Arena Eventing - I don’t get it

HappyHackerK8 said:
It’s not really a waste of time if folk want to A) just enjoy an event with their horse B) want to school around some XC fences on a young horse/nervous rider. Just because “decent pro riders” don’t do it or because it’s not under rules doesn’t make it a time waste! Each to their own?
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This is a point that makes no sense to me. If you want to school round some arena XC fences, do so in a schooling environment, not at a competition. It's much better value to hire an arena for £30/hour and work around the full course than spend £25 on entering a competition where you get 3 minutes and if you have a problem, you can't work through it. This is why I think arena eventing is a bit stupid - because as a schooling exercise, it is best done without the 'competitive' (random) element.

I used to enjoy the odd arena eventing competition on one of my old horses as he was nippy, pony-like and enjoyed himself - but he was an experienced semi-retired BE100 horse, so didn't need to be there for education. But I fully acknowledged results would be pretty random, because they were based on unknowable times. Might as well just give out joint 1st place rosettes for double clears really.
 
RachelFerd said:
This is a point that makes no sense to me. If you want to school round some arena XC fences, do so in a schooling environment, not at a competition. It's much better value to hire an arena for £30/hour and work around the full course than spend £25 on entering a competition where you get 3 minutes and if you have a problem, you can't work through it. This is why I think arena eventing is a bit stupid - because as a schooling exercise, it is best done without the 'competitive' (random) element.

I used to enjoy the odd arena eventing competition on one of my old horses as he was nippy, pony-like and enjoyed himself - but he was an experienced semi-retired BE100 horse, so didn't need to be there for education. But I fully acknowledged results would be pretty random, because they were based on unknowable times. Might as well just give out joint 1st place rosettes for double clears really.
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Which bit doesn’t make sense? The having fun element? The slightly nervous rider/novice horse wanting to join in an event that’s more low key? Hires are brilliant, but sometimes it is nice (for the average Joe, non pro rider!!!!) to have an added bit of structure that the AE gives - as a soft move to a competition! More horses buzzing around, get dressed up a bit, you know…the FUN elements of horse riding!! As I said EACH to their own…
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
Which bit doesn’t make sense? The having fun element? The slightly nervous rider/novice horse wanting to join in an event that’s more low key? Hires are brilliant, but sometimes it is nice (for the average Joe, non pro rider!!!!) to have an added bit of structure that the AE gives - as a soft move to a competition! More horses buzzing around, get dressed up a bit, you know…the FUN elements of horse riding!! As I said EACH to their own…
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For me competing isn't having fun - it's where you go to test your training. Training is fun.
 
RachelFerd said:
For me competing isn't having fun - it's where you go to test your training. Training is fun.
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That’s your opinion, and I respect that. For me, who is a low level rider, competing is about the experience, building confidence, setting myself a personal challenge, meeting up with other likeminded equestrians, learning from watching them and HAVING FUN! For me training isn’t always fun. It’s focusing, fixing and working hard! Then I get to put my hard work to practice, have the challenge of doing a course as a one off - no going over and ironing out the mistakes! A chance to be proud of my training and yes…have fun! Fun, fun, fun ?
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
That’s your opinion, and I respect that. For me, who is a low level rider, competing is about the experience, building confidence, setting myself a personal challenge, meeting up with other likeminded equestrians, learning from watching them and HAVING FUN! For me training isn’t always fun. It’s focusing, fixing and working hard! Then I get to put my hard work to practice, have the challenge of doing a course as a one off - no going over and ironing out the mistakes! A chance to be proud of my training and yes…have fun! Fun, fun, fun ?
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And i guess this is the point of AE! We got there - not exactly constructively, but we got there! ODE, BE, BS etc all have stringent rules and THE POINT is clear. Unaffiliated stuff doesn’t always achieve this by the nature of it! But there is a point, and if that point is for you - sign up. If not, stick to what you enjoy - or don’t enjoy but do to win! Either way, if people are turning up and it’s a safe environment I’m sure they feel like there was a point…
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
And i guess this is the point of AE! We got there - not exactly constructively, but we got there! ODE, BE, BS etc all have stringent rules and THE POINT is clear. Unaffiliated stuff doesn’t always achieve this by the nature of it! But there is a point, and if that point is for you - sign up. If not, stick to what you enjoy - or don’t enjoy but do to win! Either way, if people are turning up and it’s a safe environment I’m sure they feel like there was a point…
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There is significant debate about it being safe. Fences cannot be pinned but it just about holds up as as weighted and they choose ‘safe’ shape fences that they hope won’t tip. Insurance companies are very leery about it but not been tested with a death yet.
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
It’s not really a waste of time if folk want to A) just enjoy an event with their horse B) want to school around some XC fences on a young horse/nervous rider. Just because “decent pro riders” don’t do it or because it’s not under rules doesn’t make it a time waste! Each to their own?
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I would NEVER take a young or nervous horse arena eventing. It’s setting it up for trouble. I take them schooling round a decent facility but would never put them in a competition for it.

As I said it’s a fun competition for the amateur market but you didn’t read that paragraph.
 
LEC said:
I would NEVER take a young or nervous horse arena eventing. It’s setting it up for trouble. I take them schooling round a decent facility but would never put them in a competition for it.

As I said it’s a fun competition for the amateur market but you didn’t read that paragraph.
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I appreciate that this can be perceived as me being a "snob" or something along those lines - but most of the car crashes you see out unaff AE or SJ are horses and riders that simply aren't ready to be out competing and have put themselves and their horses into a negative situation where the horse's training and confidence will be undone. Training is fun because you can put yourself in a situation to succeed, and you have the time and facilities to fix any problems you come across.
 
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LEC said:
I would NEVER take a young or nervous horse arena eventing. It’s setting it up for trouble. I take them schooling round a decent facility but would never put them in a competition for it.

As I said it’s a fun competition for the amateur market but you didn’t read that paragraph.
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I’m not sure how it’s setting up for trouble if you have done the training first, and are confident but then want a challenge. I read all of your post. I was simply commenting on the part that implied it was a waste of time because “decent riders don’t do it” not everyone is BE level. That doesn’t make us unsafe, uneducated or unqualified to go out to events which is what some people have implied stating “just stick to hires”
 
LEC said:
There is significant debate about it being safe. Fences cannot be pinned but it just about holds up as as weighted and they choose ‘safe’ shape fences that they hope won’t tip. Insurance companies are very leery about it but not been tested with a death yet.
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I’m pretty sure there have been more horse/rider injuries and accidents on the XC field. Let’s not pick hairs to prove a point! We know that all I was implying was that just because it’s low key and beneath some lofty riders does not make it a wast of time! Hunting, XC, SJ and even just hacking comes with risks - I’m sure that most of us will not wittingly put our rides or ourselves at risk!
 
RachelFerd said:
I appreciate that this can be perceived as me being a "snob" or something along those lines - but most of the car crashes you see out unaff AE or SJ are horses and riders that simply aren't ready to be out competing and have put themselves and their horses into a negative situation where the horse's training and confidence will be undone. Training is fun because you can put yourself in a situation to succeed, and you have the time and facilities to fix any problems you come across.
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This completely does sound like you described!!! Car crashes as you put them happen at all levels as we know! And stating that people who aren’t “under rules” are therefore unknowledgeable and should just stick to lessons and training hires is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect from an uneducated snob! Everyone starts somewhere, not everyone want to compete to win! Not everyone wants to affiliate, can affiliate! That doesnt make them any less of a rider! Your entire post here is quite offensive!
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
This completely does sound like you described!!! Car crashes as you put them happen at all levels as we know! And stating that people who aren’t “under rules” are therefore unknowledgeable and should just stick to lessons and training hires is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect from an uneducated snob! Everyone starts somewhere, not everyone want to compete to win! Not everyone wants to affiliate, can affiliate! That doesnt make them any less of a rider! Your entire post here is quite offensive!
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Because let’s face it, there is no entry criteria to becoming affiliated! You just pay your subscriptions! No one checks your training records or deems someone qualified to compete in BE - therefore this doesn’t eliminate the risk of all you have described! In the same way as not being affiliated does not mean you haven’t trained or are incapable! I can’t actually believe you have put that comment, I really can’t! Quite rude and assuming!
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
Because let’s face it, there is no entry criteria to becoming affiliated! You just pay your subscriptions! No one checks your training records or deems someone qualified to compete in BE - therefore this doesn’t eliminate the risk of all you have described! In the same way as not being affiliated does not mean you haven’t trained or are incapable! I can’t actually believe you have put that comment, I really can’t! Quite rude and assuming!
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No, I'm just someone who has spent too much time watching these competitions. And yes, you see car crashes out at affiliated competitions too. But you see more of the bad stuff at the lowest and unaffiliated levels. And I personally think it's because we've got too much of a competition culture in this country and not enough of a training culture.
 
LEC said:
There is significant debate about it being safe. Fences cannot be pinned but it just about holds up as as weighted and they choose ‘safe’ shape fences that they hope won’t tip. Insurance companies are very leery about it but not been tested with a death yet.
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They can be pinned, there are special pins that go into the arena surface, most places only use them on dedicated arenas though to not damage it. Most of the time they get weighted.
 
RachelFerd said:
No, I'm just someone who has spent too much time watching these competitions. And yes, you see car crashes out at affiliated competitions too. But you see more of the bad stuff at the lowest and unaffiliated levels. And I personally think it's because we've got too much of a competition culture in this country and not enough of a training culture.
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You are entitled to your opinion. I simply don’t think training and competitions have to be mutually exclusive. As I have said, I don’t compete purely to win. But I can see that with that attitude of course some disasters may occur at any level if not entirely prepared. Let’s agree to disagree.
 
shortstuff99 said:
They can be pinned, there are special pins that go into the arena surface, most places only use them on dedicated arenas though to not damage it. Most of the time they get weighted.
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I don’t know anyone who pins. Mostly because of the way membranes are set up in arenas, this is at large EC who all run BE qualifiers in the SW. All the fences are sandbagged or concrete blocked.
 
LEC said:
I don’t know anyone who pins. Mostly because of the way membranes are set up in arenas, this is at large EC who all run BE qualifiers in the SW. All the fences are sandbagged or concrete blocked.
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I *think* Somerford pin - and they're out and don't move for the full 4 months they're out
 
LEC said:
I don’t know anyone who pins. Mostly because of the way membranes are set up in arenas, this is at large EC who all run BE qualifiers in the SW. All the fences are sandbagged or concrete blocked.
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There definitely are venues that pin. I know of some up here. It is possible.
 
HappyHackerK8 said:
You are entitled to your opinion. I simply don’t think training and competitions have to be mutually exclusive. As I have said, I don’t compete purely to win. But I can see that with that attitude of course some disasters may occur at any level if not entirely prepared. Let’s agree to disagree.
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I never competed solely to win, most of the time winning wasn't a realistic objective at all. And in the days when unaffiliated cross country was available nearly every weekend and you weren't thrown off the course for missing out a fence you didn't fancy much, or having cumulative refusals at different fences, I used to do the majority of my cross country training at competitions. Because there's nothing like it for getting your blood up to say to the horse "come on, we're doing this! " and it's an essential part of training to get the horse to different courses and not just train over the one or two that are available for training hire locally. And it's a fun low pressure day out.
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I agree with OP.
Daughter has done quite a few of these. I remember one which she did clear at a good , consistent pace (on a pony) only to find the winner was the one who went fairly slowly on a large horse.
It would be better if the optimum time was published up front, but with these ones you really had no idea until the results came out.
She did them because they were good fun but it would have been nice to be able to "compete" more!
 
ycbm said:
I never competed solely to win, most of the time winning wasn't a realistic objective at all. And in the days when unaffiliated cross country was available nearly every weekend and you weren't thrown off the course for missing out a fence you didn't fancy much, or having cumulative refusals at different fences, I used to do the majority of my cross country training at competitions. Because there's nothing like it for getting your blood up to say to the horse "come on, we're doing this! " and it's an essential part of training to get the horse to different courses and not just train over the one or two that are available for training hire locally. And it's a fun low pressure day out.
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This! You can't replicate the feel of a full course with commentators and spectators in training. There is a world of difference between jumping lines of 3-6 fences in training and jumping round 20 efforts non stop. I agree it's not a place to learn basic XC skills or to introduce horses to XC fences. But it IS a place to put that learning into practice in an inexpensive, low key and fun way. Especially at places like Eland with very supportive marshalls who let you continue after elimination and let you miss out a fence in both their HT and AE events. Because they understand you are there to experience competition and many are newish to that. Of course some are perfectly comfortable already and go to try and place or win but I don't think anyone takes the places too sersiously (unless its a qualifier) because where you come is just luck if you are double clear and near the time, and everyone knows it.

I might do some at Vale View t try and make it to the Championship at Aintree. And I will definitely do Chatsworth because it's CHATSWORTH. And I feel hugely privileged to be able to ride there and don't care where I place. I just want the thrill of riding a challenging AE course at an iconic venue at the same time as elite riders are also competing there. The whole weekend is fabulous.
 
Not arena eventing, but this thread does remind me of a time out novice teamchasing when the eventual winners actually had a long pause in their round while they waited for an ambulance to pick up their fallen 4th rider - the optimum time was set *so* bizarrely slow that their ambulance pause gave them the win...
 
ycbm said:
I never competed solely to win, most of the time winning wasn't a realistic objective at all. And in the days when unaffiliated cross country was available nearly every weekend and you weren't thrown off the course for missing out a fence you didn't fancy much, or having cumulative refusals at different fences, I used to do the majority of my cross country training at competitions. Because there's nothing like it for getting your blood up to say to the horse "come on, we're doing this! " and it's an essential part of training to get the horse to different courses and not just train over the one or two that are available for training hire locally. And it's a fun low pressure day out.
.
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Entirely agree!! Entirely!!
 
Ambers Echo said:
This! You can't replicate the feel of a full course with commentators and spectators in training. There is a world of difference between jumping lines of 3-6 fences in training and jumping round 20 efforts non stop. I agree it's not a place to learn basic XC skills or to introduce horses to XC fences. But it IS a place to put that learning into practice in an inexpensive, low key and fun way. Especially at places like Eland with very supportive marshalls who let you continue after elimination and let you miss out a fence in both their HT and AE events. Because they understand you are there to experience competition and many are newish to that. Of course some are perfectly comfortable already and go to try and place or win but I don't think anyone takes the places too sersiously (unless its a qualifier) because where you come is just luck if you are double clear and near the time, and everyone knows it.

I might do some at Vale View t try and make it to the Championship at Aintree. And I will definitely do Chatsworth because it's CHATSWORTH. And I feel hugely privileged to be able to ride there and don't care where I place. I just want the thrill of riding a challenging AE course at an iconic venue at the same time as elite riders are also competing there. The whole weekend is fabulous.
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Agree, agree, agree!!!
 
Ambers Echo said:
This! You can't replicate the feel of a full course with commentators and spectators in training. There is a world of difference between jumping lines of 3-6 fences in training and jumping round 20 efforts non stop. I agree it's not a place to learn basic XC skills or to introduce horses to XC fences. But it IS a place to put that learning into practice in an inexpensive, low key and fun way. Especially at places like Eland with very supportive marshalls who let you continue after elimination and let you miss out a fence in both their HT and AE events. Because they understand you are there to experience competition and many are newish to that. Of course some are perfectly comfortable already and go to try and place or win but I don't think anyone takes the places too sersiously (unless its a qualifier) because where you come is just luck if you are double clear and near the time, and everyone knows it.

I might do some at Vale View t try and make it to the Championship at Aintree. And I will definitely do Chatsworth because it's CHATSWORTH. And I feel hugely privileged to be able to ride there and don't care where I place. I just want the thrill of riding a challenging AE course at an iconic venue at the same time as elite riders are also competing there. The whole weekend is fabulous.
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The whole idea of using competitions to school is one I used to subscribe to, but don't anymore. I've been a lot more successful since changing tactics. Yes to using them for testing training, but never to do the teaching. Because if I have a problem, I can't do anything about it in the moment. I then have a festering problem that needs a resolution. I've never had a horse that needed to be trained about commentators or people - if the training is solid then they cope.

My 5yo had a poor SJ round at Kelsall BE in April, and it was made worse by the spectators and atmosphere - but the heart of the problem was a hole in my training. So we went away and did more training, and no events for 2 months - and he came back to jump double clear in the rest of his events for the season. I could have gone the opposite way and jumped him with atmosphere at shows, and I would have continued to make the problem worse, not better. 10 years ago I certainly would have done...and I suspect I've had made a bigger problem of it.
 
RachelFerd said:
The whole idea of using competitions to school is one I used to subscribe to, but don't anymore. I've been a lot more successful since changing tactics. Yes to using them for testing training, but never to do the teaching. Because if I have a problem, I can't do anything about it in the moment. I then have a festering problem that needs a resolution. I've never had a horse that needed to be trained about commentators or people - if the training is solid then they cope.

My 5yo had a poor SJ round at Kelsall BE in April, and it was made worse by the spectators and atmosphere - but the heart of the problem was a hole in my training. So we went away and did more training, and no events for 2 months - and he came back to jump double clear in the rest of his events for the season. I could have gone the opposite way and jumped him with atmosphere at shows, and I would have continued to make the problem worse, not better. 10 years ago I certainly would have done...and I suspect I've had made a bigger problem of it.
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I don’t think anyone has suggested that it’s used solely to school! My initial post just simply said the AE can be good for young (I didn’t say unschooled, ones with issues!) horses or nervous (I didn’t say beginner, I didn’t say incompetent) riders to use as a soft step into competing! I was trying to be helpful to the OP which asked what was the point in them! Since then this whole thread has been a flex/peacock forum…poor OP! AE is a strange event to go out and try to “win” for all the reasons mentioned. But the point (for me) is just a bit of fun, to have the challenge of it not quite being a training hire, but still not super competitive! Success isn’t everyone’s objective. Confidence, enjoyment, and small gains for me!
 
RF you are taking about YOU and what you need and what’s best for your horses. Brilliant. But people are in different places with different needs. When my daughter started out at Eland she was on a schoolmaster pony who’d gone round there a dozen times with his previous owner. But SHE needed to ride 20 in a row, cope with the atmosphere, remember a whole course etc. She took 3-4 efforts to eventually make it round. She had no problem in training - she just needed to put it all together and AE was perfect for that. There’s a place and use for AE even if it is not something you value or need given where you are in training and competing.
 
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