Ask a Parelli student....no holds barred....you asked, I giveth.

horseaddict said:
I joined this forum specifically to say how much i admire TNC. Thank you so much for your dedication and beautiful attitude. You are a credit to the human race.
I am one of the regular savvy club members and have been following the system for 6years. During that time i have encountered mainly curiosity from people who were unfamiliar with my strange equipment (!) I have always answered questions and not ever been arrogant enough to insinuate that Parelli is the only way - that would be silly when my pony might expose my weaknesses on that day and prove that pride does indeed come before a fall!
I have followed this thread from the beginning and i am humbled by the open mindedness of the contributers. Thank you. I am sad to say that it is in contrast with some of the comments on the savvy club forum. But we are NOT all the same and i believe that thanks to TNC people realize that.
I will not be renewing my membership at the end of the year and will wait to see if anything changes in the organisation to change my mind. Shame i wont be able to attend courses as i have met some of my best friends this way and learnt so much. I will continue in my journey of learning and improving and having fun with my horses.
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WOW, THANK YOU!
I am crying, thank you!

I know this may sound odd, but I am a highly emotional person. I have spent my whole life learning to control my emotions. I also am far from brave. I am terrified of public speaking and having people watch me with my horses, especially showing. I freeze up. with my new job, i have had to work on speaking in a large group, and at least now i can actually speak. words easily flow from my fingertips as it does not require breathing to do so!

it is sad that there are those that have no problem shunning people or being elitists. It has been hard keeping my mouth shut over there at the moment. if you could only hear the screams on this side of the computer screen. i have to say i have NO desire to associate my self with people like that. first to be superior to traditionalists, and now against our selves? All I can do is shake my head and cry. A great program is about to realize itself into the naysayers accusations as ultimate proof of the truth, that they have been right all along. And I will no longer be able to argue with them. As i will no longer disagree. Shame for sure.

But it IS called "Parelli" natural horsemanship, so I guess he has the right to do with it as he so pleases. But I don't have to go along on the ride.

I have sent you a PM.

Good luck on your Journey on the outside, have a looksie for me, as that is where I will be too!:cool:
 
baymareb said:
Seriously? Why not? And what's the horse been doing for four years?

I don't mean to sound cold - I do understand fear after a fall but at some point, you have to make up your mind to either do something about it or get out of horses. I'm not sure what you expect Parelli to do for this girl but the best thing someone with some fears can do is get on a nice quiet horse and ride.
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She's been taking care of him and loving him for four years. She takes lessons on the ground with him when she has time and can afford it - remember, she works two jobs to keep this horse. There is a NH trainer in the area who she wants to have ride him - when she has $40/hour, minimum 2 hours).

She's single (with a boyfriend who's NOT into horses:(), no kids and 40 years old. She loves this horse more than anything - the boyfriend will go before the horse does :D. She's ridden my QH, but she was still scared. She doesn't care if she can NEVER ride him again - she loves him and he will never have another home. They have a relationship that's beautiful to see. He was a rescue horse, and i know that this horse knows she saved his life - he loves and trusts her totally.

I don't know if Parelli could help her, but it couldn't hurt. Maybe she'll ride him again, maybe she won't, but she'll never stop loving him and taking care of him.
 
tongue~n~cheek said:
WOW, THANK YOU!
I am crying, thank you!

I know this may sound odd, but I am a highly emotional person. I have spent my whole life learning to control my emotions. I also am far from brave. I am terrified of public speaking and having people watch me with my horses, especially showing. I freeze up. with my new job, i have had to work on speaking in a large group, and at least now i can actually speak. words easily flow from my fingertips as it does not require breathing to do so!

it is sad that there are those that have no problem shunning people or being elitists. It has been hard keeping my mouth shut over there at the moment. if you could only hear the screams on this side of the computer screen. i have to say i have NO desire to associate my self with people like that. first to be superior to traditionalists, and now against our selves? All I can do is shake my head and cry. A great program is about to realize itself into the naysayers accusations as ultimate proof of the truth, that they have been right all along. And I will no longer be able to argue with them. As i will no longer disagree. Shame for sure.

But it IS called "Parelli" natural horsemanship, so I guess he has the right to do with it as he so pleases. But I don't have to go along on the ride.

I have sent you a PM.

Good luck on your Journey on the outside, have a looksie for me, as that is where I will be too!:cool:
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TnC - Again, no one could say it better. I have never been a "blind" Parelli follower, but I have been a huge (for want of a better word) fan! I've gone to his tour stops for the past 6 years when they were close enough to me, I've seen with my own horse(s) how well the program works, and I truly, honestly believed that he wanted to teach people a better way. I still believe that to a point - I do believe that he loves horses and would never intentionally abuse one. However, as with most mortals, $$$$$ seem to have become all important.

I don't want to be an elitist either, and don't have the money to if I did :). I have a LOT of the Parelli materials and will continue to use it with my horse because it DOES work. I will also continue with the Savvy Club for now, as a 'regular' member; however, I have a feeling that it won't be long before there will be no "regular" membership, that we will have a choice between Silver and Gold and that will be it. Sadly, if that happens, I will no longer participate.
 
I think it is all too easy, when a “change” does not YET directly effect ones self, to point the finger and say ‘That sucks, too bad for YOU!” Yet the next “change” may just be too much for even YOU to swallow. There is no way they can make ‘everyone’ happy, but that does NOT mean every idea they have is a good one.

Yes, everything ‘evolves” it is part of nature. But not every aspect of evolution plays out as it was intended. Dinosaurs evolved, and even the mightiest hunter of them all is dead. Then the Woolly Mammoth and Saber toothed Tiger……DEAD. Many species and inventions “evolved” and are now DEAD. That is natural too. It’s called natural selection, and the biggest is not always the one to survive. Adaptability is the game of nature. And those that can’t adapt are culled out. Some may see this, and think that it is we the students that need to adapt. And some will. Until the day a change comes along, so BIG, that they too cannot adapt.

I think of these things throughout history, that were sooooo great, and sooooo useful for a period of time, and then became out dated and no longer useful or efficient enough to survive….

VHS, floppy disks, cassette tapes, vinyl records, horse drawn plough, Polaroid camera etc. Can you name which 3 of these are listed as part of the top 100, for inventions that changed the world? And yet, *poof* gone. Do we want that to happen to Parelli? (I know for many here the answer is yes, but not my point) NH will survive, as no other NH programs have been set as high on a pedestal as Pat and Linda. So high now, we can’t even reach them. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

As Pat likes to tell us, this stuff ‘is so old, it is new again” Why is that? Because it died, that’s why. It could not adapt, and nearly became a lost art. But it did survive in a handful of horsemen, who passed it down thru the generations, until it was ‘discovered’ again, and packaged for the masses.

Fact is, there are MANY great horsemen and women out there to learn from. Pat and Linda may have revolutionized the way many people can learn about horses, but have done very little themselves to change the actual art of horsemanship it self. Just as the telegraph paved the way for the telephone, which paved the way for the cel-phone. They too have paved the way for their students to eventually overshadow them. And now, a single cel phone can get you, gps, internet, camera, cam-corder, email, phone, and a small computer.

Something I have noticed already.... Those that feel mandatory membership is good, and feel that those who choose not to agree, mustn’t be as ‘dedicated’ as themselves, as THEY feel secure because they already are a regular member. Yet at the slightest mention of ‘what if” they do away with regular membership fees, and only leave the higher Silver or Gold options, the brakes were applied hard. Just because you have faith, doesn’t mean it won’t. And just because I fear it, doesn’t mean it will.

For those that don’t want to rock the boat, but still want to have lessons and clinics available, what if the paper work becomes so hard that no one wants to host a clinic anymore, and then YOU have to pay $2000 to become an ambassador to host it yourself. Do you think YOU will sign up to PAY for the PRIVILEDGE to work your tail off for FREE? Or would you become a Gold member so you don’t have to “pay”? What if you don’t do enough activities in the year to “earn’ your "free" annual continuing education to STAY an ambassador? Will you have the money to come up with the fee’s or will you have to resign your ambassadorship? You may not like the fact that some people question them, but are you willing to ask the hard questions when it finally does directly effect you? And how will you feel then if YOU are judged for doing so?

Maybe instead, the next LOGICAL step would be how can we co-exist with our neighbor, rather than exclude our neighbor. They’re mission, or so I thought, was to have NH become mainstream. I don’t see how segregation will accomplish that. Seems to me that they are trying to collect us all into their clutch to prevent any one from being part of ‘mainstream’ and then straying.

What do you have when you take the halter off? The TRUTH!

If you care about something, set it free. If it comes back, it was meant to be. If not, it never really belonged to you anyways.

Pat...Linda....When we were at "liberty" to do as we please, we naturally followed, why are you now trying to force it?

Just remember, while this ‘change’ may seem benign in the current light, it IS a vision of ‘things to come’ and the speculated direction of the way it is all heading. So again, you all go right ahead and swallow THIS pill, forgive ME for saying

”No Thanks, I’ll pass. I just want to learn about horses, without someone trying to put a price on my dedication.”

:cool:
 
baymareb said:
I don't mean to sound cold - I do understand fear after a fall but at some point, you have to make up your mind to either do something about it or get out of horses. I'm not sure what you expect Parelli to do for this girl but the best thing someone with some fears can do is get on a nice quiet horse and ride.
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Why should you 'get out of horses'? You make it sound like it's a bicycle or a car or some other inanimate object. Did it never occur to you that you can still have a relationship with a horse even though you don't ride it?
 
Golf Girl said:
Why should you 'get out of horses'? You make it sound like it's a bicycle or a car or some other inanimate object. Did it never occur to you that you can still have a relationship with a horse even though you don't ride it?
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Golf Girl - that was my point exactly. I don't ride mine a lot, but I play with him on the ground some and just enjoy grooming, hand grazing, hugging, talking to him. Spending "undemanding time" with him.

I learned that from John Lyons a long time ago. He told a story of a woman he was trying to help with a horse, and wasn't really getting anywhere, then one day she said "but John, do I have to ride him?" He said it stopped him in his tracks because he'd never thought of it that way. Now he says, it doesn't matter what you do with your horse as long as you enjoy it. If you never ride it in your life, as long as you're happy doing what you're doing, that's all that matters. And that is SO true!! :D:);):):D

Thanks for helping to make my point!
 
Aspenglow I remember reading about a lady who was disabled in a wheel chair and used NH (not sure if it was PNH but could of been) to work with her Fresians all from the ground. I found a video to watch after and it was magical. Just goes to show that riding isn't everything. I love spending time with my Beasts, and while my back has been bad I have not been able to ride and I have just spent hours and hours fussing Jim and doing a bit of ground work with him. and I loved every minute of it. I always think of riding as the perk, but to me, the whole aspect of the care, I love it all. I have always had the opinion that doing the other stuff, not the riding, is where the relationship is made.
 
bay_beasty said:
Aspenglow I remember reading about a lady who was disabled in a wheel chair and used NH (not sure if it was PNH but could of been) to work with her Fresians all from the ground. I found a video to watch after and it was magical. Just goes to show that riding isn't everything
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That would be Silke Vallentin - she practices PNH. She is amazing.
 
thanks guys. She is pretty awesome.... in fact its just incredible. only a little bit embarrassed I didn't know she did PNH. But hey, never mind, that was when I was a PNH basher, I have since changed :D . thanks for the link Pippinpie.
 
bay_beastie, I couldn't agree more! Silke is awesome and proves that anyone can to anything if they just want it bad enough!

I love just being around my horse too - don't have to ride. And there's absolutely nothing more comforting than crying into their neck when something bad happens! You're right, riding is a great perk, but just a tiny, tiny part of loving and enjoying a horse!
 
T-N-C thank you for this thread. It took me days to read it all but I did and it has been interesting and made me think more deeply about some aspects of Parelli that I haven't questioned before. Please keep posting. I love your well reasoned and obviously well informed opinions. :D
 
Who had the brilliant idea of having the BOSJ and a Parelli get-together at the NEC at the same event earlier this year? It was hilarious!

On the 1 side we have:
immaculate hair, manicure, make-up, clothes by Joules, Whittaker, etc. Cigarette optional.

On the other side we have:
hair resembling an explosion in a watch, no make-up, cowboy boots, Parelli-branded clothes and jeans, John Lennon-style round glasses optional.

Have I missed anything?
 
Broken_Arrow said:
Who had the brilliant idea of having the BOSJ and a Parelli get-together at the NEC at the same event earlier this year? It was hilarious!

On the 1 side we have:
immaculate hair, manicure, make-up, clothes by Joules, Whittaker, etc. Cigarette optional.

On the other side we have:
hair resembling an explosion in a watch, no make-up, cowboy boots, Parelli-branded clothes and jeans, John Lennon-style round glasses optional.

Have I missed anything?
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How about the Horsemanship.
If I remember rightly James Roberts was wearing a very nice pair of breeches and boots, and so were many of the instructors! :cool:
 
pippinpie said:
How about the Horsemanship.
If I remember rightly James Roberts was wearing a very nice pair of breeches and boots, and so were many of the instructors! :cool:
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Who? Assuming you are talking about men, that isn't something I would notice...

There were some people wandering around in stetsons. Not normal attire in Birmingham! Do Parellistas have unbreakable heads? Why don't they ever wear helmets?
 
Broken_Arrow, that's already been discussed, on either this or the Catwalk thread, and the answer is of course a lot of "Parellistas" wear safe headgear.
If you're part of the Parelli team there is a dress standard. The jeans are supposed to be clean and tidy, your boots are supposed to be clean and polished, the shirt is supposed to be buttoned properly. Some of those cowboy hats cost mega bucks of course... Oh, and I always wore makeup. My hair does often look like an explosion in a watch, it costs a lot of money to get it looking like that.
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naturalgoats said:
T-N-C thank you for this thread. It took me days to read it all but I did and it has been interesting and made me think more deeply about some aspects of Parelli that I haven't questioned before. Please keep posting. I love your well reasoned and obviously well informed opinions. :D
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Well thank you of course. I too, as well as many other parelli people have been questioning alot of stuff lately. parelli is not the "end all be all" of horsemanship. it is just ONE way to get there. Actually I have quite a few posts on the savvy club, of similar style and "info". I of course rein back on the "questioning" of the all mighty Pat, as I am now tired of hearing how we shouldn't question him. And there really isn't much for me say here at the moment. no questions to answer, and no particular subject to talk about that wont just come of as arrogant, wanting to just "hear my self talk".

HOWEVER, as this thread has opened my eyes and exposed me to a few new friends with some interesting info to look into, my journey is starting to take a vastly new direction. I myself am seriously questioning whether or not I will continue my parelli path WITH the organization. I see no reason to FUND something that I don't agree with. Something has just happened to me in my parelli journey this week, that I am waiting for a resolution on. It is BIG, especially to me. I was suppose to hear about it today. I didn't. So now, I am taking it directly to Pat and Linda this weekend. I dont' care if I have to stay until the lights go out to get my question answered. I will. I cannot share just yet, as I have the info on the savvy forum, and I am not ready to go all Jedi Night on everyone yet. But I found a bit of a flaw in the system that is NOT fair or right. I want an answer or I am outta there. If after all these years with them, if this is the way it will be, then I see no reason to continue. Anyways, hate to "tease' anyone. those that know me know how upset I am right now, and I surely feel I may have been punished for this thread, though I have no idea if this thread is the cause, so I cannot accuse anyone one yet of anything. I have a stack of stuff to hand Linda and Pat and the answer will reveal alot for me, and likely a great many students as well. I will share if it is not rectified to my satisfaction.

And THEN....the gloves will be OFF! For it will not be things the savvy forum will be able to handle.

I cannot thank all of you enough for your support, both here and on the savvy forum. I know it is alot to read, and few have the time, patience, or worry to read thru it all. And that is a shame. I have made a number of new friends across the globe. I have no Idea if pat and linda know about this thread, and if so, if it is me. But I think they should read it too.

If anyone reading this is going to Fresno this weekend, I will be there. I will be there on monday and that should significantly narrow your choices. By all means, bring up tongue~n~cheek if you want to them. I would love to sit back and listen to it!

Again thank you, and sorry for any "tease" here, I just don't want to spout off too soon.:cool:
 
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Broken_Arrow said:
Who? Assuming you are talking about men, that isn't something I would notice...

There were some people wandering around in stetsons. Not normal attire in Birmingham! Do Parellistas have unbreakable heads? Why don't they ever wear helmets?
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Well, being a american, I am used to plenty if not nearly all, western folks not wearing helmets. I also wasnt' there in england and have no idea what bosj is, so I can't comment. at least I am intelligent enough to know it was funny, what ever it was you were saying.

this thread has significant posts regarding helmets, hate to say this, but look through the thread if it is a question you really wanted answered.

I love the Parellista's. that is a new one. one that I think I will use;)
that or Parelli'icous!:cool:
 
I have to say this, if you are a Parelli student who wants to ask a question, but afraid to ask it on the savvy forum, go for it....I'm game.:cool:

SHOOT
 
Here you go,this is the parelli statement on helmets!
Hi …..,
Thank you for taking the time to write us. We understand your views and
concerns. As quoted by the faculty at our ranch:

“You are quite right – helmets are fabulous things and they save many lives. Tragically
though, people who ARE wearing helmets also die or suffer serious head injuries in accidents with horses.”

Our program is intended to address the safety problem at its root – which is
behavioral – rather than address the symptoms of it. Our message is about
developing the relationship with the horse, and the savvy level of the rider, so that unsafe behavior is addressed long before the rider gets on the horse - rather than allowing the unsafe situations to continue to occur and hope that the helmet, body protector, etc, will protect us from the consequences.

The reason you do not see our people wearing helmets is because we try to teach people that rather than be brave because they are wearing a helmet to protect them, they would be better off not riding until their horse is behaving safely.

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

We hope this helps,
From the Faculty, Parelli Centers

utter madness!
 
ok my 2 cents worth on a few of the questions asked :D
Ok... I have an actual question about Parelli (which I have never practiced). I understand that a lot of practitioners of Parelli learn the method from DVDs; apart from the potential to reach a wider audience, what are the benefits for a novice horse owner in using a DVD over having an actual instructor to help them? As a Parelli teacher, do you have concerns about those who have learned from the DVD not using the methods 'properly'? This is not meant to be inflammatory, it is a genuine question!
and
So my question - if a very key element of successfully using PNH requires a deep understanding of horse body language, why is it marketed at novices?
Surely a novice does not have the ability to react fast enough to small changes in body language and therefore is highly likely to confuse the horse and create stress.

My gut feel after studying PNH for a while was experienced horse peeps dont need it and novices dont have the knowledge to use it safely (horse not human safety).


I guess i shouldn't teach at primary school then as i am going to be doing my uni course by distance education mostly through the internet? there are lots of ways to get help these days all it takes is asking i find the dvd's very helpful, there are many videos on the website showing horses trying, you are encouraged to look at the videos available.

When the horses are being worked at liberty (I'm thinking particularly of the 2 Friesians that were worked by the lady in the electric wheelchair) why do they have their ears back all the time they are working around her, with their tails swishing... why do they look so angry all the time? I realise they're staying near her of their own volition, but I cannot work out why they do not work like relaxed, happy, ears-forward horses.

That was MY question - they always look really cross and tetchy, Ears back and tail swishing and a definite glint in their eyes which I read as 'Oh for Goodness' sake, go away and leave me alone. I'm sick of this!'

maybe they didn't like each other that day? who knows but they don't always have their ears pinned, i am guessing this is what you meant , here is a link to a youtube vid of the lady in question with her horses at liberty, ears flipping back then forward, but definately not pinned in anger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u0diNIq-Z0&feature=related

I would happily adopt Parelli, I just haven't seen any good stuff or benefit to myself or my horses. The only Parelli demo I've seen was performed by some very unhappy horses & they just did circus tricks.

naturally the shows are geared towards entertainment but the ideas behind each movement of the horse can help in many situations in every day life.

I am pretty sure that if he shut up, stopped swinging that damn rope and just talked quietly to her, he'd have a far better shot of getting her comfortable about that trailer. She does not look comfortable at all
Please explain why you would use this method rather than simply speaking calmly to her and encouraging her to investigate the trailer.

This is a biggy for me :( i am a parelli student yes, but would i copy his methods NO , i get really sick of people blaming Pat and or Linda for others mistakes, I didn't see them there holding a gun to the mans head, they didn't force him to do it that way, they give us a roadmap, yes we all get the same roadmap but we all interpret the directions differently and get to the end of our journey from a different path, it is easy to blame " parelli" for this, but you should lay the blame for any abuse at the hands of the person actually doing it :mad:

So to recap- PP kit- £120.
Local tack shop-£20.
Now I am sure there are instructors out there with a brain who do advise you to borrow a DVD/use current common bits and bobs to start with,but all the ones I have come into contact with insist ONLY the branded equipemtn will do,and of course,it can only be bought direct(unless you stalk Ebay for someone chucking it out).
Once again,to me this smacks of money grabbing not "spreading the good word" while covering costs.
again, this is easy, don't like it? DON'T BUY IT. i don't see people complaining about nike, or fender guitars, or expensive cars etc, only those wanting to whinge will do so, some just have to find something to complain about and will no matter what the subject.

4)This is the thing I have most issue with.
Why try to make Parelli methods the only ones people listen to?
Other methods enjoy equal (if not greater) sucess and are employed day in,day out by many more people around the world.
Any good horseman will understand the need to look at what people are doing,then think about it and decide if it is something usefull.
The attempted removing of that by Parelli instructors is a worry.

Do all instructors do this? have you proof? please don't tar every instructor with the same brush, not everyone is the same.

so there it is, my 2 cents worth :eek: sorry it is so long, but somethings really get my goat up, one of which is blaming innocents for things they haven't done, another is complaining about the cost of things you don't "need" either don't buy it and don't whinge or have fun buying a cheaper copy that can indeed be just as good quality and spend your savings on something else...:D
one last note though,
when confused about the actions from an instructor or student in one of these shows or on youtube etc, it is easy to percieve something as cruel but without good indepth knowledge about the horse yourself you shouldn't go judging too harshly, just start asking some questions till you are satisfied you understand why even if you don't agree with the methods ;)
 
So my question - if a very key element of successfully using PNH requires a deep understanding of horse body language, why is it marketed at novices?
Surely a novice does not have the ability to react fast enough to small changes in body language and therefore is highly likely to confuse the horse and create stress.
Click to expand...

I would like to answer this how I see it:

I have never seen any marketing that is aimed at novices! most of the marketing is aimed at any horse person thats wants a better relationship with their horse, that could be: novices who want to learn from scratch a method that they feel suits them, more experienced people who have a problem and would like to know how to achieve a better understanding of why their horse behaves in a certain way or people like me very experienced horse person who saw that there is more much more to learn in the way I could 'be' with my horses. I never though I could change that much that would have such a profound effect on them.
Parelli is for everyone, any level, but only if you are seeking/needing/wanting a change.
You say novices don't have the ability to start PNH, then who can help these people? Parelli is a home study program, supported with instructors and clinics, of course PNH starts with novices we are all novices at doing Parelli! Its a step by step program, I was just as inept as a complete beginner when I started 'wiggling' my rope, I was just as dopey and clumsy at using the carrots stick, if you had seen me starting you would think I was a novice too. :D
One of the important points Parelli try to get over to people is that they should 'Pick their Partner, not their poison' so many people have unsuitable horses especially novices, novices having the wrong horse is a disaster waiting to happen in anybodies book, you can't blame PNH for that. If you see people misusing the equipment or methods, it doesn't mean the program is c**p just the people using it in the name of PNH


My gut feel after studying PNH for a while was experienced horse peeps dont need it and novices dont have the knowledge to use it safely (horse not human safety).
Click to expand...
You tried it and it didn't suit you, thats OK
 
He's rich NOT because his product works but because people desperately want to BELIEVE that it does. Big difference. He's playing on the emotions of decent, ordinary people who are wanting to do right by their horses or who are struggling and out of their depth with a particular problem. He has packaged and glitzed up a beautiful dream, ie do everything that you see done on this cd (NB - he won't actually TELL you how to do it, just show you some end results and tell you how easy it is) and gullible people (me included a few years back) buy into it hoping that it will be a magic cure. It isn't. If all the horse owners who buy his over-priced stuff spent 23 hours a day drilling themselves and their horses, they too would have amazing results, whatever method they used. Remember the old adage: if something looks too good to be true, it ALWAYS is.
 
I think that saying Pick your partner not your poison is soooo good.Yes,so many novices do have the wrong horse and yes it is a disaster waiting to happen for both parties.
 
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