Are we a dying breed

I have to admit, I only show these days to get the beast out and about as much as possible. Time will tell how she does - she's got the breeding and confo but I really don't think that's what matters.
 
EKW said:
See I tend to find that a breed judge judging mixed classes will be harsher on their own breed than the others! I had the Wee Coloured Job at Blair the other year under a dartmoor breeder/judge. 9 Shetlands, 2 Welsh (A & B) and 2 Dartmoors. The Dartmoors were last and 2nd last and to be honest deservedly so. But she could have put them up the line a bit for being her breed but she didn't they weren't good enough in her eyes. So of the 9 shetlands 8 were black then there was my skewbald who stuck out like a sore thumb! Both Welsh were grey. The oddball won the class! So anything is possible!
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Well done!
I think it's because Suffolks can look a bit workmanlike compared to the flashier moving clydesdale and shires. The other two breeds have moved on to be leggier while suffolks are still traditionally shorter legged and with a lower centre of gravity. He can hold his own in the walk and gallop but in trot and canter, can look flat. I don't think it's easy for judges and if you were watching from the side, you'd probably agree with the judge. But, if that helps people think they could get on and ride him, then that's what we're there for.

Having said that, his first ever lap of honour had some lift in the canter..._BRC2643 kilburn lr No Print.jpg
 
OrangeAndLemon said:
Well done!
I think it's because Suffolks can look a bit workmanlike compared to the flashier moving clydesdale and shires. The other two breeds have moved on to be leggier while suffolks are still traditionally shorter legged and with a lower centre of gravity. He can hold his own in the walk and gallop but in trot and canter, can look flat. I don't think it's easy for judges and if you were watching from the side, you'd probably agree with the judge. But, if that helps people think they could get on and ride him, then that's what we're there for.

Having said that, his first ever lap of honour had some lift in the canter...View attachment 33499
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But you know what you need to work on and come back out bigger and better next time! There is nothing nicer than sitting on a well schooled horse when you least expect it!
 
EKW said:
But you know what you need to work on and come back out bigger and better next time! There is nothing nicer than sitting on a well schooled horse when you least expect it!
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You're absolutely right. We're starting work on his fitness and we'll introduce the double bridle. If the class is ride judged we know he'll shine, he is so responsive. Next summer we'll be ready.
 
Nudibranch said:
I have to admit, I only show these days to get the beast out and about as much as possible. Time will tell how she does - she's got the breeding and confo but I really don't think that's what matters.
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Tbh breeding doesn't count for much. The jufge doesn't see the breeding and two superb specimens can produce the biggest dud.
It's all about conformation and way of going. Dont feel that because you're not a "face' you can't do well because I know plenty of home produced people who have gone right to the top with minimal help.
If your local County show is using the same judge for the same classes year in year out that is pretty poor planning on behalf of the Committee.
 
10-15 years ago I competed both dressage and showing on a pony. Only at local level but you would get between 10-30 in each of the showing classes, my Mum wouldn't let me do county as pony was prone to misbehaving so didn't want the waste of money/effort.

On the other hand there was noone in dressage my age. Junior classes didn't exist. Apart from when we stumbled upon BYDRS where it was just a different class!

Noone in my pony club did dressage. A few eventers, but mostly people would head to their local showing show.

Now dressage is full of kids. Huge classes for juniors intro and prelim. I think this is where they've gone. As people have mentioned you do tend to get better feed back that doesn't depend on the colour of your horse or correct jacket!
 
Nice to hear some are enjpying it I love it I don't mind where we come occassionally feel cheated when beaten by a clearly lame horse but thats a different problem. I appreciate people give up time and money to judge and steward and most of the time the friendliest places are at show. We always clap and cheer the new comers and if asked will always give tips etc. I love out local venue although sometimes the judges are numpties but they make the effort to get different people each time or if the same judge they do a different class. I would love to have loads of new people coming through
 
madamebonnie said:
Noone in my pony club did dressage. A few eventers, but mostly people would head to their local showing show.

Now dressage is full of kids. Huge classes for juniors intro and prelim. I think this is where they've gone. As people have mentioned you do tend to get better feed back that doesn't depend on the colour of your horse or correct jacket!
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There's also the small matter of there being no rider age limits if you are tiny enough to ride a pony.
 
This is an interesting thread. I remember as a kid, with no funds or pony of my own, being able to take my friends pony into a local show and having a complete ball. Borrowed (incorrect!) kit, borrowed pony, no frillies, but still a fun experience.

My first experience with my own put me off forever. I was just taking her for experience, no illusions of success. 9 in the class, so I expected the top 6 to be pulled in, then the rest of us to leave. But no, pulled in to last place, but not so we could get feedback or words of encouragement - so I really can’t understand why we weren’t able to just leave. Black art. Nothing to take away and work on. No incentive to try again.

With dressage there is always clear feedback, so even if you don’t do well, you have something to take away.
 
You see to me dressage is just as bad as showing okay you get numbers on a sheet but it is still subjective and although some write an essay some do not explain their marks in the comments box and a sheet may just contain smart pony well ridden. Or not on your side today but shows promise etc
 
Sneering aside.... The lack of feedback is what really finished it off as a completely negative experience for me. 2nd last and no input as to how to improve or even a "you're a mess but well done for showing up I can see you tried with her tail" or "you're in completely the wrong class you eejit". Lol! ANYTHING! I just wanted someone to say my horse was pretty!
 
If everyone in the ring asked for the judges opinion/advice/feedback you would never leave the ring! Dressage takes 2 seconds to write on a piece of paper. Most judges don't mind being asked but many wont offer feedback because they are afraid the person will go off their rocker and call them every name under the sun! Yes it has been done before and will be done again! The internet has a lot to answer for these days! Judges names getting dragged through the mud because they didn't like your horse etc. It used to be done just in the truck on the way home but now it is everywhere.

As for just pulling the top 6 and asking the rest to leave - people have paid their money, their ring time and deserve to be placed accordingly. I always place my classes right down to the very last competitor even if there are 20 of them! If I pulled the top 6 then said come in in any order there would be a mass brawl for people to stand 7th! Being placed gives you an idea of how you did against the others.

I hate classes with marks. Marks are very subjective. People complain when there pony scores 45/50 for conf one week then 33/50 the next. No the pony hasn't lost a leg during the week but it could well have been in a class full of very mediocre ponies the first day and then they quality improved the 2nd day and your pony didn't stand up to them. People obcess about marks. I personally would scrap the system!
 
Me too once saw a showing class done on the ice skating marks system with 4 judges with cards to hold up it was interesting to watch until one judge quickly added up the marks others had given and changed his mark so his favourite one won it started out as a 7 and was quickly changed to 9 when he realised it wouldnt win if he didnt, that caused uproar around the ringside and amongst the other judges. It was very interesting until that point
 
windand rain said:
and as to the childrens classes they seem to be even fewer do kids not want to ride anymore. Locally showjumping is mostly adults doing even the 30cm classes fewer and fewer children seem to want to ride unless they are thrashing a poor pony round a set of jumps.
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Round here the jumping shows have lots of kids doing 3 or 4 classes and fewer adults until you get to 80cm plus. I've found myself when placed in a 70cm class as the one on the 16.2 tb surrrounded my ponies not more than 13hh. He's an idiot will fillers so I have to keep it small to build up his confidence.

I think in part it's due to the one discipline show. There are few of the sort of shows where you have showing classes, jumping and gymkhana events and you would have a go at all despite not having much chance in anything. These are the grass roots where people start and as you found out what you liked and what you were good at, some would have moved on to taking showing seriously.

ETA I do a bit of everything with the thoroughtwat and he's a lovely looking horse but was put off RoR as they have to be shod all round. There's plenty of dressage and jumping for me to do and the occasional hunter trial.
 
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They did a Clapometer class - I can't remember whether it was BSPS or PUK - that went down like a lead baloon! The favourites didn't win because half the people got decked when a sudden mass of cheering and screaming started! The horse/pony with the highest decible count that stayed intact won.

That was not one of their brightest ideas!

The natives at Olympia do 4 marks now. The confo marks are put up as soon as they are in for each pony but the ride marks are kept quiet until the final placings.
 
There were 4 horses in the class I did. There was time to say something. The judge today gave a few words to more or less everyone and detailed feedback to some. In bigger classes it might be difficult yes but in a class of 4 or with an obvious newbie it is worth the time surely?

I do see the problem with giving feedback but if showing really is losing a lot of popularity and lack of feedback is contributing to that perhaps it would be good to reassess how it could be done? Although a clapometer is a bloody daft idea!! Lol!
 
criso said:
Round here the jumping shows have lots of kids doing 3 or 4 classes and fewer adults until you get to 80cm plus. I've found myself when placed in a 70cm class as the one on the 16.2 tb surrrounded my ponies not more than 13hh. He's an idiot will fillers so I have to keep it small to build up his confidence.

I think in part it's due to the one discipline show. There are few of the sort of shows where you have showing classes, jumping and gymkhana events and you would have a go at all despite not having much chance in anything. These are the grass roots where people start and as you found out what you liked and what you were good at, some would have moved on to taking showing seriously.
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There are so many adults in the low classes now at our local venue they divide them by horse or pony the horse class is often much bigger than the pony class even though a lot more adults ride ponies now
 
minesadouble said:
I think that the decline goes as far back as foot and mouth. That year seemed to start a real downward turn in numbers.
Shows local to me have been poorly supported and the riding pony situation is dire.
My mum breeds RP lead rein and first riddens and this is the first year I can remember that she has no foals expected and I don't think she'll cover anything this year either.
Shes not alone in this and it's definitely starting to filter down as she's had producers on the phone from all across the country saying they can't find any decent ponies.
The only classes popular in my locality
are CHAPS.
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Sadly CHAPS has led to much of the decline in breeding but has increased the number of horse owners. Why spend £££££s when you can ‘rescue’ a potential coloured for two and sixpence? So many people are cutting back on breeding potential quality animals because the market just isn’t there at the moment. Hopefully things will improve in a year or so but there’s also a worrying lack of knowledge around along with the disposable cheap to buy animal although not necessarily cheap to keep.
 
A lot of judges don't mind being asked after the class out of the ring but you might need to prompt them as to what horse you had! They will have seen many that day! I only offer feedback if I feel the person is likely to be receptive of it. Otherwise a simple "Well Done" is all you are getting before I scarper so I can keep my head intact and hopefully not have a voodoo doll made of me!
 
EKW said:
A lot of judges don't mind being asked after the class out of the ring but you might need to prompt them as to what horse you had! They will have seen many that day! I only offer feedback if I feel the person is likely to be receptive of it. Otherwise a simple "Well Done" is all you are getting before I scarper so I can keep my head intact and hopefully not have a voodoo doll made of me!
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I guess the thing with showing is that they might not be able to do about the feedback Some advice on how a show could have been better, a pointer about turnout or maybe suggesting your horse might do better in a different class is one thing but if the reality is that the other horses just had better conformation or were better examples of the breed, that's not something you can do much about.
 
I've only stewarded once but I was left totally baffled.
In one class a pony was marked out as being far too fat (pony was tubby for sure but not obese) - included in the feedback to the rider. In the next class, same judge, a grossly overweight/obese one won, with no mention of its weight made.
I did ask about that, and didn't really get an answer so I still don't understand how in one class pony was put further down the line for it's weight then the next class the winner was ginormous. I know there would be other factors like conformation and movement but it seemed odd to remark/punish one but not the other.

I've watched a bit of showing with share horse and found that it definitely seemed to be the 'names' who were getting placed, even when the horse wasn't moving so well. Turnout was more accurate though and not knowing showing I don't know how much is weighted between the 2.
 
Pros tend to win on merit after all that is their trade you can beat them as home produced but unless you learn and observe what they do and how they do it you will struggle to beat them. Only gripe a lot of people have is when pros pretend to be home produced ie riding at top level for others but entering their own horses as amateur produced in one respect they are home produced but that is not the spirit of the class
 
I’ve always liked to do a bit of everything with my horses so I do go to local showing sometimes. I find some are really badly run though with no explanation of what the classes entail, often no detailed printed schedules and an over reliance on Facebook to advertise them. Finding out what is on locally is quite difficult.

I don’t have my own transport anymore either. I recently hired a box, most were already booked up but this one cost me £135 for picking up at 9.30 and getting home by 2pm, this was for a RC show and nothing particularly fancy. Plus entry fees for 3 classes it cost me £165 for the day! When I was young several shows were within hacking distance and the routes suitable for riding on. Those that were further away the yard hired a really big box that could take 6-8 ponies/ horses and we all went together paying a proportion of the cost. Now a lot of people have their own transport and are not willing to take others you’re a bit stuck to get anywhere.

I’m trying to book transport again but one e.g. is fully booked until mid-August. If you’re a child you have to rely on your parents and many would not willing to or cannot afford to pay that sort of money.

I do remember older shows having a more mixed schedule with showing and show-jumping followed by gymkhana and chase-me-Charlie in the afternoon which was always fun. There were classes like handy pony / horse which were good for those who didn’t have a horse that was a typical type and best rider was another that at least you could have a go at on any type. Maybe I’m thinking of PC shows which may still do that.
 
Showing will always be my first love. We have shown for over 30 years, mainly coloured s, also show cob s and hunter s. We have recently done hunter and sport horse young stock classes.
Yes, I fear showing is a dying art. I too was at Bramham, not competing this year as our girl is now 4. The judging there was not good.
At a decent level show (Hambleton) we were the only entry in two inhand classes.The fall off in entries, even for coloured s is obvious. As above, CHAPS are partly to blame, preference by judges for hairies is encouraged.
There are so many more things to do now. For instance, I am at a dressage competition , this is how.many people school for the show ring. Our young horse will then be shown as a5 year old, when she is used to ridden horses coming close to her!
Breeding is going down hill. There is no market for young stock, and few who can bring on and produce.
I have judged a little, and have always tried to say encouraging words. However, a lame or poor looking animal is never going to do well, no matter how well scrubbed!
As for over weight animals, they are not being penalized at all. I think its getting worse.....I love the show cob s, but when every horse is obese, what should the judge do?
 
Years a go took my young welsh A to in hand class for the ‘experience’. Friends daughter took her in- we received no guidance or feedback. Did a lovely little show, very well behaved. The ‘winner’ was adult with a very ill behaved horse- super mover BUT wouldn’t stand still, kicking out, backing up, dragged woman over during trot round and had to be wrestled with! Wasn’t asked to leave the ring, despite other children in there and went on to win!! What a farce! Plus all the bathing, faffing etc for a few minutes in a ring- didn’t seem worth the effort. Pony was well behaved so served my purpose.
Saying that I do enjoy the heavy horse showing at county events or breeds you don’t tend to see much of, I enjoy seeing well turned out natives, tbs but don’t think I’d be tempted to give it a go again- although never say never!
 
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