Ask a Parelli student....no holds barred....you asked, I giveth.

[Tinypony]

Ponynuts, you could at least have the courtesy to read Tongue in cheek's responses on the thread about Catwalk, which make it clear that she does not believe that was the best way to deal with him.
TIC has been polite, patient and courteous in all of her postings. Why can't you be the same?

 

[Graureiter]

@ TnC: Thank You very much for the time and effort you are putting into this thread.
Have you by any chance read "Top Horse Training Methods Explored" by Annie Wilson ? I just found it in a Halfprice Bookstore today.

 

[pippinpie]

Nice post TP
I think a lot of horses are build on the forehand and being ridden makes this worse, thats why so many want to get the horse into an outline as soon as they think possible, (while they are being broken/started, mostly ) in the UK anyway.
A lot of the videos I see of freestyle are of American quarter horses who by their conformation have a lower head carriage than some of our British/ continental horses and it also appears to me that many are left on their forehand, but a trail horse whether here, USA or any where in the world actually needs to learn to find its feet and look where it's going and you can't do that so well when riding in a finesse style.
Parelli has always said that the levels are a ladder to take you higher but if you (one) want to get off that ladder with a good level 2/3 you and your horse will still have come a long way.
Because my horses were all broken and competed long before I got into PNH I am finding it hard to take them back down to freestyle one of my horses RBE/RBI hates it when I ride him freestyle (he's OK on hacks he likes it then) but on turf or a school he gets scared and looses trust, weird I know, but it like he's saying, if your not in control then I'm off and he gets faster and more unconfident and I have ended up taking back the contact and restoring his confidence, it's what he has always known, contact meant rider in control, no contact horse in control.
We are working very hard on this and keeping it very slow at the moment, but if my old friends saw me teaching him freestyle I know they would think I was nuts

 

[Hollycat]

Thanks for the explaination Tinypony. Makes sense now

I think I am off to bed soon. Goodnight everyone!

 

[Bay_Beasty]

No you are right - I didn't read all of your postings because I had read enough, I don't need to hear from anyone who believes that the best way to put a bridle on a horse is to tie its leg up with a rope, you could never in a million years convince me or thousands of other very experienced horse owners any different. I stick by my original thoughts of Parelli - if you are prepared to defend this 'showmans' public humiliation of that poor horse then so be it - but please do not patronise me or the majority of the equine world who have enough sense to see him and his wife for what they are - no more than circus horse trainers with no respect for horses whatsoever! Now - I'll leave you to your few moments of fame, here anonymous on a forum - following in the footsteps of your 'leader', praying on those with less experience than yourself and leave you to can a few bucks from other people's misfortunes! I hope that by next weeks edition of H&H things may look a little different for the Pratelli's.

Go back and read this post from the beginning. You have just made yourself look like a fool. T n C has not once said she condones the practice the Pat did that night. She opened this thread up for some discussion so people could get their questions answers. The fact you cannot be bothered to read the rest of her post is rude and ignorant. She has given her time freely over to answer questions other people have put forward in good faith. She has not been arrogant, rude, pushy, belittling or disrespectful. At no point has she said we are all fools and the Parelli is the only way, at no point has she thought herself better, and at no point has she fought for what pat did that night. If you cannot be bothered to read the post, fine, but don't post your opinions on it either. there unnecessary.

 

[brighteyes]

No you are right - I didn't read all of your postings because I had read enough, I don't need to hear from anyone who believes that the best way to put a bridle on a horse is to tie its leg up with a rope, you could never in a million years convince me or thousands of other very experienced horse owners any different. I stick by my original thoughts of Parelli - if you are prepared to defend this 'showmans' public humiliation of that poor horse then so be it - but please do not patronise me or the majority of the equine world who have enough sense to see him and his wife for what they are - no more than circus horse trainers with no respect for horses whatsoever! Now - I'll leave you to your few moments of fame, here anonymous on a forum - following in the footsteps of your 'leader', praying on those with less experience than yourself and leave you to can a few bucks from other people's misfortunes! I hope that by next weeks edition of H&H things may look a little different for the Pratelli's.

I think you haven't read this thread in its entirity. Everyone else has remained calm, objective and polite. Up until your post. Feel perfectly free to differ as this thread was all to do with asking why. If you don't like or disagree on principle with the answers, fair enough. Explanations are all t~n~c has offered and indeed given. No excuses, scathing comments or patronising words.

 

[Battyoldbint]

This has to be one of the most innteresting posts ive read on here,well done TIC and everyone who has contributed

 

[pippinpie]

As this is one of the most civil threads that I have participated in on HHO, can I ask for some forum help?
How do I get to highlight my words if I want to write between a quoted persons statements to distinguish between theirs and my words?
How long does the post allow you to edit it?
Thank you

 

[Cobber]

Wow, thats taken the whole night for me to read so I think ill throw my two cents worth in. First time i ever saw Parelli was at a demo in college and I have to say it brought tears to my eyes, i thought it was beautiful. Needless to say i instantly wanted to rush out and buy all the stuff and become a Parelli follower. Thank god for being a student as i couldnt afford all the kit.

I later realised that it wasnt for me and though I wouldnt say i follow any particular method i just do what works for me though i do rate Monty Roberts Kelly Marks etc. I started watching some american horse woman (cant remember her name )on rural tv (which has now been cancelled and I did learn some useful tips for my spooky loan horse which i have put into practice effectively, though i didnt agree with everything she did.

I prefer MR as i like the idea of the horse coming to you as a nice place to be as opposed to Parelli which appears to be alot of getting the horse to go away from you. (Sorry im very parelli uneducated and correct me if this is wrong). I think there are elements of most horse training techniques which can be used in some positive way and I will always take time to sit and watch something new and different to see if there is anything that I can learn and use in my own way.

Thanks TiC for taking the time to respond to everyone. After all the followers you seem to be getting on here maybe you should start your own training method and flog a load of dvds 'I cant believe its not Parelli'

(You may not get that if in the states you dont get a certain brand of non butter margarine thats difficult to believe)

P.S I couldnt watch the whole video in your sig, i couldnt get past the cowboys lassoing that poor horse with the broken legs but i have signed the petition (twice by accident woops!)

 

[baymareb]

As this is one of the most civil threads that I have participated in on HHO, can I ask for some forum help?
How do I get to highlight my words if I want to write between a quoted persons statements to distinguish between theirs and my words?
How long does the post allow you to edit it?
Thank you

When you hit the "quote" button on someone's post, their words will come up bracketed by 2 codes. The first at the beginning will be something like this

The last is simply a bracket [then slash/ and the word Quote followed by ]

If you want to split their quote up, you have to begin and end each portion of the quote with the above codes. Easiest way for me is to copy the first and longer code and paste it at the beginning of every succeeding quote and just type out the second code at the end of each quote.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[pippinpie]

When you hit the "quote" button on someone's post, their words will come up bracketed by 2 codes. The first at the beginning will be something like this

The last is simply a bracket [then slash/ and the word Quote followed by ]

If you want to split their quote up, you have to begin and end each portion of the quote with the above codes. Easiest way for me is to copy the first and longer code and paste it at the beginning of every succeeding quote and just type out the second code at the end of each quote.

Hope that makes sense.

Thank you so much for taking the time but I can do that bit fine.
What I have seen is someone wrote all their replies to different parts of the quote, within the quote and those words were highlighted red so you instantly saw who was saying what, but I found not highlighting facility, maybe they copied the whole quote put it maybe in 'Word' and highlighted it before copy/pasting it back if that makes sense :EEK:

 

[baymareb]

When you hit the "quote" button on someone's post, their words will come up bracketed by 2 codes. The first at the beginning will be something like this

Oh, I see what you're saying! I think in that case what you want to do is stick your cursor in wherever you want to comment, then click on the "A" at the top of the box (to the right of "font" and "sizes" - you can choose a color from the drop down menu and then write what you want to highlight. Hopefully this works so I don't look like an idiot!



Thank you so much for taking the time but I can do that bit fine.
What I have seen is someone wrote all their replies to different parts of the quote, within the quote and those words were highlighted red so you instantly saw who was saying what, but I found not highlighting facility, maybe they copied the whole quote put it maybe in 'Word' and highlighted it before copy/pasting it back if that makes sense :EEK:

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

i recieved a few pms regarding my post of being a bit peeved. dont worry the only thing that will stop me from this is pure exhaustion.

i am just really pissed. delete delete.... am leaving to take my mom to the movies for her birthday, I will be back probably after you all are in bed.

sweet dreams

Just an appology here. some one enlightened me that 'p_ssed' is a cus word here. so sorry for that, I have no idea your words though we supposedly speak the same language. the first time I heard someone describe pulling an 8horse lorry, stuck in the inside lane of a 5 lane round about, we all sat there with blank looks on our face, as we couldnt see the humor in THAT~

even here in the states, east coas vs west coast, we call some things tottally different things. my husband is from the north east and one time told me to fill my cup in the bubbler. um sure, just tell me what THAT is. "water fountain"

any ways this person suggested i mention a fanny bag, to get you all rolling, though I wouldn't know in what context to use it in a sentence

I know what it is here, but I have a feeling, it is something quite different to you!

Krikey

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

FWIW, I like Clinton Anderson's take on this idea, comparing his method to getting a recipe from a friend

"I'm showing you how I make a cake. If you use the tools I use and do exactly what I do you will get the same cake. You can use different tools or ingredients or techniques and you still might get a very good cake, but it won't be the same cake."

WOW, I just went shopping P wants $40 for a halter....CA's are$25, and I do own several, different sizes

I actually started NH with clinton. I liked him because he was free to watch on rfd-tv. I have seen EVERY one of his episodes. And I liked that he does not leave one detail out. He is just to agressive for me. I have seen him in person, including a clinic he did at our barn before he was famous. I was traditional at the time and watched part of it, and was proud of several of the boarders for finally getting muffin out of thier space. I saw the dood in it and never critisized them. then a trainer came out who was hodge podge and treated us all like crud and called us horse abusers, that i when I went on my anti-nh mission not a proud moment for me, but I was at the front of the bashing as NH was just getting a foothold, so I have seen the full progression of the ANTI movement from the beginning.

I too like clintons take on the cake, and also his approach to people. Dennis reis is good but weird. if I watch him, I turn the volume down. I have had personal dealings with cris cox, and he was a fair, smart, consise and effective and also has a good approach to people. I watch Julie goodnight, Ken Mcnabb, Craig Cameron, Richard winters, Monty roberts, and who ever else thay have have on tv. John Lyons is a totally different approach, and while good, gives me good naps. I think one of the phenoms for Parelli as for why he is more critisized (current events withstanding) is that he puts people off by the prof predator remarks, and slightly superior attitude.

i can offer just this one suggestion, when dealing with a person in a public speaking venue. they may not be speaking about YOU. there is a large mix of people in the stands, from all walks of not only horsemanship, but life. so while he is talking to someone, it may not be you. so on a personal level, no need to feel defensive, when he talks of things that are, um, not nice to do to a horse, he may be speaking to they guy next to you, that really needs to hear it.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Thanks very much for your reply T n C. My Parelli/NH friends could actually never tell me why verbal communication was discouraged so I am glad to have an answer. Even if as a scientist and student of vet med I do not agree with the logic behind it I can see we will both be happy to agree to disagree on this issue To follow this thinking that horses are not verbal communicators in the same way humans are - neither are dogs and yet 99% of people with dogs use verbal communication with them. I bet the Parelli's also give voice commands to their dogs (if hey have them) - otherwise they probably have lots of chewed carrot sticks (joke).

As another poster said (sorry can't remember your name) you can improve your own skills by being quiet sometimes. I have also found this, contrary to my nature though it is, so I do not discount training in silence. I just find that I need to select the best method for each individual horse and for myself at that particular time- and for me I do find voice commands very useful particularly with young horses.

Everyone will train according to their own preferences. I will borrow my friends Parelli DVD's and pick out anything new which I think is useful. I don't have the personality to slaveishly follow 1 regieme and the thought of training with an instructor that could only use certain methods (even if these were not the best for the horse!!!) just because his guru says so brings me out in a cold sweat. There is lots of me to learn from Parelli as there is with many other teachers. I just need a horse to practice on now

what! no horse I have a few spares that are feeling lonely.

May I make a suggestion? going to anyways. if you have a local rescue org, I am sure they would love all the volunteer help they can get

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

This is a genuine question and it doesn't have a hidden agenda.

Why is there need to demonstrate that problems can be solved at speed?

I don't understand or know enough of the full range of Parelli methods but what puts me off from going further is the image that has been put forward that all problems/any problem can be solved by a miracle worker in front of an audience and within a matter of hours.

Do Parelli followers accept that sometimes things may take a little longer and for the sake of the horse in question that maybe sometimes they should be handled where there isn't the stress of an audience. Or (and this really is genuine), it is part of the training that as you progress through the star rating level, the treatments get quicker.

My stallion was abused and he became aggressive and dangerous. I needed help and I looked for it. Potential helpers fell into 3 camps:

1. yes I can help, it will take me x number of days
2. yes I can help, send him to me and I'll let you have him back in x number of weeks
3. I don't know if I can help or how long it will take but I'm prepared to try

I went with the person from the third group because to me, that was honest. She wasn't Parelli and she spent the first session with my stallion and then every subsequent session with the two of us. Sessions lasted as long as they needed to - a couple were no more than half an hour, several were over three hours. But at no point was any expectation set about achieving a result in a set timeframe.

That's the bit about Parelli that worries me. Sometimes there are steps forwards and sometimes massive leaps backwards - I think even Mr Parelli accepts this in his apology about FOTH. So, why is it still "sold" on speed of delivery.

This of course is only my perception, but I think few would disagree.

The "show" with the parelli's is quite different from the program, in regards to speed. When they are on tour, yes it is promotion for the program. Pat and Linda only have a couple of hours to show you what they've got. Usually the venue includes the blah blah blah's, who we are, what we stand for, and what we can offer you. they have students of various levels come and show off from the local area, so you can see what the program has done for them. lessons with a student to show they might solve a problem that the student may be having. A demonstration of them and thier own horses.

And of course the problem horse. And of course it would be not much of a promo, if they solve no issues with the horse infront of you. But what I think the problem horse demonstrates, is that

1. this horse has not been exposed to the techniques before
2. what the current state of the horse is having used other methods or no method.
3. that the said horse does have a problem, even if the only problem is it's owner

and what the results show is

1. that the program does work
2. that the program does work
3. that the program does work

the only reason speed is required is because they only have that small window of time with butts in the seats.

people want to see the change and need to see the change

or they walk out the door saying, "i knew it didn't work"

not much of a promo if they leave saying that.

I have never seen a horse that pat couldn't change easily in that time frame. Until now. while the horse changed, the perception of the crowd doesn't. or does it? I think this last weekend speaks heavily to that question. danged if you do, danged if you dont. My personal opinion, the accusations of "it didn't work, pat couldn't do it" had he quit sooner than later, would have been far less damaging for all involved than the accusations they face by continuing on. Did he help the horse? yes was it pretty? no (opinion in another answer)

as far as the program goes, no where do they say, you must/should do this at speed, infact it is the contrary.
no where is there 'taught' quick fixes. nor do us as students think we can fix horses at speed. however, the more you know, the less time it takes. we as students no only accept that, but we say 'whew"

the 'show' is also a way for us students to go and learn and get inspired, and to meet new friends.

the program has no time frames, but they also don't want you to get stuck either, so the current audition process is a live, unedited version, and they don't expect it to be perfect, they want to see what you do when it doesn't go as you planned.

myslef as an example, I was expecting perfection of my self, and making things worse for both me and my horse. put off the audition, went on to something else, and came back to it with a fresh mind. it was far from my expectations of myself, and I didn't think I would pass. but I said "screw it, lets see what they have to say about this' sent it in and passed. yeah!

I am a big advocate of progressing and not being affraid to try.

PS, there is another question I need to answer about why parelli takes so long as I have said....everyone has a different perception of parelli/NH

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Have watched the above and I'm in no doubt worse goes on!! and signed the petition.

thank you. the numbers are really starting to come up

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I've got a question T-I-C. The post above about the Yo Yo says
"He should have used much longer phases phase 1 minimum 5-8 seconds, same with all phases, etc..."
Now, I agree that is the Parelli 4 phases as it's taught, but when I saw Pat himself working with horses, it isn't how he applies it. When he uses 4 phases it's much quicker. For example, his arm starts to go back straight after his finger waggling hasn't worked, he taps the ground and then his arm is getting ready to make contact. Haven't you observed that when you have been with him?
Just to make it clear, although it looks pretty mean when Pat does this (and I don't agree with the use of 4 phases anyway), I think in a way he's fairer on the horse. Students count the seconds between escalating each phase, and as they do so they desensitise the horse to the phase they are using and that encourages the horse to brace and endure a higher phase. Then, they often have to repeat many times before their own personal "phase 1" starts to work. Pat kind of goes "I'm asking, it's coming, it's got you!", really quickly. And because of that the horses get real responsive to phase 1 real quick. So it's sort of no pain no gain (and again I'm not pro that approach), but it is fairer in a way because the horse suffers less grief, swinging clips and nagging in the long run.
I've first saw Parelli at a Savvy Day in 1998 by the way, and it was a great day because loads of students were involved and showed what they could do. The big hype these days is very un-British and alien. However, it was seeing Pat himself work with horses away from Savvy Conferences that started my move away from Parelli, as I had seen a few other trainers who got the same (and often better) results with a lot less stress to the horse. In other words, I didn't follow the PNH wisdom that you don't have enough savvy to evaluate another trainer until you've passed your (old!) Level 3.

yes. 4 clear equal phases are for teaching. (I prefer 4seconds each) either the human or horse. as you would imagine, it takes the human longer to get the concepts than the horse. when a student already has the concepts down, the move on to L2 phase concepts of a long phase 1 10+ seconds, and a quick 2-3-4, 1-2 seconds. when it is just a matter of teaching the horse, I only use the 4 clear phases a few times, till i see the horse gets the intended message before phase3, then I move on to L2 phases. this is usually for me now a matter of minutes.

if I have a horse crowding me, I got to phase 4 first. safety first. but my level of phase 4 now is higly developed and is usually one good pop, then I turn my body away. I almost always get the look of, "oh" "sorry" "that was rude of me"

I answer, 'why yes it was. wanna try it again?"

a rarely get a yes

for me, crowding is a #1 no no. it usually prevents no-no's #2 & 3, biting and striking. if they arent on top of you, they can't do those.

I flat out do not tolerate it. it just isnt safe and since i have kids around, they all know not to crowd ANYONE

I believe EVERYONE at EVERY level has he right and intelligence to evaluate a trainer in regards to using the trainer for thier own selves, and even if they know the trainer well. periodic "re checks" I feel are good for all involved. rather than blind acceptance for all time.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

For shame! You don't deserve that at all. They should be thanking you for being such a gracious ambassador, because your posts here are doing far more to let people see the good aspects of PNH than the current, official spin.

I'm on page 22, woo hoo!

thank you. though that is not my mission to try to fix this situation, I would be a fool to think it would. i agree it does have a great side effect huh?

I need not glory or fame
to attach to my name

 

[Tinypony]

Re what Pippinpie said about Freestyle... We may be refering to different levels 2+3. With the old levels only a handful of people ever made it to level 3 before they left (or became instuctors). The new level 3 demands a lot less.
As for teaching a trained horse Freestyle, I do wonder what the point is sometimes. I you've got a horse that works well now, why have it start to work heavy on the forehand at all? Take what you've got and make sure you've got proper balance, then allowing your horse to work low will be a matter of changing the position of your hands. But it still won't be heavy in the front. That's a much more difficult thing to find than "freestyle".
I'm sure this is why many people wonder why the Parelli horses are being allowed to stumble around areans unbalanced. If you take a horse that has relied on the rider to hold it up for years, then you take all that away, they flounder.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I am off to bed, I don't know if you guys get the same american movies that we do here, or any at all. but "night and day" with tom cruz and cameron diaz, two thums up for sure.

see you on the flip side.

 

[Tinypony]

p.s. TIC maybe some day I'll persuade you that you don't need phases or a "good pop".

 

[pippinpie]

Originally Posted by baymareb
When you hit the "quote" button on someone's post, their words will come up bracketed by 2 codes. The first at the beginning will be something like this

Oh, I see what you're saying! I think in that case what you want to do is stick your cursor in wherever you want to comment, then click on the "A" at the top of the box (to the right of "font" and "sizes" - you can choose a color from the drop down menu and then write what you want to highlight. Hopefully this works so I don't look like an idiot!



Thank you so much for taking the time but I can do that bit fine.
What I have seen is someone wrote all their replies to different parts of the quote, within the quote and those words were highlighted red so you instantly saw who was saying what, but I found not highlighting facility, maybe they copied the whole quote put it maybe in 'Word' and highlighted it before copy/pasting it back if that makes sense

Ahh now I think we are on the same page now, but the problem is I don't have any box/bar with options for font size/ colour and thats what puzzles me, on the other forum I use there are options to size/ colour and highlight plus add smileys and other things but I don't seem to have any of those options on this forum!
I have had problems with my IE not showing sites as they should, I will open up my Google chrome and see if this site comes up better.
Thank you for your help

 

[pippinpie]

Ahh now I think we are on the same page now, but the problem is I don't have any box/bar with options for font size/ colour and thats what puzzles me, on the other forum I use there are options to size/ colour and highlight plus add smileys and other things but I don't seem to have any of those options on this forum!
I have had problems with my IE not showing sites as they should, I will open up my Google chrome and see if this site comes up better.
Thank you for your help

Problem now solved, a bit of lateral thinking did it, when you hit a brick wall you have to make a turn!
I went to my user cp, then edit options, then Miscellaneous Options and there it was I only had basic edit options and I changed it to standard and voila I get my new edit bar on the write new post box
Thanks for helping.

 

[Tannis]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I was a bit worried it was all about results at any cost and at hyperspeed. Thanks for putting it in context and explaining the difference between the "show" and the "programme"

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

p.s. TIC maybe some day I'll persuade you that you don't need phases or a "good pop".

I should have used more detail I suppose, it isn't the FIRST thing i "try" to keep a horse off me. but due to the fact that I have been writing ALOT, I try to stick to as relevant of details as possible to answer the question. also to stick to the representative of parelli, and not what may be "tools" from my previous days. with the vast experience that "I" have with dangerous horses (not difficult just dangerous) I don't play around. I have had a 15hh yearling tb, rear up and land on top of me, after draging me 300 feet with a chifney bit in mouth, pulling one arm out of the socket, and nearly disloging the other one with a hoof, after hitting me in the head. (looooong time ago, I was 17yo?)

I make no bones about my safety. safety and learning are two different things in MY book. setting parelli aside. again a brain of my own. if I feel my life is in danger, that is fixed first, then learning can begin.

this may sound like an oxy-moron here, but I protect my personal space, and that of the ones I love, at all costs from anything, be it human or beast. My reactions are based on my perception of the "level" of the threat. I have learned to make split second descisions. i am NOT always right. if NOT, I do what I can to make up for any harm that I have caused. But all is out of "deffense" not "offense" if that makes "sense"

my personal philosophy

"stay the @#$%^& off me, and then we'll talk"

as far as

p.s. TIC maybe some day I'll persuade you that you don't need phases or a "good pop"

perhaps you will.....................perhaps you will http://www.partipeeps.com/smilies/smiley_hug.gif

feel free to PM me what ever you wish and I will have a looksie.
.
.
.
.
ok this it kinda 2 posts in one, i am glad i got up for a cigarette before I hit the send button. I feel the following should shed some light on to the exact purpose of this thread. which is 'just how easy it is to put some on one the deffensive" how just one simple word can change the interpretation of ones "intentions". in this case the word "pursuede"

for ME that word implies that somehow you feel I need to be enlighted of my ignorance and that I need to be shown a better way.

Now I am intelligent enough to know you may well not feel that way. but intelligence is not the only thing that guides us in our lives. we each come from a very different set of life experiences and websters dictionary isn't the only thing that gives a word meaning. often it is our experiences with words that creates an emotion. emotions often are the driver of our craft, not intelligence.

I put alot of thought into the things I do, both before and after the "do".
there is little in my life that I don't put ALOT of careful thought into. this thread is one of them. I had a thought, "what if", and I acted on it, with little thought. at first I thought I had made a foolish mistake in doing so. it would have been nothing for me to walk away and never act on any reply posted as no one would be the wiser to who did it. but I didn't as my integrity even to this annonomous avatar is important to me. it has evolved and caused me to ponder a great many things about what I do, and what I think. But this thread is about explaining to those who have questions about parelli NH, because that seems to always be the one that is so publicly questioned, not the others, though they all do similar things with similar equiptment. and I am only doing it because parelli is infact what "I" do, though I am quite fluent in other methods.

I always knew this was possible, but now it is no longer my thoughts. It is real. It can be done. And in the face of great challenges and highly charged emotions. I ask my self why no one is talking about it on the savvy forum. Not about me, but about this experiment, and how it is going. it seems that few care about the fact that a way for the door to be opened for themselves at thier own barns has been presented to them. there is no talking about "wow, i didnt see how my own interactions could be making my situation about my yard more difficult for myself" or "wow, i didn't realize that traditionlist may have been beat about by an NH'er before me, they associate that with me, maybe if I too open the door for conversation, I can make MY life better for co-existance". Quite ofthen there is a thread started about how upset someone is that they are yet again getting bashed about the head, soley because they do parelli, regardless of thier level of envolvment.

I will say that this imformation has been presented to them before, and was well recieved by some, there just was no proof. it was a mere "theory" of mine. now there is proof, it can be done.

I don't care about "credit' for this. truly I don't. I did nothing more than to try to show those that are experiencing difficulty with interpersonal relationships about thier yards, that it is in fact possible.

but alas, no talk of it. no pondering and discussing of it. no blinding flashes of the obvious.

back to us. I admit, I felt defensive about what you said. why? I don't know. I just know that I do/did. are there "other" and possibly "better" ways to do things? Of course there are. I am full aware of that fact. Is parelli an 'other' and possibly "better" way that what others are doing? Of course it is. but that is not what this thread is about. it is not about who is right or wrong. who is better. what technique is better. while I welcome discussion about those things, my point was to help the parelli students who want it, be understood for not being brainwashed, blind sheep, who follow without question. And to answer questions about it. no where do I state in any of my answers that is the only way or the best way, just the parelli way, as I understand it.

When i got into NH, it was because my performance horse was injured and no longer able to compete. I had a small child and a new large farm, little else to do with my horse, and set about to prove that NH was stupid. to prove it wouldnt work with dressage. to prove to those mindless minions that they were brainwashed, and needed to leave me alone. But I, unlike many, at least decided to give it a try, an honest try, to see if it had ANY merit, not just rely on assumptions and other peoples opinions. but my underlying perception was that it didn't have any merit, and I was hellbent on proving it. little did I know, they it would take me on the journey of a life time (much like this thread) I have to say, in the beginning, I looked a fool. blogeoned myself with that stick and string. for such an experienced horse person, I looked like I had just bought my first horse and a copy of "horses for dummies" and set about to get my self killed.

because of this, because I was someone who spent 3yrs of my life, defending my ways and bashing NH'rs (I am REALLY good at it by the way) I felt that I was best suited for this mission. for I have spent the last 8yrs now defending NH. I know both sides of the fence quite well. I have seen not only the view from each side standing firmly on the soil, but also the view from the top of the fence, as I sat there a great deal.

I am not here on this thread to promote nor defend parelli natural horsemanship, only to explain it as I understand it.

I do not expect that this will have much significance to anyone other than myself. but I do know, that I have changed the mind of at least one person (not conversion/just perception) and we are now friends. she is the only one I have revealed my self to, besides the one who saw right through me. my new friend who vehemently hated parelli and its followers(correct me if I got the hate wrong) and not a fan of mine in the beginning, has now seen some of my videos, and as a friend can see the beauty it holds for me. what more can a person ask for? I have touched the life of 2 people, hers and my own. it is something that i will treasure until i die. (wiping tears from face now)

so whether or not I respond to anyones request to see what "they" do, trust me when I say, that your words are not falling on def ears, though I may stay mute. This thread has caused me to reconsider my position on things I regard as fact. so in a sense, you all are touching my life in a very profound way, though I may not tell you personally (i have alot of dang quesions to answer) I can only imagine that if this thread has done that for me, that it is doing it for some others as well.

Keep in mind that words are the most powerful weapon in our arsenal. wars have been started, faught with, and won, by words alone. the least we could all do is be civil to our fellow man, and give them the courtesy of the benifit of the doubt.

Ramling thoughts concluded, we will now resume our originally scheduled program.

ps, I am not injured by your word, "it's all good" pm me what ever you would like for me to review.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Wow, here is to the power of ONE word. TP, you have no idea what your tiny post has set in motion in my mind. don't worry, it is a good thing. But a tangent now is what I am on.

Let me just say this to the power of what parelli teaches, like no other I might ad.

Our horses are our mirror. A direct reflection of our selves. when I present my horse with a question, he can no less than offer me the truth about the manner in which I have presented the question. What ever his reply, it is infact the truth. If my horse responds in a good way, than I have presented my question with love and understanding. If he responds negatively, I know that I did not. He is not the one who misunderstood, I am the one who presented it wrong.

If you, in what ever "method" you use, see your horse as perfect, then I believe that your horse see's YOU as perfect. He is your mirror, your judge and jury, not I or anyone else.

And I have the parellis to thank for teaching me that one! which is why I no longer ride with a caveson. it prevents my horse from being my mirror, from providing me with valuable feedback about the lightness of my hands.

 

[Bay_Beasty]

.

Our horses are our mirror. A direct reflection of our selves. when I present my horse with a question, he can no less than offer me the truth about the manner in which I have presented the question. What ever his reply, it is infact the truth. If my horse responds in a good way, than I have presented my question with love and understanding. If he responds negatively, I know that I did not. He is not the one who misunderstood, I am the one who presented it wrong.

Like this idea!!

which is why I no longer ride with a caveson. it prevents my horse from being my mirror, from providing me with valuable feedback about the lightness of my hands.

Why and how??

 

[Tinypony]

Blimey TIC, I need to have a good read through that lot.
Just to say, don't read too much into the word persuade. I was persuaded that I didn't need 4 phases, metal clips or a "pop" just by watching and riding with other trainers who somehow managed without. That doesn't mean to say I wouldn't defend my space with whatever needed if I was in a dangerous situation, but somehow I don't seem to provoke the dangerous situations as much now as I used to... hmmm... The clips are gone and the "feel" remains, for the refined work. I have a video that I will link you to when it's finished, that shows this quite well.
Have you watched Mark Rashid work? He takes a horse and the owner tells him all the dangerous things it does to everyone. He just works away, and somehow the dangerous things don't happen, and the horse makes a change.
Oh yes, my horses are perfect, truly they are. They always want to be right, I just need to bear that in mind. Someone once said to me that horses are the dolphins of the earth, they were put here to teach mankind. They are as tolerant as dolphins as well maybe?

 

[Alyth]

IMO 4 phases is important - it's how you obtain lightness. By starting lighter than necessary and gradually increasing pressure until you get the result you want and then instantly quitting.....