Are people too inexperienced before they buy........

sooo frequently !

My ex liveries were a classic example of this - the mum bought a TB x Arab, as a novice mature rider, horse was 5, and is bonkers. Owner is scared of her rarely rides etc etc. Daughter got a TB also scared to ride it v much/often which then died in an accident. Against all advice she went and got another TB ex race horse at which point I threw in the towel with them :rolleyes:

The state of the first two's feet when they came to me was eyewatering - my trimmer confided in me he'd never seen feet so badly ruined before, by bad shoeing, and was hard pressed not to say so to the owners :( Their basic knowledge of feet, worms, saddles, first aid, basic groundwork (ie dont chase the horse round wit the mounting block it'l never stand still!) was appalling.

So much pain and tears through them just being clueless and in over their heads. Its a f£eckin expensive hobby for it to be that traumatising!
 
As someone who has found myself slightly over horses with my first horse having had him sold to me as a 'very safe' 'confident novice ride'. I do think there should be a little bit of responsibility with the sellers here - I wouldn't dream of ever selling my boy on to a first time owner or novice as he would wreck their confidence/put them in hospital. Of course people need to be up front about their experience and intended use too. Just a thought.
 
I think the most important things for a new owner irrespective of their experience is to know how much they still have to learn and to know how to read.

If you can read, accept you don't know everything and are willing to learn you will get there.

The problem is that dangerous stage when novices think they know everything....... I have seen plenty if those run into trouble when they buy a horse before they move onto that next stage where they realise that all they have done is master the absolute basics.
 
Elsiecat said:
Some people have no way in building up experience though.
Honestly I think common sense and a supportive livery yard and you're 99% of the way there! Obviously you need to have had at least riding lessons first.
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I dont agree, yes common sense is a good thing to have but they need knowledge as well. Livery yards IMO aren't very often good, because you just get a heap of people giving different opinions and confusing the whole situation. What should be encouraged is when people go for riding lessons in the first place, they should be taught all of it - bringing the horse in, grooming, tacking it up etc. I'm sure quite a few people would love this.

Too many people seem to buy a horse who was sold to them as "a first horse" and then it turns out not to be. Every horse behaves differently with every person - why people on here always seem to blame the previous owner for lying, I just dont get.
 
I think it is easy to learn an awful lot if you have an open mind, a good livery yard and you buy the right horse.

If you can ride and you are willing to learn then basic ignorance like not knowing what a flash is, or how to lunge, are pretty easily rectified.

What is not easy to put right is buying a horse that is too much either through over estimating your own skills or through unscrupulous sellers.

I am very experienced in riding school terms and did do slave labour through my childhood and teens at a riding school, but there is no comparison with owning your own horse. I have learned loads.

I did buy a fairly challenging horse - a very green Arab who had never had a saddle that fitted. But I think I have risen to the challenge and we have both improved over the last 2 years. I wouldn't have learned nearly so much with a more ploddy and established horse. But my gelding is very sweet natured and my yard owner is amazing and I do like learning so it has all been a happy experience for both of us.
 
I think they blame the previous owners/say the dealer lied to them because they don't know any better and/or they don't want to see they may be causing the issues themselves.
 
bluewhippet said:
I think it is easy to learn an awful lot if you have an open mind, a good livery yard and you buy the right horse.

If you can ride and you are willing to learn then basic ignorance like not knowing what a flash is, or how to lunge, are pretty easily rectified.

What is not easy to put right is buying a horse that is too much either through over estimating your own skills or through unscrupulous sellers.

I am very experienced in riding school terms and did do slave labour through my childhood and teens at a riding school, but there is no comparison with owning your own horse. I have learned loads.

I did buy a fairly challenging horse - a very green Arab who had never had a saddle that fitted. But I think I have risen to the challenge and we have both improved over the last 2 years. I wouldn't have learned nearly so much with a more ploddy and established horse. But my gelding is very sweet natured and my yard owner is amazing and I do like learning so it has all been a happy experience for both of us.
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Yes but it becomes a worry when they actually ask what colic is when you mention it to them, or know how to recognise basic health problems. Even on a livery yard it cannot be down to other people to monitor somebody else's horse all the time to check for signs of ailments/injury etc.
 
Push button horses /educated/ well behaved can be hard to find. They are also expensive. Whenever I bought my kids a pony they have been not cheap but not top dollar. They were vetted and tried a few times, but once you get them out their normal environment things do show up, and also the change of rider and level of experience of that rider has an impact.

My kids grew into their ponies, so they developed the experience they needed to ride them, and although they had seemed more suitable, I was willing to persist with them, and they eventually got to where I had hoped they would. (If that makes sense). They are still tricky ponies though and if I was to sell them on, I would need to be careful about who bought them.
 
And I think another thing is to realise quite how much money a horse will cost. If you don't have the money for physios and saddle fitters and instructors etc, then don't get a horse. I am not saying money makes up for experience and I am far from rich, but it definitely does help ...
 
Moomin1 said:
Yes but it becomes a worry when they actually ask what colic is when you mention it to them, or know how to recognise basic health problems. Even on a livery yard it cannot be down to other people to monitor somebody else's horse all the time to check for signs of ailments/injury etc.
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Yes, but I think common sense does play a fairly big part.

Parents to be don't generally know the symptoms of meningitis or colic for that matter (!) but they have to learn pretty fast when they have a child..
 
The tricky ones do teach you so much. In a way I'm almost glad my horse is so switched on as my riding has improved so much and have learnt a great deal about patience.

Would never have been able to do it without a brilliant livery yard with fab staff, brilliant vet and lots of reading.

There will never be such a thing as a perfect horse or a perfect owner. Experience or less experience it simply is just really hard sometimes.
 
bluewhippet said:
Yes, but I think common sense does play a fairly big part.

Parents to be don't generally know the symptoms of meningitis or colic for that matter (!) but they have to learn pretty fast when they have a child..
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But a parent with a new born baby is far more likely to be over cautious with any possible symptoms than a new horse owner who doesn't have a clue if something looks right or wrong IMO.

I don't think somebody who has never even heard of colic in a horse, nevermind recognise any possible symptoms, should have one.
 
Everyone has to start somewhere, we've had kids put bits in upside down, and nose bands on foreheads, we've had someone who had a pony for two years and it developed choke one day, she had never heard of it or come across it before. I've had horses for 20 odd years and I'm still coming across stuff I've never seen before, and when I'm 60 I'll probably be saying the same. Having experienced help goes a long way in most situations, and the intelligence to actually listen to people, but I had a lovelly lady come with her Grand Daughter with view to buying my horse as a share. Grand Daughter had such a face on her, Kevin and Perry would be proud, she wouldnt actually try the horse because it wasnt the flashy WB like all her friends had. They were looking for a new horse because the previous flashy WB had re arranged her face on the arena floor a few times, and she hadnt actually learnt that lesson, and is now probably having her face re arranged again.
 
Moomin1 said:
But a parent with a new born baby is far more likely to be over cautious with any possible symptoms than a new horse owner who doesn't have a clue if something looks right or wrong IMO.

I don't think somebody who has never even heard of colic in a horse, nevermind recognise any possible symptoms, should have one.
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You are probably right but i do think that is a very extreme case. I think most people can tell if there is something seriously wrong with their horse, even if they can't diagnose it themselves. And then I think unfortunately finances do play a part: quite often people don't call the vet when they should because they are frightened of the bill.

Parents are much more likely to plague their doctor because they don't have to pay (and that is not saying that parents wouldn't pay, if their child was ill, just that I know an awful lot of parents who take their children to the doctor at the first cough).

And I do think a good YO is a protection against a lot of inexperience. And again, you might have to pay more or work harder to find one.
 
Sign of the times I think. Horses and riding are much more accessible than they once were and while this has huge positive connotations it has a downside too.
Plus when I was a kid I helped out at the local riding school. I mucked out stables, groomed ponies (I mean who even properly grooms these days even?) led kids out on the lead rein ponies, fed, watered, hayed round. And occasionally got a free lesson in return. My parents dropped me off in the morning and dragged me away in the evening. And what I learned was huge and exponential. But these days kids are not allowed to "exploited" in this way as free labour and health and safety prevents them ponying 3 down to the field etc and so I don't think there are now the same opportunities to learn as there was when I was a kid and thats sad...
 
Anyone can buy the wrong horse, and you don't realize how easily it happens until you do it. That can be your first purchase or your twentieth. TBH, I got less uptight about making sure horses ticked all the boxes having bought six or seven suitable ponies and horses before buying a horse with a big problem. I'd kind of got complacent and trusting that horses were all genuine and ridable, duh!
 
Your right A-J now adays the riding schools round here get the parents to pay £30 per day for the privelege of allowing their little ones to muck out, groom, fill water and hay nets all day at the weekend, and thats without the free riding lesson! Sign of the times.
 
There's a lot of elitism being displayed here(great thread though).

My mare was pushed from pillar to post, she was a burnt out stresshead and had been thoughally obused by so called experience experts who'd forced her to jump by several dubious methods even though she was in pain. They knew what they were doing and had worked all their lives with horses no doubt? She was already at the bottom rung of the ladder and unmanageable.

Mmmmmm, good job she found someone who didn't know what the hell they we're doing.
 
Such a shame! The best days of my child hood were spent cleaning tack and poo picking in return for pony time. They were the best days ever and we had so much fun! You always knew at the end of the day you would be zooming around playing games and racing around the world and daring each other to do full scissors. I don't see this happening in riding schools so much anymore :-( shame as those ponies taught us loads
 
ann-jen said:
Sign of the times I think. Horses and riding are much more accessible than they once were and while this has huge positive connotations it has a downside too.
Plus when I was a kid I helped out at the local riding school. I mucked out stables, groomed ponies (I mean who even properly grooms these days even?) led kids out on the lead rein ponies, fed, watered, hayed round. And occasionally got a free lesson in return. My parents dropped me off in the morning and dragged me away in the evening. And what I learned was huge and exponential. But these days kids are not allowed to "exploited" in this way as free labour and health and safety prevents them ponying 3 down to the field etc and so I don't think there are now the same opportunities to learn as there was when I was a kid and thats sad...
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I think in the future horses will be a lot less accessible than they are now, certainly round where I live anyway. The little DIY yard/farm willl disappear under suburban sprawl and this will push up the cost of horse ownership and riding lessons etc. I think it will end up like the part of the USA that I came from- real countryside with horses, that were not in really very expensive high end Hunter barns, were over an hour's drive from the town I lived.
 
All the tack was cleaned every day at that riding school and put away pristine. Think nowadays I only do mine if I'm going to a show. So not all the good lessons stayed with me lol!
 
jeeve said:
Push button horses /educated/ well behaved can be hard to find. They are also expensive. .
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Not really, especially if you are prepared to have slightly older horse, which IMO every '1st horse' should be. The trouble is that these days every-one seems to want a horse which can go round Badminton, on top of being well-mannered and bombproof, even though the rider can barely manage a clear round class.
 
I think it buying a horse is very challenging and even experienced people can get this wrong. How to buy the right horse for you is not something taught in riding schools or something you can learn from sharing or loaning.

If people buy the right horse for them and have some good luck in terms of horse not getting sick or having any accidents there is no reason that someone who has not had loads of experience cannot have a trouble free horse.

I think problems do sometimes arise if people cannot afford to call the vet if they are not sure about something or ask for help but that is not restricted to novice people.

There are also some good horse magazines that people can buy which have information on stable management and behaviour and handling problems too.

I had ponies as a kid and went to pony club as was lucky to have supportive parents though dad was not very horsey he had a pony when he was a kid and was a farmer so at least had knowledge of looking after animals. However when buying my own pony for the first time as an adult it has been much harder, more things seem to go wrong now than I can ever remember, when I had ponies there did not seem to be so many injuries etc but then most people I knew kept their ponies at home not at livery and those that were at livery tended to be on grass livery rather than stabled livery. Grass livery seems to have gone out of fashion now and things do seem to be more complicated.
 
I think the issue is compounded by numpties, which some people will always be whether they've been riding a week or 30yrs. I'm in cheap diy land, & I don't mean to sound judgemental, I've met plenty of lovely new owners too. But I've also spent hours sat up with someone else's horse because the owner didn't realise that it wasn't just itching its tummy with its leg on account of being all sweaty. Or had to dress wounds because the yard has no horsey manager & the owner has neither the experience or the funds for a vet. Or explain the difference between hay & straw. Or what a rug is. Or that no your pony isn't doing cute rocking horse impressions, its crippled with laminitis. Or no, I'm not going to lend you my child for a day to transform the unhandled 4yr old sec a that came off a hill via an auction into a pony suitable for your beginner kids. I'm not saying that's typical, but it does happen, because some people are just stupid, regardless of what they pursue, horses or anything else.
 
I think that's there's possily too much experience round nowadays.

If you look at the timeline of horse riding/ownership, in the seventies there was an enormous shift of people who were slightly better off moving from the centre of cities to the "leafy suburbs". It was the time when commuting began in a big way as more and more people got cars.

Most of the youngsters both at the riding schools and livery (70's/80's) were the first in their families to have anything to do with horses.
We were left alone to get on with it at yards up and down the country because our own parents had no idea what we were doing.

But now what I'm picking up on is that generation is stifling the next because they know too much.

Why this obsession with hats/body protectors for youngsters for instance?
It was good enough for me to ride around bareback, no hat, only half in control so what's so precious about children/teens now?

As you get older you lose cofidence in your own immortality, life does that too you. But I'm not sure that a product of our own individual age (the lack of confidence that you are going to live forever) is a good thing to burden the next generation with.

There's lots of discussion on forums about the freedoms we were allowed as children/teens back in the 60's/70's/80's compared to now in all sorts of areas, not just equestrian..

Maybe our own parents having been that much closer or having come through WW2 realised that there is no such thing as garantees and the best anyone can do is stop worrying so much.
 
Personally I think a lot of the ownus lies with the seller too. I had someone come to try a pony I'd owned for 12yrs. I was overhorsed when I got him and he taught me more than I could ever put into words, but we struggled through and eventually we came right but I'd never do it again.

I outgrew him and advertised him for loan, and the first girl who came to try him sounded like she had the knowledge and experience but she got on him, rode him fine in walk and trot, but bouncy, quick canter and she was all over the place. He slowed and really tried to look after her but she just couldn't sit to it. She said she'd love to take him and the friend she brought with her agreed, but I had to tell her I really didn't think he was the right pony for her.
 
Qru said:
I bought a horse several months ago who's abilities were (and still are) far, far higher than mine, but this is what I wanted as I knew he would teach me a lot, both on the ground and being ridden. I am also a fairly "inexperienced" owner but I ALWAYS ask someone who's more experienced than me whenever I was/am unsure as its not fair on the long-suffering man to have such a ditzy mum :D (note: I'm not that bad, but HE probably thinks so!)
I don't think it's being inexperienced thats the problem - its being inexperienced and too damn stubborn/prideful to ask when you need help or are unsure. I've met many people who are even less experienced that I am, but because they've read about it in a magazine or on the internet believe they know it all.
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I've not read the rest of the thread, but this Willfull Ignorance fuelled by pride or whatever REALLY drives me mad! Seen it too many times! Just ask FFS - there's no shame in asking for help/advice!

FWIW I am a novice really, but have seen lots of stubbornness & ignorance recently, and it really pees me off!
 
I'm probably a prime example to be fair!

After a year of riding a friends pony I brought bailey via horsemart, didn't even go to view him just sent his owner a deposit then picked him up a month later!

Went straight to a private field by myself and had to very quickly learn about 'real' horse/yard/field management!

Luckily I had a few good friends I could go to for advice and I read a lot and researched a lot on here. It was hard but I'm happy to say I don't think I've done too bad of a job. I made some silly mistakes but none that have harmed Bailey.

Since he's been with me he's had choke (caused by him trying to swallow half a tree and getting bark lodged in his throat!!) and colic, but the vet assured me that a colic episode is something that is just likely to happen in an older horse (he's 21) and its unlikely it was caused by my doing.

I'd like to think I've got a happy, healthy horse who came to me very bargey on the ground and very nappy under saddle - despite my inexperience in the 2 years I've had him I've changed this behaviour and he's now a total dream.

So I guess not every story has a bad ending, but if I could do it all again I'd perhaps loan first to learn the ropes properly! If you know someone who's a first time owner and they're doing something stupid just tell them! Chances are if they're like me they won't know what they're doing is wrong! :o
 
Moomin1 said:
But a parent with a new born baby is far more likely to be over cautious with any possible symptoms than a new horse owner who doesn't have a clue if something looks right or wrong IMO.

I don't think somebody who has never even heard of colic in a horse, nevermind recognise any possible symptoms, should have one.
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I agree. People can only gain experience by doing and learning, but at least read a bloody book before buying a horse! Amount of people that go out and buy after half a dozen lessons and no research whatsoever is horrifying. Having said that though there's always someone that should know better that's willing to sell one to them...
 
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