Are people too busy to be courteous?

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Brownie in Bahrain

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I haven’t lived in the UK for many years, my daughter however has insisted on living in 'Gods Own Country' of West Yorkshire where she loves the people and the countryside.

After completing her level 3 in equine management she now settled in Holmfirth and looking for employment.

I cannot believe the number of positions she’s applied for where she’s just not heard anything back.. A well renowned veterinary practice, a long established feed producer and a popular kennels to name just 3!

She had a job and livery lined up for after college but, with just a month to go, the person found someone else. She was in touch with a yard and arranged to visit, turned up and the yard owner had forgotten she was coming, can she come back another day! Another yard ghosted her all summer after offering her weekend work. She went for a trial at a yard and after 7hrs work it was mutually decided she didn’t fit and they paid her just £40, way below minimum wage.

She applied for a yard close by, got shortlist and then did a trial day. Since then she’s heard nothing! I get that they obviously found someone else but to just not contact her..

I know it’s a difficult time for our young kids and especially in this industry but these experiences are denting her confidence.

Can anyone offer advice on what she should do please? She’s reluctant to sign on, if that’s what it’s called these days!
 
I don’t know how old your daughter is, but it might be worth speaking to the British racing school if she’s interested in working in horse racing. It has recognised qualifications, industry training which is free for under 19s and sometimes free too for older new entrants, and it has a staff union. I would suggest also stop working full days as trial periods unless it is agreed she in writing that she will be paid for national minimum wage. She is essentially working for them for that day for free not being interviewed for the position. Good luck.
 
smolmaus said:
I do think poor communications is endemic these days. Too many ways to communicate, WhatsApp, FB messenger etc are all too easy to ignore and treat as just chatter rather than professional comms.
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Too true. Having been it in the position of receiving multiple emails/FB/WhatsApp messages etc for one job ad, it is really time consuming to answer every one. So many of the applications were just standard and poor quality, with no effort made to tailor the application to the specific job. Part of the problem is job seekers are often required to make a specific number of applications, with no thought to how relevant the jobs are to the jobseeker.


I am sorry your daughter is having problems. How is she making her applications?
 
The job market is a bloody nightmare, for everyone. I really do feel for your daughter. Since the advent of AI where CVS get run through a matching system before anyone even reads them you can find yourself 'on the scrap pile' and being ignored through not fault of your own other than not using the words the system wants to match. If you've no real experience of the field you want to get into it's even worse. Too much is automated these days with recruitment and some employers even advertise roles that don't even exist and don't update or take down their ads when a position has been filled. Recruitment agencies are the pits too, all over you when they're trying to push you into something and the minute you get dropped for whatever reason (no one gives feedback, believe me I've tried until I'm blue in the face to get it) they don't even take your calls or answer emails. If you should be disabled or older, no matter how experienced you might be then you get no help from anyone - again been there and found out the hard way. There are people up and down the country trying to get employment and being treated like 💩it's not just your daughter.

Sorry everyone that turned into a rant, it just happens to be a subject that winds me up!
 
Smogul said:
Too true. Having been it in the position of receiving multiple emails/FB/WhatsApp messages etc for one job ad, it is really time consuming to answer every one. So many of the applications were just standard and poor quality, with no effort made to tailor the application to the specific job. Part of the problem is job seekers are often required to make a specific number of applications, with no thought to how relevant the jobs are to the jobseeker.


I am sorry your daughter is having problems. How is she making her applications?
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Sorry you're finding it difficult to do your job. 'Time consuming' oh what a problem to have!

Spare a thought for the applicants many of whom will be desperate for a job in order to be able to pay their bills or get started on a career. Sure you'll get applications that might not be up to your standards because some faceless person in government sets targets for those on benefits. But also bear in mind that there are genuine people caught in that net, not just what the media perceives as 'the work shy'. If an applicant has sent in something you think is rubbish would it really hurt so badly to let them at least have a bit of feedback so they can improve for another time? Or explain why someone hasn't been offered a position after interview rather than a blanket 'we thought the other person was a better fit' or even worse the 'sorry to your application has been unsuccessful' and no indication at all as to why.

Another rant, I think I'd better leave this thread before I really upset someone.
 
Because a lot of the applications for jobs are online, there are sometimes literally thousands of applications, usually completely inappropriate for the job.

There seems to be a culture of just sending a CV into literally any job, and a lot of them are overseas applicants even when the job states it is open to applicants with the right to work in the UK only.

I think this has meant that replying to all applicants has become almost impossible, and the initial CV round is seen as screening rather than an actual two way engagement with an applicant.

It's sad but having seen what my HR team have to deal with in terms of huge volumes totally unsuitable applicants (think people who have only finished high school applying for Heads of scientific disciplines) one can imagine what smaller companies are dealing with.

It's very very hard but I hope it casts a different light for your poor daughter. I know it's disheartening but it's highly unlikely to be any kind of reflection on her, rather the times and the culture developing around applying for jobs.
 
Completely empathise, employers are being inundated because when signed on you have to demonstrate the number of applications made…not the quality and relevance to your skills. Shame she s not closer I’m in need of a freelancer and whilst not full time would have given her fuel and some spends.
 
humblepie said:
I don’t know how old your daughter is, but it might be worth speaking to the British racing school if she’s interested in working in horse racing. It has recognised qualifications, industry training which is free for under 19s and sometimes free too for older new entrants, and it has a staff union. I would suggest also stop working full days as trial periods unless it is agreed she in writing that she will be paid for national minimum wage. She is essentially working for them for that day for free not being interviewed for the position. Good luck.
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She’s 18, I’ll speak to her about this. Thank you 🙏
 
smolmaus said:
She should sign on! She's entitled to it and she's actively jobseeking!

I do think poor communications is endemic these days. Too many ways to communicate, WhatsApp, FB messenger etc are all too easy to ignore and treat as just chatter rather than professional comms
Click to expand...

I keep telling her that! Hopefully I’ll get through to her, they’ll help her find employment too.
 
Smogul said:
Too true. Having been it in the position of receiving multiple emails/FB/WhatsApp messages etc for one job ad, it is really time consuming to answer every one. So many of the applications were just standard and poor quality, with no effort made to tailor the application to the specific job. Part of the problem is job seekers are often required to make a specific number of applications, with no thought to how relevant the jobs are to the jobseeker.


I am sorry your daughter is having problems. How is she making her applications?
Click to expand...
She’s applying on indeed, via Facebook groups and just sending her details to yards & businesses in her area.
 
3OldPonies said:
The job market is a bloody nightmare, for everyone. I really do feel for your daughter. Since the advent of AI where CVS get run through a matching system before anyone even reads them you can find yourself 'on the scrap pile' and being ignored through not fault of your own other than not using the words the system wants to match. If you've no real experience of the field you want to get into it's even worse. Too much is automated these days with recruitment and some employers even advertise roles that don't even exist and don't update or take down their ads when a position has been filled. Recruitment agencies are the pits too, all over you when they're trying to push you into something and the minute you get dropped for whatever reason (no one gives feedback, believe me I've tried until I'm blue in the face to get it) they don't even take your calls or answer emails. If you should be disabled or older, no matter how experienced you might be then you get no help from anyone - again been there and found out the hard way. There are people up and down the country trying to get employment and being treated like 💩it's not just your daughter.

Sorry everyone that turned into a rant, it just happens to be a subject that winds me up!
Click to expand...
I agree with your rant!
 
LadyGascoyne said:
Because a lot of the applications for jobs are online, there are sometimes literally thousands of applications, usually completely inappropriate for the job.

There seems to be a culture of just sending a CV into literally any job, and a lot of them are overseas applicants even when the job states it is open to applicants with the right to work in the UK only.

I think this has meant that replying to all applicants has become almost impossible, and the initial CV round is seen as screening rather than an actual two way engagement with an applicant.

It's sad but having seen what my HR team have to deal with in terms of huge volumes totally unsuitable applicants (think people who have only finished high school applying for Heads of scientific disciplines) one can imagine what smaller companies are dealing with.

It's very very hard but I hope it casts a different light for your poor daughter. I know it's disheartening but it's highly unlikely to be any kind of reflection on her, rather the times and the culture developing around applying for jobs.
Click to expand...
Sadly, she is taking the rejections rather personally which breaks my heart
 
Midlifecrisis said:
Completely empathise, employers are being inundated because when signed on you have to demonstrate the number of applications made…not the quality and relevance to your skills. Shame she s not closer I’m in need of a freelancer and whilst not full time would have given her fuel and some spends.
Click to expand...
She got that to look forward to.. i hope you find a suitable freelancer
 
I know people on here are quick to refer people into racing college/industry but it really isn’t for everybody. Wasn’t there a member on here recently who was encouraged to go and had a miserable time? If you want to ride you need to be fit and tough to do the job. I would recommend doing some work experience at a race yard before committing to go to college.

There are a couple of equine career websites/agencies she could register with.
Career grooms
Caroline Carter Recruitment Ltd.
Equine careers

She also might have to face facts that living/working away might be a reality.
 
Brownie in Bahrain said:
She’s applying on indeed, via Facebook groups and just sending her details to yards & businesses in her area.
Click to expand...
I would hand deliver the applications. When I was recruiting the ones that came for an informal visit, or took time to discuss the job, always got short listed as they made the extra effort in wanting to work in our team.
 
Brownie in Bahrain said:
Sadly, she is taking the rejections rather personally which breaks my heart
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Unfortunately that's the bit rude recruiters don't take into account. I don't think they realise the effect it has on mental health. I've been in her shoes, and my OH is wearing them right now. It's soul destroying, and we're at the other end of our careers so you think we'd have some resilience to how recruiters treat people but to be honest when turn downs are all you get it really does damage self esteem and confidence.

I'm sending her huge hugs and really, really hope that she is successful soon.
 
I feel for your daughter. I mentor a number of young graduates seeking their first roles and there are some patterns that they are often not aware of. Usually their applications and resumes need a lot of work.

How concise and relevant is her resume to the roles she is applying for? Every application needs to be tailored. One standard resume won’t do it.

Get rid of fluff words. Passionate, excited, delighted, hard working, committed are all over used and can’t be quantified.

Don’t use ChatGPT to write. Use it for structure but write your own content. If I see “energetic and dedicated” one more time…………..

The equine services industry is not known for professionalism, but agree how hard is it to send an email or a quick call?
 
Please take it as read that there's no excuse for those who didn't reply or who promised work then didn't deliver, I understand how undermining that must be for your daughter but I want to advise your daughter about what happens next from the point of view of a small business that recruits youngsters for fairly manual, outdoor jobs.

We don't have a HR dept or a job role that includes interviewing, (this would be true of most businesses of the type your daughter is applying to). Recruitment is done in the evenings or by someone taking time out from what they regard as their real job.
It's worrying because you don't want to make a bad choice & you have no training & not a lot of experience in it.
The worst possible outcome is that you select someone & then they don't stay & you have to do it all again.
We get a shocking number of "keen, energetic and dedicated, good team players" who don't bother to turn up for interview, who decide it's not for them after being offered the job, or who potter about watching us work for a day or two then stop turning up.
(Edit - Not being negative about all young people, far from it, we get some absolute gems too. I just mean it's difficult to tell the difference in the short time you have to look through applications, so that colours what you look for- see below.)

My advice would be -
1) Consider taking a job, any job at all anywhere, as long as the hours are short enough that you can look for the job you want outside your working hours. That way you would have proof that you know what work actually means and will turn up every morning, on time and sober (not a given in our experience).
2) Take your CV round to your preferred places even if they are not recruiting. Many of them will bear you in mind for future vacancies if they have met you & got along well. Remember to mention you have even taken the job at [MacDonalds etc] because you don't want to sign on but would be available at a week's notice.
3) As has been mentioned, definitely go in person with your application when replying to adverts. There are so many replies from impossible applicants who just pressed a few buttons because it's so easy to do.
4) If you get another "maybe" answer, don't sit back & wait to see if they contact you, get back in touch after a couple of days & remind them.
5) Get in touch with your college, they will be interested in your situation & may have contacts who can help.

Also are there any extra skills that would make you more useful to an employer that you could be working on while you wait, can you drive for example?

Good luck.
 
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When I was made redundant after Covid I got a small cleaning job that payed similar to signing up. It meant that even if I got a full time job I wouldn’t have to pack it in straight away and I just felt better working for my money.

Is there no small part time jobs she could apply for to tie her over until a job she wants to do comes up? Cafe work, cleaning etc. that would get her out in the community and hopefully make some acquaintances that might help get her a full time job.

Best of luck to your daughter. I hope that all her disappointment turns into an opening for the perfect job.
 
3OldPonies said:
Sorry you're finding it difficult to do your job. 'Time consuming' oh what a problem to have!

Spare a thought for the applicants many of whom will be desperate for a job in order to be able to pay their bills or get started on a career. Sure you'll get applications that might not be up to your standards because some faceless person in government sets targets for those on benefits. But also bear in mind that there are genuine people caught in that net, not just what the media perceives as 'the work shy'. If an applicant has sent in something you think is rubbish would it really hurt so badly to let them at least have a bit of feedback so they can improve for another time? Or explain why someone hasn't been offered a position after interview rather than a blanket 'we thought the other person was a better fit' or even worse the 'sorry to your application has been unsuccessful' and no indication at all as to why.

Another rant, I think I'd better leave this thread before I really upset someone.
Click to expand...
Actually, recruitment is not my job. I work for a small company, too small to have an HR department so I can be faced with sifting through over 100 totally irrelevant job applications. on top of the things I am actually employed to do. I suppose I could stop paying suppliers, not bother doing the payroll... I only have so many hours in the day.
 
teapot said:
If an applicant has sent in something you think is rubbish would it really hurt so badly to let them at least have a bit of feedback so they can improve for another time?
Click to expand...
3OldPonies said:
Another rant, I think I'd better leave this thread before I really upset someone.
Click to expand...
I am not upset, just trying to explain the employer's position. When I worked for a small building firm, on one occasion 78 of the applicants for an experienced plasterer's job had no relevant work experience or qualifications. Why on earth did they apply other than to satisfy some arbitrary target for job applications? I don't think an employer can be expected to provide feedback to them.
 
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