At a bit of a loss....

My friends horse used to be great to hack and then became dangerous rearing, spinning etc. Never did it in the school. He eventually went lame. He would also rear and buck when being turned out / brought in since she bought him but this was attributed to him being highly strung. Turns out that he had some form of cyst in his foot (can't remember the full details) but we think that hacking on the hard road / jarring etc was causing him pain.

My own horse has had random episodes of rearing, the last time it started for no reason both in the school and hacking for about a week and we think that he was objecting to the drop noseband, i had done it up slightly tighter as it had stretched and it never even occurred to me that it might be this - he has a very small mouth and huge tongue and i think by tightening up his noseband i removed his ability to get away from any pressure. since putting a cavesson on he hasn't even thought about it - some people say i am making excuses for him but it was out of character for him. the other time he did it we found two wolf teeth.

I think you do have to give them the benefit of the doubt and rule everything out systematically and not put yourself in danger. Hope you sort it out. I have also put him on Equifeast, cool calm and collected as well which worked wonders for my mare. x
 
I hope you unearth the answers to the problems. Few riders find rearing horses not frightening and you no doubt have excellent stickability and huge experience. However, and this is not meant in an upsetting or belittling way, if you have a family who care about you or depend on you, how are they going to cope if the horse falls on you and puts you in a wheelchair.
 
It may be pain, it may be behavioural - but once they have rearing as a go to you can guarantee they will nearly always do it when put under pressure
so you have a few options - work round her so she is never in pressure- with her her triggers are so many is this really possible?
Go for the good old fashioned pulling her over in a soft surface to see if it scares her out of it - risks injuring you and her and may not be effective
try a different rider to see if she responds differently to someone else
field ornament
I think all need to include a vet work up by an expert equine vet- being poorly muscled is normally an underlying sign of something else.
 
MoodyMare101 said:
Sidenote:
She DOES NOT scare me in any way (if she did then I probably wouldn't have persevered this long with her!) - what worries me is the fact that she could end up seriously hurting not only me but herself without intending to do it!!
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Ok, few horses have properly scared me over the years, but there have been some, generally those with no sense of self preservation. Plenty have made me seriously consider the sense in riding them (at least without finding the motivation behind their behaviour), and the ones that are generally the most worrying are mares that rear.

Not being scared of your horse is not necessarily a good thing. Do take stock of the possible consequences before you ride her again.

I'd be very interested to hear what your vet finds out.
 
Assuming behavioural, go back to basics.
You won't get her out of rearing under saddle if she still rears in hand.
I'd also get her on long reins to have the argument with you out of harms way and also so you don't unbalance her.

I've ridden a number of rearers in my time as have a reputation for sorting problem horses.
I'd be loath to advise much more specifically apart from keep the feet moving and keep the horse off balance as soon as you feel the napas it really depends on the horse; some you can spin, some you have draw reins or a chambon, some you can sort with a well timed smack, some you can sit and wait out and some you do need to turn over but that is extreme.
I'd be tempted to send her to someone well used to this sort of horse who has plenty of methods in the toolbox and can deal with it as safely as possible without resorting to beating it out of her (which never works).
 
blitznbobs said:
It needs rebacking - go back to the start and only go on to next phase when horse is secure in that phase. With an ingrained issue like this I'd be long reining her all over the place and wouldn't get on it she understands that forwards means forwards. Then I'd do tiny amounts of ridden work after long reining for her exercise and getting off again before the negative behaviour starts (i.e. Walk 1 20m circle) then loads of praise and finish. Once this is consistent slowly slowly change the ratio of long reining to ridden work. But it's going to take months and months to reach this stage... if it is behavioural. If it's pain this won't work either.
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Assuming a vet work up doesn't reveal anything this is the approach I'd take too. You'll need a lot patience. My sec D was a confirmed rearer when I got her, it was her go-to and she will still stand up on occasion out of the blue.

I did months of long reining after deciding it wasn't worth breaking my neck over. Then I took the long reins out with us when we progressed to hacking, so I could pop them on if we got in a tangle.

She's fine most of the time now... but I always need to pay attention to keeping her thinking forward.

Incidentally I tried draw reins, martingale etc etc first to see if I could stay in control and prevent the rear but it was so ingrained, it made no difference. I can understand your instructor making the suggestion because for a minor problem they'd give you the upper hand. But as you know, it's not a minor problem that you've got ;)
 
milliepops said:
Assuming a vet work up doesn't reveal anything this is the approach I'd take too. You'll need a lot patience. My sec D was a confirmed rearer when I got her, it was her go-to and she will still stand up on occasion out of the blue.

I did months of long reining after deciding it wasn't worth breaking my neck over. Then I took the long reins out with us when we progressed to hacking, so I could pop them on if we got in a tangle.

She's fine most of the time now... but I always need to pay attention to keeping her thinking forward.

Incidentally I tried draw reins, martingale etc etc first to see if I could stay in control and prevent the rear but it was so ingrained, it made no difference. I can understand your instructor making the suggestion because for a minor problem they'd give you the upper hand. But as you know, it's not a minor problem that you've got ;)
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This method fixed a rearer I used to work with and I do think it's worth trying, assuming you can rule out the rearing being a pain response. This horse was younger than the OPs and was fairly recently backed, yet he'd already turned to rearing as his go to when he didn't want to do something. He used to throw himself about all over the place and was seriously, seriously dangerous. So my boss took him back to basics and spent ages long reining him round the farm. If the horse started rearing or throwing a tantrum he would wait him out and just keep driving him forward. Now he's 6, jumping 1.20m and worth quite a lot of money. Hasn't reared in a long time and is generally a pleasure to ride. But it takes a lot of patience!
 
This is a difficult one, as it could be any number of things causing it. However, if it was my horse, and I had some money to throw at the problem. Firstly I'd get a hair analysis sent off to the natural medicine man on Facebook. Can help to identify allergies, and problems in the system and you get a "remedy" to help. Circa £35 but takes a month to come back. I've used it with great success.

I've seen rob Jackson the horseback vet get rave reviews, and he's not horrendously expensive either. I'd contact him and see if he was visiting my area within the next month. If he wasn't available, or too expensive, I've had great success with equine touch. The local lady I use is very good, and also cheap.

With those out of the way, and if not much pain was found, I'd look at getting a local (cheap/recommended) behaviourist in, and see what they think. Following on from that I'd either be sending to the vet, or someone like Jason Webb.

Not sure if you said if it was a mare, but if so getting ovaries scanned could be a good idea as well, as its not to expensive and can be done at home. I'd also be just lunging for a while, and keeping an eye on muscle development or lack of
 
Don't rule out pain.

I had a horse who was very similar; she would rear vertically and then as soon as her front feet touched the ground she would buck and spin. We have every thing looked at, teeth, back, saddle by numerous professionals (vets, osteos, saddle fitters). She would be fine and then would explode for no apparent reason. I had two big falls in 3 weeks, the second fall putting me in hospital. Whist I was deciding what to do next, I had the vet out to do my other horses teeth. We started chatting and I made a comment about her legs going unsteady when you pulled her tail to one side and her stumbling in the field. When he pressed her spine about 6 cm in front of the tail she collapsed. His face said all I needed to know. It was a spinal column injury and I had her PTS.
 
blitznbobs said:
I agree never saw a horse 'scared ' out of panic behaviour... or any other behaviour for that matter.
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I have a horse which someone pulled over to try and cure her. It did not. It just added to the pot of problems and damaged her hind end. I bought her at rock bottom price from the dealer they dumped her on once they had totally ruined her. Took me a long time to get her sound, a lot longer than fixing the rear (which was actually napping) did!
 
MoodyMare101 said:
Thanks for the suggestions guys!

I'm not 100% sure it is pain related though as she is worse (much much worse) when not ridden! She is strange because she only tends to do it out hacking, never really in the school which is what is making me think it could be behavioral.

The only way I will be able to tell what is going on is to get investigations done, which is what I am going to do!!
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OP I don't know why you would conclude that your mares behaviour is NOT pain related because it's worse when not ridden? My WB was so aggressive he threatened to kill me on the ground attacking with teeth, striking out and kicking. He would rear over my head, but ridden he was an angel for months only in the end did he start doing headstands. He was diagnosed with chronic sacro iliac dysfunction at Newmarket hence the reason I got a bargain Sandro Hit 5 year old.

My vet suggested every horse wants to please, they want an easy life. To be objecting and screaming so violently at their human they are definately telling you something is wrong, please fix it. My boy does the same today if he is hurting or has tweaked something he demonstrates dramatically. He is clever and sensitive enough to have never injured me in 5 years of ownership.
Please listen to you horse.
 
YasandCrystal said:
OP I don't know why you would conclude that your mares behaviour is NOT pain related because it's worse when not ridden? My WB was so aggressive he threatened to kill me on the ground attacking with teeth, striking out and kicking. He would rear over my head, but ridden he was an angel for months only in the end did he start doing headstands. He was diagnosed with chronic sacro iliac dysfunction at Newmarket hence the reason I got a bargain Sandro Hit 5 year old.

My vet suggested every horse wants to please, they want an easy life. To be objecting and screaming so violently at their human they are definately telling you something is wrong, please fix it. My boy does the same today if he is hurting or has tweaked something he demonstrates dramatically. He is clever and sensitive enough to have never injured me in 5 years of ownership.
Please listen to you horse.
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Agreed - on a separate note, Yasandcrystal, I have PM'd you
 
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