As a follow on from irresponsible owners! How can I solve this?

[CorvusCorax]

OK so as a trainer (unpaid ) not saying this is you, it is wee bit annoying when you spend a lot of your own free time explaining things and telling people what they could/should be doing and then they arrive the next week and say 'So I read/saw this thing on the Internet and I've been doing that instead'.
Generally we're all speaking from a place of experience/proof of the pudding, none of us are saying these things for fun or are spoofing.

If you've been paying a trainer and they've roundly been saying the same thing as you're getting for free on here, then it's probably pretty sound advice. As with dogs, sometimes with humans I have to say 'stop overthinking it, just do as you're told'.
Usually, because if you follow it properly, it works.

 

[skinnydipper]

I will post this again, somebody might find it useful.

For behaviour modification to be successful it is important that the dog is kept under threshold*. She cannot learn when she is frightened and already reacting. She sounds very stressed and I would suggest giving her a little break from her trigger (other dogs) and let her relax.

When she does go out she should not be pressured to meet and interact with other dogs.

*Below threshold is when the lab is still coping and happy to take treats. If you observe her body language and she is showing signs of stress she is over threshold. If she is barking she is way over threshold.

Her owner needs to know at what distance she becomes stressed and maintain a distance from other dogs which is greater than that. Distance is important.

# Desensitisation and counter conditioning. Use extra special treats, cooked chicken for example, and use it only to reward the desired behaviour. For example when she sees another dog at a distance she is comfortable with and doesn't react, "good girl" in a happy voice, reward with chicken and move away - not towards the other dog. Moving away is also a reward.

If another dog is approaching and it would be difficult to maintain distance, don't panic and show stress instead say (jolly voice again) "lets go" and walk/run the other way, cross the road or whatever. Make a game of it. Reward a successful escape game but not with the "very special treat", keep that for the counter conditioning.

The dog needs to know that she can trust her owner to keep her safe.

Basically what you are aiming for is for the lab to see another dog and look to her owner for her special reward. Pairing the scary thing with something positive (counter conditioning).

Gradually you will be able to decrease the distance between her and other dogs but it is important not to rush things.

In the early days I would avoid busy areas where it is more difficult to control her environment. You don't want her to be overwhelmed.

The owner might find it helpful to buy a Yellow Dog vest or leash sleeve stating that the dog needs space.

Also useful to teach is "watch me", for the times when a close encounter is unavoidable it gives the dog an alternative behaviour to perform instead of focusing on the scary thing.

# Lab's owner could enlist the help of doggy friends and set up training sessions as above.

I know from experience that behavioural modification does work. It doesn't happen overnight and your friend will need a lot of patience but she can celebrate each small success and know that by helping her dog to change her emotional state and decrease her stress, she is improving her dog's quality of life.

 

[Chucho]

I would still say to practise whatever the trainer has advised at home, without distractions so that it is muscle memory for both of you. Otherwise you won't be consistent in what you do and how you ask it and he won't know what is expected of him so you risk him practising variations of it or the opposite of what you want and then have more to undo. That gets frustrating for everyone. He should be able to do the thing you are training in the presence of any distraction (positive or negative) before you trial it on the Big Thing, in this case another dog.

Is he adolescent? They often become nervous of novelty as they mature but you being completely consistent in what to do helps their confidence.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I just fed my dog past a very large and boisterous Dalmatian.
The trouble is I was listening to Pick of the Pops so all this poor bloke heard was Madge warbling Don't Cry for Me, Argentina from my pocket while I'm saying GOOD GIIIIRRLLLL.
Mortified.

And on the return leg, Toni Braxton doing Unbreak my Heart. I actually called over that it was the radio and I don't have awful taste in music.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Nah, you’ve been rumbled, it’s your play list

 

[poiuytrewq]

OK so as a trainer (unpaid ) not saying this is you, it is wee bit annoying when you spend a lot of your own free time explaining things and telling people what they could/should be doing and then they arrive the next week and say 'So I read/saw this thing on the Internet and I've been doing that instead'.
Generally we're all speaking from a place of experience/proof of the pudding, none of us are saying these things for fun or are spoofing.

If you've been paying a trainer and they've roundly been saying the same thing as you're getting for free on here, then it's probably pretty sound advice. As with dogs, sometimes with humans I have to say 'stop overthinking it, just do as you're told'.
Usually, because if you follow it properly, it works.

You’re absolutely right.
I was doing as I’d been told (maybe not as well as a pro would) and had made headway, hence being quite shocked at his reaction to the loose dog approaching yesterday.
I also as mentioned above had a bad experience in our last lesson and wasn’t really sure if it was me being soft or if it was actually wrong.
From this thread I have concluded it was wrong.
It wasn’t nice and he was distressed and I felt terrible.
I have, since having him had some great advice and just back up from this forum- particularly the help from you and Skinnydipper and I think Clodagh at the jumping up which he was terrible for at first. He is now 99% very good at that so sometimes it’s just good to get other peoples pov and suggestions to play around with.

 

[skinnydipper]

Even when you are doing your absolute best with a dog things happen which are outside of your control (other people's dogs) and it can take only one negative experience to knock things off course. It's called single event learning.

You'll get there in the end, p.

 

[CorvusCorax]

So going forward, put the engagement work in place at home, because if it doesn't work at home, it won't work under distraction.
Don't stress out and walk on eggshells out and about but do **expect** him to react badly, it won't one day be suddenly fixed, it is a work in progress, and be ready, get in there and handle it, so he'll eventually look to you for comfort and guidance rather than feeling like he has to take the responsibility for sorting things out.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Even when you are doing your absolute best with a dog things happen which are outside of your control (other people's dogs) and it can take only one negative experience to knock things off course. It's called single event learning.

You'll get there in the end, p.

Oh god. I got a bit stressy (not as In annoyed at the replies, annoyed at myself) reading through and now you’ve made my eyes all hot

Really thank you. I honestly do appreciate it

 

[Clodagh]

And when you walk, make sure you are thinking ‘I’ve got this… I’m so good, and calm, and in charge, and totally on top of life’ because they honestly know what you are thinking/feeling. We give off so many subtle signs.
So when you see another dog don’t think ‘panic, what to do, react, knee jerk’, just think ‘look, a dog, I’ve all the time in the world to breathe and sort this situation’.

 

[SkylarkAscending]

I’ve just saved CC’s advice - I don’t want to hijack this thread but I’m having similar problems with Colin terrier who has learned all his bad habits from the famous George Training time coming up….

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ve just saved CC’s advice - I don’t want to hijack this thread but I’m having similar problems with Colin terrier who has learned all his bad habits from the famous George Training time coming up….

Colin is a fantastic name! Hope you manage to sort it

 

[CorvusCorax]

And when you walk, make sure you are thinking ‘I’ve got this… I’m so good, and calm, and in charge, and totally on top of life’ because they honestly know what you are thinking/feeling. We give off so many subtle signs.
So when you see another dog don’t think ‘panic, what to do, react, knee jerk’, just think ‘look, a dog, I’ve all the time in the world to breathe and sort this situation’.

Yeah that's why I often listen to music (not on headphones so I can listen out for things) but that didn't work out so well for me today

 

[poiuytrewq]

And when you walk, make sure you are thinking ‘I’ve got this… I’m so good, and calm, and in charge, and totally on top of life’ because they honestly know what you are thinking/feeling. We give off so many subtle signs.
So when you see another dog don’t think ‘panic, what to do, react, knee jerk’, just think ‘look, a dog, I’ve all the time in the world to breathe and sort this situation’.

I try really hard not to be uptight and I don’t * think I am usually. It was just the fact this dog was loose and ignoring the owner that maybe gave me an oh sh** moment and maybe he picked up on that, that could well have been part of the problem. Because he’s been ok recently I don’t usually (I think!)

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yeah that's why I often listen to music (not on headphones so I can listen out for things) but that didn't work out so well for me today

To be fair I can probably beat you, they say to sing with a horse playing up to calm them and regulate your breathing… in times of need the only song I can ever think of is Witney Houston’s I believe the children are our future
People must think I’m mental!

 

[planete]

The hardest thing to do when you know something might trigger your dog is keeping all your attention on your dog and not letting it drift to the trigger. We all do it unconsciously and it is very hard to keep your focus 100% on your own dog when a potential threat appears. I really started making progress with a reactive dog only when I was made to realise I must not let my attention stray from my dog for one millisecond in order to keep his attention on me.

 

[Clodagh]

To be fair I can probably beat you, they say to sing with a horse playing up to calm them and regulate your breathing… in times of need the only song I can ever think of is Witney Houston’s I believe the children are our future
People must think I’m mental!

I used to sing ‘how much is that doggie in the window’ and change the words to suit my dogs names. One day I realised my neighbour was the other side of the hedge.