Are YOs and YMs people to be feared?

[Greylegs]

By this I mean feared for their power over our use and ownership of our horses and the security of tenure those horses have at the nation's livery yards.

I ask following a chat with a fellow livery at my current yard, who is leaving for good reasons (she lives a long way from the yard, and has found somewhere much nearer and more convenient ... nothing to do with the yard itself, the staff, owners etc). I asked when she was going and she said she'd given a months notice. But then she said that she'd arranged with the new yard that she could move into their "spare" stable if she had to leave in a hurry. This perplexed me a bit and I asked what she meant, to be told that <YO> could get very "funny" with people who were leaving and had been known to kick people off with very little notice. She once told a livery with 3 on full livery to leave within an hour!!! (Luckily the woman had made the same arrangement as above, so she went within an hour!)

I know most YOs take the "my yard, my rules" approach to customer service (which is a whole other thread!) but does this appparent lack of security, and the ability of YOs to take this stance, strike a fearful note amongst liveries generally? Surely and contractual notice period of a month (or whatever) means you can stay for a month, even if you've fallen out with the YO?

Thoughts ..... ?

 

[Goldenstar]

On a livery yard you can not there 24/7 so regardless of if you the right to stay your notice who would leave their horse on a yard were there was that degree of bad feeling.

 

[cobgoblin]

I'm beginning to wonder what livery yards have morphed into? Are they now being run by children?

 

[Goldenstar]

Not the ones I know .

 

[alainax]

They shouldn't be. They are a service provider, providing a service to a customer. You don't fear your plumber or hairdresser do you?

They should of course be respected, but not feared. I guess they are closer compared to landlords, who again should be respected, paid for what they provide, but not feared.

 

[Nativelover]

My only experience of livery yards has been where you am currently in the NW, prior to that my mother rented land and a barn from a local farmer in the NE.
The YO's Ive liveried with, all 4 were lovely when looking round and first arrive, but things soon change according to their mood. The worst was being asked to leave after 3 days as the YO and 2 other liveries didn't like my horse! But ive been subjected to screaming, shouting, nasty text messages, threats of horse not being cared for, diddled out of money. I could go on!
So yes I'm very wary/frightened of YO's because they have the ability to make your life hell, and worry for the safety of your horse.

 

[Greylegs]

I'm beginning to wonder what livery yards have morphed into? Are they now being run by children?

I'm beginning to wonder that myself. It's the apparent power of these people to point to the door and tell you to leave almost on a whim, which strikes the fearful note. I'm minded to wonder what they'd do if someone just said "no ... I'll go in a month/when I'm good and ready ...".

In the case I used as an example, they livery is staying on the yard for her notice period, but clearly felt the need to arrange a fall back position, just in case. Very sad ....

 

[Merrymoles]

To be fair, you need to choose your YO as carefully as you choose your yard, although it's not always clear on first meeting who is ok and who is not.

I've experienced good and bad. On the last yard, I saw one livery reduced to tears by a stream of abuse from the YO when she said she was leaving to go to a yard which offered services, which that one didn't, due to changes in her working pattern, and another livery threatened with the police etc because the YO couldn't find the keys she had left for him. That yard is no longer in operation.

Yard before that was brilliant and current yard is fantastic, with a fantastic YO, so no, they are not all to be feared but there are some who shouldn't be running any kind of business.

 

[JJS]

My only experience of livery yards has been where you am currently in the NW, prior to that my mother rented land and a barn from a local farmer in the NE.
The YO's Ive liveried with, all 4 were lovely when looking round and first arrive, but things soon change according to their mood. The worst was being asked to leave after 3 days as the YO and 2 other liveries didn't like my horse! But ive been subjected to screaming, shouting, nasty text messages, threats of horse not being cared for, diddled out of money. I could go on!
So yes I'm very wary/frightened of YO's because they have the ability to make your life hell, and worry for the safety of your horse.

Sadly I had a similar experience with my previous yard owner, which explains why nobody ever stayed for more than a year despite the fantastic location and facilities.

I also had a very lovely yard owner who soured the relationship a little at the end due to giving us only 10 days notice that we needed to leave (this was with a proper livery contract in place). This was not because of something we'd done, but because she'd been trying to secure additional winter grazing, hadn't managed, and had over-grazed the land so much that it couldn't sustain that number of horses anymore. It was a simple case of last one in, first one out, but we'd been there for around three years. It wouldn't have been so bad if we'd been warned beforehand that that was a possibility.

The current yard owner is fantastic, but I think part of that is that he's so hands off. He sees it in very simple terms - we rent stables and fields off him - and leaves us to use them as we see fit.

 

[Tyssandi]

By this I mean feared for their power over our use and ownership of our horses and the security of tenure those horses have at the nation's livery yards.

I ask following a chat with a fellow livery at my current yard, who is leaving for good reasons (she lives a long way from the yard, and has found somewhere much nearer and more convenient ... nothing to do with the yard itself, the staff, owners etc). I asked when she was going and she said she'd given a months notice. But then she said that she'd arranged with the new yard that she could move into their "spare" stable if she had to leave in a hurry. This perplexed me a bit and I asked what she meant, to be told that <YO> could get very "funny" with people who were leaving and had been known to kick people off with very little notice. She once told a livery with 3 on full livery to leave within an hour!!! (Luckily the woman had made the same arrangement as above, so she went within an hour!)

I know most YOs take the "my yard, my rules" approach to customer service (which is a whole other thread!) but does this appparent lack of security, and the ability of YOs to take this stance, strike a fearful note amongst liveries generally? Surely and contractual notice period of a month (or whatever) means you can stay for a month, even if you've fallen out with the YO?

Thoughts ..... ?

Yes you are entitled to stay the month or leave early as long as months pay is settled.

The yard she is moving to should respect that most yards have a 1 months notice in force and you may leave within that notice as long as the full months notice has been paid. Why does your friend not pay a deposit for this stable if the new yard wants to make sure she is serious about moving into this yard. As without that if someone else comes along you may loose it, I think a deposit is a fair call and I have a livery now paying a deposit on a stable while she is looking for a new horse.

The yard is being a bit pushy about it by saying she must hurry up, it would make me wonder what other things they may be pushy if that is how they are with a potential new customer.

 

[Tyssandi]

I'm beginning to wonder what livery yards have morphed into? Are they now being run by children?

That is taring all with the same brush isn't it, just because one yard has no rules no contract, run by unfair Y/O does not mean they are all like that. On the flip side just because one livery is a pain in the a$$ you wont hear us saying.
What has become of decent friendly reliable liveries who pay on time don't break the rules have a nightmare horse. There are no decent ones left they are all more hassle than they are worth let's close are yards down and just have our own horses here, then where will you be?????

We are not just yard owners, we are friends - go betweens when issues crop up - sounding board - step in in an emergency - etc, yes we run a tight ship to make sure the yard is run to a certain standard.

Some yards fall beneath this guideline but that is up to the livery to sort out what type of yard they can afford or suits their needs

 

[Wagtail]

I just don't get it. I run a small yard and I have stayed on good terms with everyone who has left the yard bar one (who I had to give notice to, but I still gave them full notice even though they chose to leave early). I am still in touch with some who have left, and they will pop in occasionally to see how everyone is. I do hear about problems though, mainly on here actually. I don't think it's the norm though. If you think about it, people will post on here if they have a problem but are hardly going to post a thread about leaving a yard and having a perfectly civil time about it. I think YO'ers like the OP is referring to are very rare.

 

[cobgoblin]

That is taring all with the same brush isn't it, just because one yard has no rules no contract, run by unfair Y/O does not mean they are all like that. On the flip side just because one livery is a pain in the a$$ you wont hear us saying.
What has become of decent friendly reliable liveries who pay on time don't break the rules have a nightmare horse. There are no decent ones left they are all more hassle than they are worth let's close are yards down and just have our own horses here, then where will you be?????

We are not just yard owners, we are friends - go betweens when issues crop up - sounding board - step in in an emergency - etc, yes we run a tight ship to make sure the yard is run to a certain standard.

Some yards fall beneath this guideline but that is up to the livery to sort out what type of yard they can afford or suits their needs

I agree....and that is how it used to be when I was on livery.....but some of the tales on here and elsewhere seem to telling a different story.
I used a number of livery yards years ago, and although they always had an element of lively bitchiness...it was rarely serious and I can't think of anyone who was asked to leave. Nor can I think of any YO being 'funny' with anyone who was leaving.

 

[skint1]

I don't think that YO/YM is to be automatically feared but they do have a lot of power, and their management style can have a huge impact on the way liveries (human and horse) experience life on the yard. In my opinion, yards are essentially fiefdoms- the YO/YM can implement any rule they want, they can enforce it inconsistently according to any criteria that they choose and the rules can change without notice. You can follow all the rules you're aware of and yet they can just decide they don't like you and make your life hell, they can order you to leave for no reason- there are probably thousands of threads on this forum alone on the subject.

At the mild end, you might find yourself on a yard where the YO has impossibly high standards and spends all their time judging and critisicing everything you do with your horse even when you're doing nothing wrong- worse, there may be other liveries who join in and you can end up feeling really isolated. You could end up on a yard where they really don't want liveries but have them anyway and put so may rules and restrictions in place that you basically can't function in any normal way and the atmosphere is permafrost. At the extreme end you could have a YO who should absolutely be feared- like the one who shot the horse and dumped it in that girl's garden, bet the liveries on that yard weren't feeling very relaxed after that.

I thank my lucky stars every day for my YO and YM- we have a good adult relationship, they try to be fair ad consistent and it helps make the yard a great place to be.

 

[YorksG]

The fact is that the YO can indeed make the rules on their land. If this is truely a service industry, then the cost has to reflect that fact, which as far as I can see it rarely does. Perhaps if people were prepared to pay the real cost of livery, then the whole thing would be on a more professional footing, everywhere. As an example of the hidden cost/work I spent two hours yesterday sorting out some trees that were growing too low over part of the field, this was just for our animals, on our land, so no actual cost, but if it were for liveries that would be two hours of unpaid work, the same with fencing/harrowing/seeding etc. The only way this will ever be resolved is by paying an appropriate amount or having your own place imo

 

[milliepops]

The yard is being a bit pushy about it by saying she must hurry up, it would make me wonder what other things they may be pushy if that is how they are with a potential new customer.

New yard hasn't told her to hurry up, they've said they have a space for her *if* she needed to LEAVE in a hurry

I've been on all sorts - one yard springs to mind where we never felt welcome as liveries - I voted with my feet Another where the YO seemed to fear the liveries rather than the other way round - but this translated to slightly irrational management and poor communication. And another where liveries became part of the family, which had its own drawbacks :lol:

Current YO has the perfect mix I think - she is incredibly friendly and welcoming, with enough authority and sensible rules to keep everyone in order I wouldn't have any concerns about her making funny snap decisions, and I know if/when I leave we will be welcomed back at any time.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

The fact is that the YO can indeed make the rules on their land. If this is truely a service industry, then the cost has to reflect that fact, which as far as I can see it rarely does. Perhaps if people were prepared to pay the real cost of livery, then the whole thing would be on a more professional footing, everywhere. As an example of the hidden cost/work I spent two hours yesterday sorting out some trees that were growing too low over part of the field, this was just for our animals, on our land, so no actual cost, but if it were for liveries that would be two hours of unpaid work, the same with fencing/harrowing/seeding etc. The only way this will ever be resolved is by paying an appropriate amount or having your own place imo

I don't think cost has anything to do with it. I think it's a power thing. You've only got to hear "my yard, my rules" trotted out on here often enough to realise many (not all) yards are run by people who have no management skills let alone people skills.

I've been on some lovely yards and a couple that if you broached the YO politely about anything they would basically say if you don't like it you can always leave, regardless of what the issue was and how reasonable the request. And of course you can't just leave you have to find another suitable yard and upset your horse in the process so it's used as a threat.

I've personally never fallen out with any YO and have always left politely but there are some where I was fearful of accidentally doing something they didn't like without knowing it as the rules changed whenever they felt like it.

 

[EventingMum]

That is taring all with the same brush isn't it, just because one yard has no rules no contract, run by unfair Y/O does not mean they are all like that. On the flip side just because one livery is a pain in the a$$ you wont hear us saying.
What has become of decent friendly reliable liveries who pay on time don't break the rules have a nightmare horse. There are no decent ones left they are all more hassle than they are worth let's close are yards down and just have our own horses here, then where will you be?????

We are not just yard owners, we are friends - go betweens when issues crop up - sounding board - step in in an emergency - etc, yes we run a tight ship to make sure the yard is run to a certain standard.

Some yards fall beneath this guideline but that is up to the livery to sort out what type of yard they can afford or suits their needs

Totally agree! I generally have long term liveries but inevitably some leave for any number of reasons - financial, moving house, going to uni, changing jobs, end of a loan agreement etc etc the list is endless. However with the exception of one, they haven't left with bad feeling and we've been in business over 27 years. When a new livery arrives they are fully aware of how we run the yard and look after the horses (we don't do DIY) and we both sign a detailed contract which leaves little unanswered. We are as flexible as is feasible and are always open to suggestions and happy to discuss any concerns with our clients.

Some liveries I read about seem to consider themselves the only ones with any knowledge and think the yard should be run to suit them individually whereas in truth the yard owners are trying to keep everyone happy and do so within huge financial restraints as liveries never want to pay the true cost of the service they receive. I'm truly grateful I don't have liveries like this and consider many of mine, present and past, good friends.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Sometimes they can be a law unto themselves.
The yard where I at one time had 4 horses, ( sold last one last spring) was a lovely yard , liveries never moved on, just sometimes changed horses. Place was put up for sale, by the land owner, not the yard manager/ tenant, prospective new owners assured liveries during the sale process that things would stay same. Sale went through last month, and things went downhill, prices hiked, bu £30 a week but services not improved, limited use of school implemented, then notice to leave started to be given to anyone who questioned new owner!!
So from last summer with 13 horses/ponies and 7 happy owners there are now only 2 reluctant owners and 3 horses there..
it's horrifying how things can change just like that... I must add the previous YM was lovely and we are all still friends, and hope that one day she will find another place to rent and start up again..

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Sometimes they can be a law unto themselves.

 

[rachk89]

To be fair, you need to choose your YO as carefully as you choose your yard, although it's not always clear on first meeting who is ok and who is not.

This. When looking for a new yard for my horse I had a good look round the others in the area too and asked a lot of questions. One woman I did not like at all as she said a particular vet in the area was too expensive to go to and she prefers the nearby cheaper option who aren't as good with horses. She also wasn't overly thrilled to do part livery even though she offers it so I have the concern of will she look after my horse properly and will she do the right thing if he needs a vet? Did not trust her so didn't bother. The place was nice, two good sized arenas, good hacking. Crazy owner.

I love my yard, the YO is nice and helpful although he thinks I am nuts. Thinks the horse is too for that matter lol.

 

[Goldenstar]

The fact is that the YO can indeed make the rules on their land. If this is truely a service industry, then the cost has to reflect that fact, which as far as I can see it rarely does. Perhaps if people were prepared to pay the real cost of livery, then the whole thing would be on a more professional footing, everywhere. As an example of the hidden cost/work I spent two hours yesterday sorting out some trees that were growing too low over part of the field, this was just for our animals, on our land, so no actual cost, but if it were for liveries that would be two hours of unpaid work, the same with fencing/harrowing/seeding etc. The only way this will ever be resolved is by paying an appropriate amount or having your own place imo

I have my own place .
I am always gobsmacked that anywhere can offer a decent stable grazing and the use of a school with forage and in some cases round here straw for less than £10 a day .
It's just nuts .

 

[SEL]

Our YO is a very 'interesting' personality. If he gets on with you then nothing to worry about but if he falls out with you then best pack your bags - even if you're in the right!

He's been good to me with my challenging special needs horsey and I think there's a level of mutual respect there, but I pick my battles with care.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I have my own place .
I am always gobsmacked that anywhere can offer a decent stable grazing and the use of a school with forage and in some cases round here straw for less than £10 a day .
It's just nuts .

So you are saying lots of YO are nuts? &#128514;&#128514;

Of course no one is making them take on liveries so they must get something out of it?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Almost all of the YO's I've encountered have been bat **** crazy. I didn't really mind as long as the horses were safe and happy.

Every so often these days I wonder about cutting back to one horse which would go on full livery, selling up here and living a normal life, not one revolving around horse care. Trouble is, I think I'd go bat **** crazy myself if I did that. It's in the blood.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have my own place .
I am always gobsmacked that anywhere can offer a decent stable grazing and the use of a school with forage and in some cases round here straw for less than £10 a day .
It's just nuts .

Indeed,
Part, at least, of the problem, IMO, is that anyone can set up a livery yard. They don't have to have experience or qualifications, or even commonsense and people skills.
. If we had a system where livery yards had to be licensed by the LA or BHS or other body, prices would shoot up but clients would know that they could expect a certains standard of customer and horse care. If clients did not receive that standard of care, they would have recourse to the regulatory body, so YO,'s would n't have absolute power.
How many horse owners would be prepared to pay a professional rate for a professional standard of yard?

 

[YorksG]

So you are saying lots of YO are nuts? &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

Of course no one is making them take on liveries so they must get something out of it?

I think a lot of the small yards set out believing that they will cover the mortgage/rent from the liveries, without thinking about taking a salary as such. What they don't tend to factor in are the demands from liveries for such things as individual turnout, the extra time and money involved in maintenance of buildings and land for multiple horses, often with different requirements (the bare paddock for the fatties, the lusher grazing for poor doers etc). They also don't think about the level of intrusion, if they live on the premises, liveries turning up very early or late, with hordes of friends, or even in one case I heard of, camping in the field overnight! They set their prices too low to start with and then get a lot of grief if they put the prices up (up thread someone complains about a new owner hiking up the prices).There are also the costs which should be taken into account, but often are not charged such as business rates and tax.

 

[laura_nash]

I think a lot of the small yards set out believing that they will cover the mortgage/rent from the liveries, without thinking about taking a salary as such.

The only "bad" yard owner I ever experienced was running the yard like this (to help pay the mortgage and fund her two horses). She went nuts after I had handed in my notice. It wasn't aimed at me and didn't impact on me or my horse. I wasn't leaving for any negative reason, just that my circumstances had changed which meant I needed to move. Unfortunately the YO had some kind of breakdown. Started having a go at another livery and being very unpleasant to her for no reason, then when others intervened she became paranoid that everyone was ganging up on her. In the end most if not all of the livery's left. It was very sad as she'd been great up until then, and really helped me out during my pregnancy. I strongly suspect it was due to financial problems.

 

[mytwofriends]

I lived abroad between 1992 and 2005. Prior to that, and whilst abroad (US) I never ever had a problem with livery yards and their respective YO's/YM's.

But since returning here, I've encountered many complete horror shows. I was shocked beyond belief the first time I heard the language one YO used to her husband and liveries (and I'm no prude.) another ruled with a rod of iron - her way or the highway - we picked the highway - and another came complete with a father who'd yell and swear at his aged mother and fight tooth and nail with his brother.

I'm not evening going there with the lack of horse care and facilities on this last yard - plus downright lies and theft.

So now I rent a tiny yard with 4 acres with two other nice people. I will never return to a livery yard again. I don't plan to once my oldie goes anyway, but my past livery experiences have definitely had some bearing on this decision.

 

[Shadowdancing]

Sadly it's very common I think- based largely on the tales of friends and associates. Because demand will always exceed supply. There will almost always be someone willing to move to the stables you've just left- around here anyway.
I adored the owners at my last yard. Will tell anyone and everyone how great they are; nice NORMAL people! But they had limited land and used the larger fields for their bigger herd- the geldings- meaning my mare had to stay in for weeks on end as her winter field was soon just a bog. Some horses handle this... mine can't. So I had to move. Gave them plenty notice and they were thoroughly professional. Friendly and polite to the end. Miss them terribly!
Current yard.. Im doing fine but others aren't and there is a bit of my way or the highway going on... it's very unsettling.
I wish there was a regulatory or governing body for yards... some of what goes on is beyond appalling... and I'm located not far away from where that horse was shot and dumped in the owners garden...&#128532;