Arguments for NOT gelding

martlin said:
eh?
the horse is 15 months old... it would be kind of weird if it had a cresty neck. And I would imagine, no, I actually am sure that the grading of stallions takes a bit more into consideration than just the horse's neck.
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:rolleyes: geeze! its just a competition over who has the biggest neck, dont you know nuffin?? ;)
 
Blimey. You're a bit presumptuous arent you? How do you know I don't grade stallions for a living?!? Get off your high horse. Whilst most are cresty,crestiness is not directly proportionate to the quality of the stallion. I think it is you who have showed yourself up to know little,love.... I'm off now,can't be doing with the claws out brigade... Lovely boy OP:)
 
And how do you some of us don't know what we are talking about regarding stallions??
I always thought it was what was in those dangly balls that made a good stallion??
I've seen many a crested Jaffa stallion.
 
I joined this forum today and im actually shocked at the way some of you are behaving . Giving out to this xxlindeyxx for voicing her opinions, now i can really see what this forum is about. She said nothing wrong but yet you lot are giving out to her. Shame on you lot. :mad:
 
What type of stallions are they that you know what your talking about. There are stallions and then there are uncut horses. Quality does not improve as a neck gets more and more crest.
This horse is not a stallion, he is a colt, and I for one would be concerned if he had a massive crest at 15 months old. Sorry if that is a direct contradiction to your expertise, but I have been breeding for 40 years and I've seen a lot of colts and stallions, and just like it's wrong for a boy to have the shoulders of a man so it's very disturbing for someone to want to see a stallions fully mature neck on a young colt.
 
I would say more than anything don't be nasty to your dad - you need to sweet talk him instead so he comes round to the idea. It is his land so his decision ultimately as to whether a colt can stay there as YorksG said.

If you have the experience and facilities to keep him entire then its your horse and your decision. If he doesn't mature as you want either physically or mentally then you have the option to geld. Does he have a dressage career? I know a lot of dressage riders prefer colts as they like the extra spark so I guess you could argue that with your dad. Make sure when you speak to your dad you have thought through everything. The cost of better fencing as he matures. What happens if you get injured/sick - do you have anyone else competent to help you handle a colt etc. That sort of thing.

What are his other bloodlines? Is he part shyaga?
 
No but you did say:
Stallions are normally judged on their necks and conformation.
A stallion who is superb quality should have a nice round cresty neck.
The rounder/bigger/crestier the neck is, the better the stallion.

No, the better the quality of semen the better the stallion. The better his abilty to do a job the better the stallion.

Have a look on the news page and check out the neck on the Totilas yearling scoring the highest 2012 Futurity mark. Not exactly a great crest.......
 
If you have the facilities and experience for a colt, there is no reason not to wait a while. I agree with the sweet-talking option!

Lindey - you are the only person on this forum who, to my knowledge, uses the term 'giving out' - if you are going to join under a false name to defend your silly posts, at least attempt a slightly differing posting style, or something.
 
You looked at a picture of a 15 month old colt and said he should be castrated because a bigger rounder crestier neck was what made a better stallion. Whether your opinion on that quality is correct or not, no one knows how much crest this stallion will have whilst he is still a colt, but for sure it will be more than he will have if he is cut before it develops, hence my suggestion to wait and see what he's like as a 3 yr old. But sadly I don't have the same ability as you to see the finished horse from two pictures of the
baby one.
 
OP, I'm sorry, some of us have been side tracked by nonsense. As I've previously said, I think it would benefit your boy and your own decision on his future to wait before gelding, and like others have suggested, in order to achieve this maybe a softer, less confrontational approach to your father may help. As the old saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
 
I'd post this in breeding there are more experts on this subject in there. To be honest I'd probably geld him, stallions have to lead a lonely life can't be turned out with others etc.
His blood lines wouldn't be the most fashionable either.
 
I don't know nothing about grading etc.. but I can say this.. I didn't geld my youngster until 2 and a half.. he'd retained one, so I held back to see if it would drop. It didn't, so he had the op. At no time was he dangerous, or silly around me, in fact I got a lot of comments about how well behaved he was, and it seemed to surprize people..
My youngster, was not stabled 24/7, he lived out, and loved it.. he lived with another colt, and they'd play for hours..
You already have a well balanced and happy youngster, you should be really proud of him, if you manage to get him to 3 without issues, then I can't see any reason why you should geld early? Get him graded, it's up to you, if he passes, then he obviously has potential, getting him out and about winning rosettes, now that would be icing on the cake ;) Good luck XX
 
If he had a poor start in life and was lacking in strength, keeping him entire might be a way to beef him up a bit. Also, he has some growing to do and the extra testosterone might be useful? As long as he doesn't become unmanageable I see no reason for any urgency. And if he isn't going to be wound up by mares/cover one by accident, there equally may be no need to get on to it right away. A BOGOF foal of completely disasterous breeding has been left entire as he has shown no 'interest or inclination' or colty behaviour at all and his terrible start has left him very straggly and under- developed. The hope is he will, if left uncut, get some kind of neck and grow into his weedy frame. The minute there's a reason to, he'll be done. He is NOT going to be used as a stallion ever.

Don't ask me to comment on breeding potential as it's a long road to proving his suitability and an even longer one to be actually proven, and since it's not your immediate aim...

You can only take it day by day and see if his geniality continues. Kindness and a good temperament are very good qualities to pass on, so a plus worth mentioning. He is quite striking.

Why is your dad so against your decision?
 
If he is good natured it will do no harm to wait & see how he turns out. Once his tackle is chopped off there is NO sticking it back on & you may have a lifetime of regret to look forward to. It will not do harm spare him the chop & see how it goes. Can't say it any more strongly.
 
Do what my friend did and have him graded at 2yrs, if he fails grading or gets to fiesty in the meantime then geld.
 
OP I would think grade at 2 and if no approval then lose the nuts. He is gorgeous looking though keeping him entire for two "broodys" per year is IMO more hassle than its worth, you'll end up with him knowing his job, doing minimal covering and potentially a frustrated pain. If he did transpire to be a superstar he will have to prove himself at the highest level if as another poster said his lines are unfashionable. However do your research....as he stands he may have potential. Assuming he is mannerly and not yet "aware" another few months before a grading attempt could win your dad round plus buy you some time. The argument that development will be better with his nuts doesn't really stack up for me...good feeding and nurturing will do as much and judging by the pics you are already doing this! Not sure if you are getting the horrendous weather we have in Ireland but this would be another argument against cutting him now. Fathers often think they know best...I think offer up grading potential as a meet in the middle and if he agrees then shelve the subject till grading but add in a provision that if hormones come to life and he gets too saucy then he'll be done. This should keep him happy and allow you time to judge how your horse is developing
 
I stopped reading around page 3 so apologies if this has been said. given you have your own land and experience, I would certainly wait until laster to geld him as he does strike me as nicely put together but he has a LOT of growing to do, and I agree with the idea that gelding late will help this, if he has the temperament to accomodate it.

There are some very funny opinions about stallions on internet forums in general, people seem to think they are dangerous man eating beasts that never see the light of day....
 
I'm no expert on stallions but echo what others have said - if you have the facilities, experience and help to manage him sensibly as he matures further, if you can get him graded and out to a few shows to build a name for him then there's no reason not to wait a little longer and see how he develops. He could be worth more in that case but if you cut him early you'll never know if he has that potential.

We had a lovely stallion in Australia (registered Australian Stock Horse) who was very easy to do, didn't have to bridle him to lead or cover mares, he was gentle with his (and visiting) 'ladies', he shared his field with a gelding, at competitions he'd stand quietly next to mares in season (who were flirting crazily!) - we never resorted to Vicks up his nostrils, and if no mares were around and he was feeling a little 'amorous' - well he'd found a way to 'help himself'! He was 8yo when we got him, his previous owners had not been able to back him to saddle though he had been shown in hand successfully, yet he was anybodies ride once trained, as his nature was so sweet. His progeny went onto to be useful show, ridden and working stock horses (I know its no where near to WB, dressage, SJ standards before anyone reminds me!). However obviously he was a rubbish stallion as he had a long graceful neck without any crestiness, oh dear!

Not all stallions are difficult/tricky horses - its in the quality/consistency of the training and handling - be honest with yourself about your skills, facilities and the time you can put in when deciding what is best for your young chap - he'll be a big fella so make sure you don't 'baby' him :-)
 
Good grief......
OP. Grade your horse when its practical to do so.
If you have the facilities to keep him entire then its nobody elses beeswax whether you geld him now or later.
My little *****land was gelded at 5......naff all wrong with his behaviour! (not quite in the same league as your boy mind!)
 
Colts and stallions get do much bad press and can understand someone advising your father to have gelded.
There are many yards I have been on that will not allow stallions on so people don't get first hand experance of them and realise they are all individual.
I recently bought a new forest for my children he had not been gelded although my plan is to geld later in year. He is the most lovely, quietest pony we have ever had and my children can lead and groom him. When I told my mother I had him she went wild with omg why buy something that's entire don't you remember that stallion at x show it trashed the place and hurt some horses.

While that happened 8-9 years ago at a show that all what sticks in her head about stallions even though we also knew 2 lovely stallions that were used as kids riding ponies who were fab.
 
Well I know absolutely nothing about stallions or breeding but OP he is lovely and I am sure he would benefit from a maturity point of view to be gelded as late as possible and I think if you sat down with your dad and explained why you wish to geld him late and that you do not intend to have many new foals running around sired by him and you are capable of handling him as he gets a lot bigger you may convince him that it will be ok to geld late. Good luck.:)
 
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