions. Looks like BHS stages (£££) is the only real option, alongside a loan or share horse! Equally, I’d feel a bit daft booking onto their standard stable management course, as I feel they’re aimed at kids or complete novices, which I’m not. There’s definitely a gap for something.

I also think red tape, health & safety, licensing etc. is a factor in how things are now.

 

[Smogul]

This, touch wood it's so rare I have to deal with an issue that I'm out of practice or not confident with things

Totally agree with this. Was once shown how to take off a twisted shoe but have never had to do it and would not have the tools or the strength. Maybe farriers are better these days so it happens less often? Only once had a horse with an abscess. As it wasn't obvious why he was lame, we got the vet.

 

[Carlosmum]

I grew up in the pony club and went through my tests, passed B test then go too busy to do any more. I feel I have enough knowledge to deal with minor horsey hiccups, but sometimes will call he vet for the reassurance of the 'professional'. IME riding schools now longer teach management as part of regular lessons. I am involved in a RS that has been running for nearly 60 yrs. The children don't have the knowledge that they used to. I blame this not in the individual instructor but the BHS exam system. The different stages leading up to a qualification in teaching, don't allow for teaching the children to ride properly or how to care for a pony. It seems to be all about how you can make your pony work in an outline or go sideways etc. There no longer seems to be the chance of learning about the points of the pony, doing half scissors or round the world. A few months ago I took a lesson at the RS ( the first in many years) the children looked at me blankly when asked to circle to the back of the ride, or halt the pony at the back till the ride caught up. 'Oh we always work in 'open order'' was their reply. I think its such a shame the old ways seem to be on the way out. I'm sure we were better riders for it.

 

[teapot]

I grew up in the pony club and went through my tests, passed B test then go too busy to do any more. I feel I have enough knowledge to deal with minor horsey hiccups, but sometimes will call he vet for the reassurance of the 'professional'. IME riding schools now longer teach management as part of regular lessons. I am involved in a RS that has been running for nearly 60 yrs. The children don't have the knowledge that they used to. I blame this not in the individual instructor but the BHS exam system. The different stages leading up to a qualification in teaching, don't allow for teaching the children to ride properly or how to care for a pony. It seems to be all about how you can make your pony work in an outline or go sideways etc. There no longer seems to be the chance of learning about the points of the pony, doing half scissors or round the world. A few months ago I took a lesson at the RS ( the first in many years) the children looked at me blankly when asked to circle to the back of the ride, or halt the pony at the back till the ride caught up. 'Oh we always work in 'open order'' was their reply. I think its such a shame the old ways seem to be on the way out. I'm sure we were better riders for it.

You're assuming it's the system, and not instead just a bad coach. That to me is more likely a lacking in inspiration kids' coach or b) possibly an insurance thing depending on the level of cover the rs has, some HAVE got too scared to do anything in case a parent sues.

There's absolutely nothing in the first coaching exam about working a horse in an outline. Anyone who's done the Stage 2 teach, the old PTT, knows a third of it is literally giving a fun lead rein lesson to a child too.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I grew up in the pony club and went through my tests, passed B test then go too busy to do any more. I feel I have enough knowledge to deal with minor horsey hiccups, but sometimes will call he vet for the reassurance of the 'professional'. IME riding schools now longer teach management as part of regular lessons. I am involved in a RS that has been running for nearly 60 yrs. The children don't have the knowledge that they used to. I blame this not in the individual instructor but the BHS exam system. The different stages leading up to a qualification in teaching, don't allow for teaching the children to ride properly or how to care for a pony. It seems to be all about how you can make your pony work in an outline or go sideways etc. There no longer seems to be the chance of learning about the points of the pony, doing half scissors or round the world. A few months ago I took a lesson at the RS ( the first in many years) the children looked at me blankly when asked to circle to the back of the ride, or halt the pony at the back till the ride caught up. 'Oh we always work in 'open order'' was their reply. I think its such a shame the old ways seem to be on the way out. I'm sure we were better riders for it.

Not so long ago , I bumped into the daughter of my 1st RI, who is a few years younger than I am. She is now the chief RI at the family run RS. She was talking about the fact that children mainly do not ride often enough to develop muscle memory, often only having a lesson fortnightly or monthly. She also said that children are not as brave as we were. If we were taken to ride 'in the field' rather than in the school, we were delighted, as we knew that the less capable or beginner riders weren't allowed that privilege. Now she has children bursting into tears at the thought of riding in the field.

 

[palo1]

Its good that we are developing some areas of specialised knowledge and there are folks that are very keen to learn and want to take some responsibility for most aspects of their horse's care but along with the 'it's supposed to be fun' (rather than, perhaps, fufilling) and the total commoditization of our leisure, personal development and equestrian culture, the state of our national horsemanship is often absolutely woeful.

I do know someone who consults an expert for every single aspect of their 5 competition horse's care. I don't think this person can do anything independently and I really wonder what they do know in fact. I think we absolutely owe it to animals in our care to develop knowledge and practical expertise where that doesn't involve emergency or skilled veterinary input. But then you need to know when that is the case to start with!I

Every one should know basic first aid, including how to remove a shoe, how a saddle should fundamentally fit, also a bridle and bit, how and what to feed a horse, how to safely fitten and work a horse and how to ride basic correct movements. People should know when to rug a horse and how to check the fit of a rug and what is normal generally, and normal for their horses. There are other things but you get my gist! Like I say, sometimes the state of our equestrian culture seems woeful.

 

[ecb89]

Not so long ago , I bumped into the daughter of my 1st RI, who is a few years younger than I am. She is now the chief RI at the family run RS. She was talking about the fact that children mainly do not ride often enough to develop muscle memory, often only having a lesson fortnightly or monthly. She also said that children are not as brave as we were. If we were taken to ride 'in the field' rather than in the school, we were delighted, as we knew that the less capable or beginner riders weren't allowed that privilege. Now she has children bursting into tears at the thought of riding in the field.

It’s not just the kids who are scared it’s also the parents. They don’t want to put their kids at any risk.

 

[HopOnTrot]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with paying professionals to do a job, I could decorate my house but an expert will do a much better job