Are people too inexperienced before they buy........

Has H & S totally killed helping out at riding schools then then? That would be a real shame although there are some things we did that don't sound so bright in hindsight - leading 4 along a busy road on a dark morning, pulling up ragwort with no gloves/handwashing. Learnt a lot though, although not proper mucking out as the ponies were stood in stalls with no bedding during the day and out the rest of the time. I think I could buy a horse now and look after it ok, the riding might be more of an issue.
 
i certainly was. I had riding lessons for some time then when a friend who rode with me bought a horse I decided to do the same. I was looking for a safe solid cob (yes I believed that they were all like that!) suitable for a novice and ended up with a totally unsuitable young cob, classic case of novice horse novice rider. I did have regular lessons with said horse and was on a yard where I told them"if you see me doing something wrong please tell me". I read every book I could get my hands on about horses and riding. My next horse was a total saint. However, have to say every" safe cob" I have had in the meantime have been stubborn so and sos,whereas others (warmblood) have been confidence givers and a pleasure to own !
Have to say though my riding is not wonderful my horse management is knowledge pretty good now
 
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Equilibrium Ireland said:
I don't know. I'm in two minds about this. Back in my day people just bought ponies and they learned through trial and error. I don't remember dead ponies and or crippled for life because there was no saddle fitter. I did NOT have my own pony so I worked at riding stables all day when not in school for free rides. Health and safety was non existent really. You got hurt you learned. Lots of times we were unsupervised. We had lessons too of course but we did lots of on our own trial and error too. There were no bad ponies and horses. There were horses that were a challenge. To ride effectively you had to become a better rider. We didn't have cobs. Mixed ponies with lots of blood and TB's crossed with ponies and TB's. Even the girls that had their own ponies still rode others. To be honest it was a great environment to grow up in.

I'm sure we committed thousands of sins. But the ponies did lots of work and stayed fit. They had few problems. Nobody bred better back then either. In fact probably worse. I'm glad now I never owned my own pony because I had to ride all sorts and then I went to the track.

What I see today are the following. You have a horse or pony and you never ride anything else. It's all about magic bonds and excuses. People have no idea how to feed for what horses are doing. Have no idea about fitness. I mean we used to feed coffee cans of sweet mix. But the ponies worked so it just didn't cause issues. The excuses now are silly. Everything effects horses. People either get a horse too fit or not fit enough. Buying a youngster is very rewarding but sometimes they lifestyle they're kept in means they start having issues. Both physical and mental. So no a first horse doesn't have to be a cob but something that has done all you want to do and is ready to do all you want. It just seems to be there's a huge gap anymore. You either get lessons week after week in which you hit a point that no improvement will come or you buy your own horse and ride nothing else. Neither of which makes riders I'm afraid. But health and safety has made it impossible to do any of the "crazy" stuff anymore. And not only that if you did people would accuse you of abuse.

I think a lot of horses would be left without homes if novices didn't buy. And WE ALL started somewhere. If we had Internet back then threads would be: Here's us jumping park benches. Fell and hit my head without helmet. What what we taught Dobbin. Whoops, won't do that again! They wouldn't be about laminitis ( never saw a horse with it til I moved here), matchy matchy, what can I feed, saddle fitter coming out, my vet and chiro don't agree. And on and on.

Sorry so long. Just people want perfection and think you need to know everything before you buy. I'm still learning people. You never stop if that's what you want. You will never know it all.

Terri
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Well put Terri, I agree, I was wondering how to approach this thread in truth as I hate it when people get all judgemental. Sure, there are very clear examples where this is true, and where someone really should not have bought a horse.
Back when we first got our horses in 1991 things were still old school in that there was no real Health and safety madness and only a few horses wore jute rugs! Things have changed so much the last 20 years, things were so simple and I think people were less judgemental back then. Although we lived in the middle of no where and never took the horses anywhere so maybe I simply did not encounter this.

I started helping at the local trekking centre and was told to hang on and keep my heels down and that was it! I think I was naturally a good rider when I was young and took to it with great ease really. I learnt a lot from just helping at this trekking centre and getting on with it, also lots of watching and learning, I soaked it up like a sponge.
Then the owner loaned us two ponies over the winter, and I continued to teach myself to ride bareback on our land on one of them, she was a welsh c x b and about 12.2 if memory serves.

We were relatively inexperienced really by some people's standards on here(and beyond perhaps) but just jumped in to owning our own herd! God forbid we purchased a stallion and two mares! We actually swapped them for a car off a local family! So we really dived in, both my parents had ridden as children but neither of them owned a horse before this point. Our horses were happy and healthy and we learned by having them and it was wonderful. I think good basic knowledge and a good amount of common sense and support where needed suffice. We all have to start somewhere after all! I am sure some would be very disproving of us doing what we did back then, but never mind!

As said, there are very clearly times were people buy and they should not, or they over horse themselves etc, but a lot of the time I find people can be far too judgemental.
 
indie999 said:
A mother did a no win no fee to sue the ridng school as she hadnt realised it was a dangerous sport. That was in H&H. Sad days ahead so no wonder How are they meant to muck out, learn etc. It was awful the RS was superb. That family nearly ruined it for everyone else.
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When I started at my RS, I had to sign a waiver stating that I was aware that riding was dangerous, and that I wouldn't sue if I was injured. I'd have thought it was common sense, really; a horse is a very large animal with the ability to think for itself and make contradictory decisions. When I took my husband for his first ride, he just nodded as he signed the form, and said, "Yeah, my wife keeps telling me all about every time she's come off a horse." I just smiled and nodded, adding, "In sparkling detail!" I thought he should be prepared. :D

My son has been riding, but has been taught nothing of actual horse care. Anything he knows, I have told him or he has read on his own in a book. Until he found my horse and stable management guides, he genuinely thought all there was to owning a horse was going and riding it. At this rate, he will get no proper, hands on experience until I have bought a horse and teach him myself what I was taught at his age. My daughter, I fear, will be the same. She is already horse mad at 4, and when she is old enough to start her lessons, I expect she will gain no more of a practical horse education than my son has. I guess that is what Mom is for in this house... teaching my kids what Health and Safety seems to have decided isn't safe enough to teach them at the RS. I don't understand it; H&S permits them to ride a horse at a RS, but not take care of it. The 'math' does not add up.

I agree that there may not be as many issues with people just starting out in horse ownership if they would be less stubborn, and ask for some help when they are stuck on something or having trouble. I've never had a problem asking for help when I need it. I'd rather ask for help than have something go terribly wrong.
 
My grandmother introduced me to horse riding when I was a small 6 year old child and I used to be taken to a riding school where I was taken out on a lead reign along the roads and to the beach were we jumped the breakwaters.

I did a little bit of horse riding when at college doing A levels.

Then in my mid twenties I shared a horse with someone (which was lost as a result of a gambling debt) and then shared another horse. The advantage of sharing a horse is that it can be an education (how to put on tack, pick out feet, bandaging legs, feeding, etc.).

I then went on to buy my first horse (found by a friend who heard he was for sale).

I then had the responsibility of looking after and riding my own horse. When I bought him I had to ride him along a main road back to the yard I was going to keep him at. I used to ride him all over the place and as we were in North London that meant Central London as well! I had him for 18 years and sadly lost him to colic. I bought another horse that I then owned for another 21 years and she also got hacked all over the place.

The secret to the whole thing about horse ownership is to listen to others, not to over-horse one self and ride the horse each and every day. That way one learns a lot and has a lot of fun.
 
My mare poos in a single area at the back (doesn't even step in it & spread it over stable) & can be encouraged to wee on a whistle (trick taught to endurance horses to get their heart rates down before vettings). Unfortunately she still wee's all over stable. Just have to keep trying... ;)

Totally agree re cheap prices. Also there are some people with egos that just wont admit what type of horse they need to actually enjoy the sport.
 
Kitty B said:
Horse management is MUCH different now than what I grew up with. I could manage a horse the way I was taught growing up, but now by the time I'm ready to go out and buy a horse here, I fear I will not know nearly enough. I don't understand all of the feeds and supplements as, apart from the winter months, ours were fed exclusively on grass and hay. Now I talk to people who reel off lists of different supplements etc that their horse simply MUST have. ............................

It feels like it is very hard to be experienced enough in someone else's opinion to buy a horse when everything you THINK you know about horses changes in the blink of an eye these days.
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Good horse management isn't that much different from when you grew up - it isn't that much different from when I grew up, which is just about twice as long ago. Horses still need to be fed, watered, provided with company and shelter.
Feed companies would like us to believe that horses need all sorts of complicated regimes - but they don't. They need owners with common sense and the ability to see through all the hype.

I'm sure your horse will be fine.
 
I learnt to ride in the 70's, proper traditional BHS riding school. Lots of round the worlds and lessons that followed the same pattern every week. A lesson was 50p and about then a bale of hay was less than a pound.
So now its a no brainer when a lesson is £30 and bale of hay is £4 on average. You learn to ride on animals that are selected to be easy to ride, which is fine but there is no place in a controled way to ride anyting more challanging. You think riding is easy and looking after a horse is simple, and if theres a problem someones sold you the wrong horse or there is a gadget, feed, treatment that you can buy that will fix it.
Looking after horses is simple IF you know what you are doing. People want to pay so little for livery when land cost upwards of £3-5000 an acre for like £10,000 in area near towns so to make a living the stocking density is about 3 horses per acre and there is little or no turnout in bad weather. Then there is not enough turn out and the cycle of the loopy horse starts. We do not ride it because its fresh, so you lunge it and get it fitter which in turn makes it harder for the novice to control because it is not only smarter but it fitter than the rider.
If you paid a descant amount for livery, there was more turnout and help either riding or exercising the horse would be happier and you would probabely end up with a far better experience but you would have to pay nearer £200 a week not the £200 a month most people want to pay.
I am not a perfect rider but with basic faclilities I have bought and schooled my childrens pony and horses for the last 30 years. I have made mistakes but all of them could hack, jump, do a prelim dressage test all without bucking rearing and running off. I have never needed a calmer, a gaget, back person or had an injury in the field or whilist in work.
The commen thread with all of them is they live out as much as possible, are worked and are fed according to amount of work they are doing.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Good horse management isn't that much different from when you grew up - it isn't that much different from when I grew up, which is just about twice as long ago. Horses still need to be fed, watered, provided with company and shelter.
Feed companies would like us to believe that horses need all sorts of complicated regimes - but they don't. They need owners with common sense and the ability to see through all the hype.

I'm sure your horse will be fine.
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I agree too. I suppose new people would be confused with the feed. I hadnt been into horses with a long gap and when I got one again I was quite shocked at the supplements..I was in the days of linseed, oats if they needed a bit of speed or was ill, salt licks.
Going back the the no win no fee, the RS was a proper registered etc and we did fill out our riding ability(it even stated telling the truth)! There were warning signs everywhere, I took an old hat for my son to be informed it was not meeting BSXYZ standard so had to borrow one. They wore body protectors and it was very strict. Pony club was run from there as well. Suddenly after the claim ,we had to sign disclaimers that we did realise it was dangerous. After old boy died I went to a riding school and had to pay an insurance with the RS for a year just in case I sued them! AAAARrrgh. I remember riding bareback, sitting under the horses, playing on the muck heap and eating sandwiches on the muck heap...anything to be with horses. Those were the days!
 
It's SIMPLE. You don't know how much experience you need to own a horse, until you have enough experience to know its not easy!!
I know that, because many years ago I made exact same mistake :). It all worked out BUT only because
1) I was lucky to have an experiences friend even though I had no idea I needed her
2) I was more stubborn than most people and the naughty 3 yr old WC :/-
3) I do have loads of common sense :)
 
The problem is riding schools making people think they have the experience, many don't offer stable management, I've seen some turn down mad keen kids offer their help as poo shovellers/groomers and not even ask for anything in return. People think its a lot easy especially if they are 'top of the class' at the RS. I rode in RS's for 5 years before getting a saint of a pony on full loan with very supportive liveries. She was strong yes but she taught me how to put what I'd read in books into practice. I had her for a year and I'd never be able to repay that pony for what she taught me. I then moved on to my racing yard (but had support from the stable lads as racehorses are a completely different kettle of fish) and got a young horse on part loan. I was thinking this horse was way to much for me but we are getting on okay :D owner says she trusts me anyway! I know the importance of schooling and varied routine and racehorses have taught me not to stand for ANY barging/mick taking
 
I do agree that people are often not experienced enough when buying horses, but I do wonder whether it is all that different from 50 years ago? Or is it just that we see more evidence of it because of the internet and forums and youtube and more awareness of all the stuff that can impact horses.

I also agree it is not the inexperience itself which is to be deplored so much as the refusal to admit it. Though again I suspect there are more people who do ask for help but instead get exploited by people who have a bit more knowledge but do not really care about horses.
 
A woman who has just moved off our yard bought a horse and she hasn't even got the basic knowledge to know what colic is, a flash noseband, or that bridles and bits come in different sizes. She also has a saddle that is pressing right down on the withers and yet she says it seems alright to her despite numerous hints.

I actually caught her at the yard one day with the front gate (onto the road) wide open and her horse loose in the yard whilst she mucked out.:mad:

She has now gone and bought her daughter a shetland pony too.
 
MileAMinute said:
I know someone who has bought a cob who didn't know what a flash was or realised nosebands came in different sizes.
She didn't know what a lunge line was or how to lunge.
No clue on medical conditions.
Feeds hay when he clearly has dust/hay allergy/COPD.
Saddle is a horrendous fit. I asked if she wanted to get it checked as I had fitter out other week. She says it looks fine and might consider buying a new saddle next year.
She tried to help take me 13.3hh LW pony up the road to the field and said he was too strong for her (he just throws his head around, typical inpatient 4yo!)
She's also just bought a shetland for her young daughter who's never ridden, and says that too, is strong.
These are just a few incidences off the top of my head.
I despair :(
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Just realised I have posted the same thing!! :o
 
Gloi said:
They may be strong but they are normally less reactive and more forgiving of mistakes than a blood horse. I know there will be individuals that do not fit this pattern but in general a native type that can be ridden from the field will be less sharp than a blood horse that is stabled.
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I totally agree. Re the experience bit, don't get me started! Horses take up sooo much time (and money) and it takes time to build a bond with any horse and learn how to handle it correctly, like others have said, in this age of instant gratification, do folk have the long term view? I doubt it.
 
I wouldn't say it's the inexperience that ruins it.

You get horse owners who have owned for years, yet still do teeth gritting things with their horses. Then you get the first time owners who have common sense, learn the ropes and do their research.

Same with dogs, rabbits, cats and all other animals, it's not always the inexperienced that do the horrendous acts.
 
stormox said:
There are a number of threads on this forum like 'My new horse is difficult' , 'My horse keeps throwing me off', 'I'm scared of my horse' , ''my poies a nightmare'....... etc etc.
I'm beginning to wonder if people are buying horses before theyv had enough experience, both riding and handling.
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I agree with Littlelegs and others - the thing that these threads tend to have in common isn't lack of experience before they buy; it's lack of access to experienced help when things start to unravel.

Personally I don't give two hoots how much experience someone has before they buy - they can be a total novice, as long as they understand their limitations, are willing to learn, and have all the back up they need for their level of ability.
 
There are also many DIY yards, where the YO is non-horsey and the 'experienced' liveries know far less than they think (and tell every-one else), that they do. Many cases of the blind leading the blind.

I often think that livery yrds should be licensed, with someone on the staff who really does know what they are doing.
 
I think it's easy to slate everyone else on a forum whilst 'bigging yourself up'. How do we know how much experience each of us has when it comes to horses? I would be very surprised if all the self-proclaimed 'experts' on the forum can actually walk the walk. Heck, half the time they can't even talk the talk when you read the daft things that some people advocate :rolleyes:

Since you don't need a license to have a baby, and most people these days have little or no experience of how to raise a child until they become parents, how are we to ascertain whether or not anyone is fit to own a horse :confused:

Most people either have ponies as children and learn that way or they go to a riding school before buying a horse. I don't see how any amount of formal riding lessons can adequately prepare you for horse ownership since all horses are different and they won't all get colic/laminitis/need remedial farriery/be allergic to grass etc.

What I am trying to say is that no-one knows everything as we have not experienced every horse and every possible illness or situation so we are all still learning as we go along. If we restricted horse ownership to a select few then where would all the horses that have already been bred, responsibly or not, actually go, other than into Findus' finest frozen offerings?
 
Part of the problem is that it's so bloody easy to get a horse.

I've been helping out on a yard for a couple of months, and I've had to turn down being given two horses in that time. People keep telling me that of course I'm experienced enough to have my own when I know full well that I'm not. Yes, I can ride (after a fashion, and please don't look at my trot-canter transitions); yes, I can muck out and groom and stuff a haynet.

But I don't have a clue about saddle fitting, I couldn't tell a good farrier from a bad, my knowledge of feeding goes as far as 'lots of hay and grass', and I don't even know how to lunge. (I have theoretical knowledge. I'm not going to try to put it into practice until someone's available to teach me.)

If I didn't know how little I know, I could easily be convinced by the people telling me that I know enough.
 
"Part of the problem is that it's so bloody easy to get a horse."

Even easier to get a baby :eek:

"I don't have a clue about saddle fitting"

Neither do I but I pay a saddle fitter to come out regularly :)

I am not suggesting that you should get a horse by the way, just playing devil's advocate and suggesting that other people who do own horses, and may indeed have owned them for years, probably don't know it all either :)
 
Oh dear OP shoot me now. I bought a 16hh wbx rising 4year old for my first horse. Prior to that I was having lessons in a riding school on riding school horses..........
 
Snowy Celandine said:
"I don't have a clue about saddle fitting"

Neither do I but I pay a saddle fitter to come out regularly :)

I am not suggesting that you should get a horse by the way, just playing devil's advocate and suggesting that other people who do own horses, and may indeed have owned them for years, probably don't know it all either :)
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I know so little that I once put a saddle belonging to a 16hh lardy cob on a Welsh Sec A, and had to double-check that there was something a bit odd going on... :o Poor little pone was giving me such confused looks.

Oh, I'm not aiming to know it all before I get one of my own. I don't like to set myself impossible targets. :D Just aiming to know enough to feel halfway confident. And, as it is, I'm gaining experience while putting aside the money I'd be spending on keep. When I do feel ready, I'll have enough saved up to get the kind of quality, confidence-giving all-rounder that I want.
 
I think it can be quite scary to ask for help really.

We started as total novices. Completely useless really. Luckily, we had the pony club and the yard was private with a very knowledgeable hunting/ PC family who told us what to do and sorted us out. And the we moved onto a yard (still private) owned by an eventer who took my sister and I out hacking and helped find us suitable ponies and made us have lessons and taught us stable management.

12 years later, my mum sound like she was brought up round horses she knows so much. My sister is managing a yard and has 2 ex-racers who are going well for her. But if we hadn't had such good help on hand we'd have been stuffed!
 
Funnily enough the total haven't got a clue types I meet are the ones who have had a horse for years. Riding at riding schools taught me things like the different types of bit and nosebands and their function. It taught me that cobs and natives are often not sensible horses for novices. It taught me how to quickly assess and get a tune out of a new horse. It taught me how to deal with a variety of ridden issues and to get back on after a fall. It taught me countless other things and I think I was far better equipped than someone who had owned and ridden the same horse for years. It even gave me great contacts to help me find a suitable horse, access to experienced people who knew my riding who had bought and sold many times and had their own contacts.
 
Oldenfelle said:
I wouldn't say it's the inexperience that ruins it.

You get horse owners who have owned for years, yet still do teeth gritting things with their horses. Then you get the first time owners who have common sense, learn the ropes and do their research.

Same with dogs, rabbits, cats and all other animals, it's not always the inexperienced that do the horrendous acts.
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Well said :D
 
It probably depends on how much horse care experience people bother to gather before buying a horse. you can ride for five minutes or five years at a school and still not know how to put a bridle together, put a leg bandage on, muck a stable out, etc. Horse ownership is often more about vet bills, frozen arenas and disappointments than fun, unlike paying for a riding lesson and turning up, and its hard to prepare for that, but people should at least take the trouble to learn day to day horse care before buying.

I did many "own a pony days" then kept my first pony at a BHS riding school livery yard and it was a brilliant environment to start horse ownership. I was really, really lucky and I'm so glad I learnt that way.
 
I guess everyone has to start somewhere. Not everyone is born into a horsey family and at some stage, if you aim to be a horse owner, you have to leave the RS and its horses and venture out on your own.

Buying a horse, especially your first horse, is fraught with difficulty. A horse on a dealer's yard, or even with a private seller, may be exactly as s/he says they are-in that knowledgeable environment, and as others have said, changing a horse's work routine can bring about profound changes in temperament.

It can be scary to ask for help, and it can be even scarier to just have someone barrel in and take over, and sometimes when you're a novice owner with a horse that is too much for you you can be given so much conflicting advice, well-meaning-but-totally-inappropriate advice and it's hard to know the difference. Also, no matter how hard you try to obtain knowledge, sometimes you don't know what you don't know if that makes sense.

I think about the first horse I bought for my daughter, no way on earth would I buy that horse knowing what I do now, but in a way, had I not bought that horse and had those experiences we wouldn't know what we know now, sad for the horse as she could have been so much more with knowledgeable people but we have done our best for her in our way. Our experience has given us more confidence and also enabled us to evaluate the quality of the advice anyone offers us, and the horses too. Subsequently, the next 2 horses I have bought (one for me, another for her) have been a lot more suitable for our needs.

.
 
Elsiecat said:
Some people have no way in building up experience though.
Honestly I think common sense and a supportive livery yard and you're 99% of the way there! Obviously you need to have had at least riding lessons first.
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This, as long as you have help at hand (and are willing to ask for advice when required) things should be fine.

Equilibrium Ireland said:
Sorry so long. Just people want perfection and think you need to know everything before you buy. I'm still learning people. You never stop if that's what you want. You will never know it all.

Terri
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In my opinion it's people who think they know it all (whether they are novices or have been around horses for yonks) who are most likely to cause problems with their horses.
 
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