At my wit's end.... ulcers.

S

Stoxx

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 July 2007
Messages
3,027
Location
Essex
Visit site
Hi, what do you all feed your horses that have had ulcers or are prone to them?

Mine is on Dengie's Healthy Tummy and Allen & Page Calm & Condition. The C&C I'm happy with but I've just been doing a fair amount of research on oils and the Healthy Tummy is coated in soya oil which has a high level of omega 6 in it which is just not ideal.

Feed companies annoy the hell out of me - I wish they would state on their websites levels of starch and actual ingredients in the different feeds!

I'm at my wit's end with my horse who it seems can only be managed on Gastroguard and now my insurance has run out that is very very expensive. For the last couple months I have bought a product from overseas that claims to be similar to GG but my horse is returning to the unrideable mess he was a year ago when first diagnosed. He is being scoped again to check. For the record when on GG he has been fabulous... won his Area Festival this year etc etc.

(His day to day management has been addressed)

If anyone has any suggestions or info I would be most grateful! Thanks
 
I want to put mine on a diet suitable for ulcers (scoped clear but i'm not convinced she isn't suffering with some sort of acidity) and had been thinking of trying Dengie Healthy Tummy!
Will watch this with interest!
 
Personally wouldn't go with the C&C, its 13% starch and when you starch counting up... starch is no good for ulcers. I've heard alfalfa is a good buffer for ulcers but only if your horse can tolerate it, mine can't
 
My horse only has low grade ulcers, so I've had no where near the problems you say you have, but I have found pure feeds to suit him very well.
 
See this is why i'd been thinking of using the healthy tummy as its alfalfa. Mine is currently on alfa a oil but the healthy tummy is specifcally aimed at ulcers.
Confused now!
 
showjumpingfilly said:
I want to put mine on a diet suitable for ulcers (scoped clear but i'm not convinced she isn't suffering with some sort of acidity) and had been thinking of trying Dengie Healthy Tummy!
Will watch this with interest!
Click to expand...

One of mine scoped clear, he is on calm and condition, alfalfa pellets, he had linseed while still in proper work to help maintain condition, I gave a months course of Gastriaid then just on the day of a comp. He has really improved both temperament and performance, his appetite is better and his condition has also stayed more level. He gets adlib forage and I take some pellets to feed between phases at events.
 
ellie11987 said:
Personally wouldn't go with the C&C, its 13% starch and when you starch counting up... starch is no good for ulcers. I've heard alfalfa is a good buffer for ulcers but only if your horse can tolerate it, mine can't
Click to expand...

I know where you are coming from... I had discounted it due to the starch level, but my vet actually recommended it. He isn't a horse that eats up particularly well and he absolutely loves the C&C and eats anything mixed with it!!

I recently looked into another feed made by a different feed company that is supposedly suitable for horses prone to ulcers... it was something like 38% starch!!!

So in comparison the C&C would be low in starch.... but I know.. not ideal.

The Healthy Tummy is alfalfa.


I will look into Pure Feeds. Thanks Titch
 
be positive said:
One of mine scoped clear, he is on calm and condition, alfalfa pellets, he had linseed while still in proper work to help maintain condition, I gave a months course of Gastriaid then just on the day of a comp. He has really improved both temperament and performance, his appetite is better and his condition has also stayed more level. He gets adlib forage and I take some pellets to feed between phases at events.
Click to expand...

Be positive, did you find out levels of starch in the alfalfa pellets? Dengie have not provided the info on their site. These maybe worth me trying as he already has linseed.
 
I struggled for two years to get my TB round tried all the high calorie low grain feeds under the sun/ oil etc and never got him at a weight above a 3 day eventer. I suspected ulcers he was in a bad condition when I got him skinny, bad teeth feet etc and he was very stressy.

I changed his diet to Alfalfa, Oats, Supplement which balanced the diet, salt and brewers yeast and the change in him was very dramatic he rounded up so quickly I hadn't even finished tranisitioning him.

Since then he required minimal feeds over winter and was minimally covered and is round and lovely looking has stopped the insecurity/stressing and is no longer affected by grass and only getting a token feed for vits and mins (summer here).

I do have an alternative/ additional theory that possiably the vits and mins in the extruded feeds are avaiable so despite his diet being theorically balanced it possiably wasn't.

I have always feed straights in the past and never had a skinny TB (15+ horses) got a bit bamboozled by the science/marketing blah when I got him in such a neglected state.

___

Get lots of fibre (chaff/hay whatever) into them the more they chew the more they produce saliva which buffers stomach acid.

this is a good read:

http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Library/DontLetYourHorseDevelopanUlcer.htm
 
Last edited:
maccachic said:
I struggled for two years to get my TB round tried all the high calorie low grain feeds under the sun/ oil etc and never got him at a weight above a 3 day eventer. I suspected ulcers he was in a bad condition when I got him skinny, bad teeth feet etc and he was very stressy.

I changed his diet to Alfalfa, Oats, Supplement which balanced the diet, salt and brewers yeast and the change in him was very dramatic he rounded up so quickly I hadn't even finished tranisitioning him.

Since then he required minimal feeds over winter and was minimally covered and is round and lovely looking has stopped the insecurity/stressing and is no longer affected by grass and only getting a token feed for vits and mins (summer here).

I do have an alternative/ additional theory that possiably the vits and mins in the extruded feeds are avaiable so despite his diet being theorically balanced it possiably wasn't.

I have always feed straights in the past and never had a skinny TB (15+ horses) got a bit bamboozled by the science/marketing blah when I got him in such a neglected state.
Click to expand...

Thank for this. The insecurity/ stressing really struck a chord as my boy behaves exactly like this.
 
Stoxx said:
Thank you! I will look into everything you have suggested. Mine is on Feedmarks Ulcer Calm.

As for the ulcers being secondary... Well... I had my vet go over my horse with a fine tooth comb, lameness work up, xrays to check angles in relation to shoeing, general xrays to check nothing had changed since I bought him. Nothing, nada!! My vet who is a consultant orthopedic surgeon actually commented that he had finally found a dressage horse that was 100% sound behind!!! I really have tried to cover all angles.

Currently he has his hay in three places, a net hung up, a hay bar and then some on the floor.

He is a stressy horse, won't be turned out in certain fields (bolts), doesn't like to be left out too long (jumps the gate and comes in) and not easy to manage. Luckily for me my yard are fantastic and have him in a routine he seems to like. I think one of his problems is he is too well bred!!!!!
Click to expand...

He's lucky to have you! Apols if you've already discussed this, but if he's a stress head, have you considered going down the calmer route? It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg in that stressiness can help cause ulcers, then the pain makes them stressy and it all goes round in a circle.
 
Have a look at Simple Systems. They have dietary plan specifically for stressy Tb's and are helpful if you want to phone them.
You must take comfort knowing that your vet can't find anything else underlying.
 
philamena said:
He's lucky to have you! Apols if you've already discussed this, but if he's a stress head, have you considered going down the calmer route? It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg in that stressiness can help cause ulcers, then the pain makes them stressy and it all goes round in a circle.
Click to expand...

This is something that I'm really wondering about. Basically he shows absolutely no difference whatsoever on anything magnesium based. I did think he showed a difference on a calmer called Good as Gold which is L-Trytophan. Everything was going so well and he seems to have to have so many supplements that I gradually weaned him off it. Everything continued just fine for a while but now I seem to be having these issues again so I have just taken delivery of some more and he started back on it yesterday. But once the ulcers are there, they are there..... hmmmm.

Why oh why can't they talk!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
claracanter said:
Have a look at Simple Systems. They have dietary plan specifically for stressy Tb's and are helpful if you want to phone them.
You must take comfort knowing that your vet can't find anything else underlying.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

There have been lots of suggestions. I think I need to speak to some of the companies and then discuss all the available options with my vet (I'm sure he'll love that haha) before deciding.
 
Can totally sympathise as been going through the same with my boy!.I decided to change to the Healthy Tummy as he scoped for Ulcers,he got really wound up on it and had to change him onto the Mollichaff Calmer.Within 10 days he was back to being my horse again. I was told absolutely no cereals so has the Mollichaff Calmer,Baileys No14 Lo Cal Balancer and Unmolassed SpeediBeet. He is a Welsh Sec D and is a bit of an internal worrier so I have him on the Equine America So Kalm Plus and I have also added the Baileys Digest Pre and Probiotics. If they are worrier you really need to find something to help just keep them that be calmer or else as someone else says,it just becomes a vicious circle.They stress/worry which sets the Ulcers back off.
Mine is fed a mix of Hay and Haylage just because he gets bored with one and I always give him half a scoop of chaff before exercise.
He finished the GG last week and a few days before I started him on the Equine America Ulcer Gard Pellets-really wanted the U Gard Powder but cannot find it anywhere. Good Luck and hope you get sorted.
 
This is him before the change in diet (he was a bit more stressed than normal at this grazing so he was prob a bit lighter than normal and it was winter. He also had some compensation issues related to unbalanced feet)

picture.php


This was him last month on minimal feed:

picture.php
 
maccachic said:
This is him before the change in diet (he was a bit more stressed than normal at this grazing so he was prob a bit lighter than normal and it was winter. He also had some compensation issues related to unbalanced feet)


This was him last month on minimal feed:
Click to expand...

He looks so much better, you must be really relieved!!

My boy has never looked poor or lacked a good coat even when scoped with grade 3 ulcers, he does have a range of subtle signs as well as the silliness under saddle. I have noticed that it is harder to keep him warm this year though.
 
I have just had my horse scoped for the second time and I'm very fortunate they have disappeared with GG. I now have a completely different horse to the one I brought 6 months ago - thankfully for the better.
I can completely agree feed companies are a law onto themselves as they don't give all the information, I did loads of research and initially tried re-leve but it was far too much omph for my boy (he needs no help in that department) so more research and he is now on Topspec cool conditioning and their balancer and its perfect, he is putting on weight, his coat looks like a summer coat and the energy levels are great.
It is trial and error with a lot of research needed, I didn't go down the simple systems route as its not for me (just personal
 
Sorry if this has already been said but if you are thinking of feeding just alfalfa pellets you'll need to also use a balancer or general purpose supp as alfalfa pellets on own won't provide a complete diet
 
I have just had my horse scoped for the second time and I'm very fortunate they have disappeared with GG. I now have a completely different horse to the one I brought 6 months ago - thankfully for the better.
I can completely agree feed companies are a law onto themselves as they don't give all the information, I did loads of research and initially tried re-leve but it was far too much omph for my boy (he needs no help in that department) so more research and he is now on Topspec cool conditioning and their balancer and its perfect, he is putting on weight, his coat looks like a summer coat and the energy levels are great.
It is trial and error with a lot of research needed, I didn't go down the simple systems route as its not for me (just personal preference) and I found pure feeds too expensive for what it is.
Don't despair if in doubt keep it really simple and build from there, dengie have some fab info on their website too
 
xxRachelxx said:
Sorry if this has already been said but if you are thinking of feeding just alfalfa pellets you'll need to also use a balancer or general purpose supp as alfalfa pellets on own won't provide a complete diet
Click to expand...

Thanks, he is on Pink Powder, I would be happy to change if there is something better for him.
 
splash30 said:
I have just had my horse scoped for the second time and I'm very fortunate they have disappeared with GG. I now have a completely different horse to the one I brought 6 months ago - thankfully for the better.
I can completely agree feed companies are a law onto themselves as they don't give all the information, I did loads of research and initially tried re-leve but it was far too much omph for my boy (he needs no help in that department) so more research and he is now on Topspec cool conditioning and their balancer and its perfect, he is putting on weight, his coat looks like a summer coat and the energy levels are great.
It is trial and error with a lot of research needed, I didn't go down the simple systems route as its not for me (just personal preference) and I found pure feeds too expensive for what it is.
Don't despair if in doubt keep it really simple and build from there, dengie have some fab info on their website too
Click to expand...

Brilliant news!! Mine scoped clear after 3 months when he was down to a maintenance dose of GG. This is what I kept him on and then the insurance ran out so it's all down to me hence trying the other stuff.

You read my mind. I want to keep it as simple. Mine doesn't need much extra omph either! As the work increased I did think he needed something just to help a little but I think the C&C sorted that.
 
get a tub of Eguisn SLH to try....im very cynical of anything that claims to help as only gastroguard/omeprazole will heal but CS has been on just under a week and is MUCH happier, much more forward, much less snarly, much less reactive.
i spoke to the rep today and he said i can either do another tub of the SLH and then go on to the 250 for maintenance, or stay on a low dose of the SLH (reccomended for severe/chronic ulcers) at a lowered dose, indefinately, which is good news :)

feed wise he has saracen re-leve and linseed, plus an extra feed of alfa a oil at lunch, and another half scoop just before work to keep a fibre mat in his tummy, ad lib dry haylage and good grass.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
get a tub of Eguisn SLH to try....im very cynical of anything that claims to help as only gastroguard/omeprazole will heal but CS has been on just under a week and is MUCH happier, much more forward, much less snarly, much less reactive.
i spoke to the rep today and he said i can either do another tub of the SLH and then go on to the 250 for maintenance, or stay on a low dose of the SLH (reccomended for severe/chronic ulcers) at a lowered dose, indefinately, which is good news :)

feed wise he has saracen re-leve and linseed, plus an extra feed of alfa a oil at lunch, and another half scoop just before work to keep a fibre mat in his tummy, ad lib dry haylage and good grass.
Click to expand...

I will look that up thanks. I'm skeptical about all the supplements (even though I've tried most of them!!!) as is my vet and I do think what works for one won't necessarily work for another so it's a minefield but it's always good to have recommendations!

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. Sometimes it just helps to write it all down to make sense of it all!
 
I feed mine dried grass(can't tolerate alfalfa without going nuts!),speedibeet,ready mash solutions,linseed & top spec cool condition cubes. He's turned out all day. I swapped from haylage to hay & do the several haynets thing as advised by the vet. He will only eat one feed a day & has that at night,won't eat breakfast, but always has hay left in morning & a friend puts up another net in morning before I get there. He's out 24/7 in summer & I offer hay before I ride but he is just not a foody horse & often doesn't want it. His,several bouts, of ulcers where caused by long vets stays for surgery, confirmed by scope & cleared up on GG,I'm happy it was this that caused a problem but I did alter a few things with feed so I've never used long term supplements as it wasn't a management issue that caused them. Although he's hot to ride he's pretty laid back around the yard as long as he gets lots of turn out in the right company! Got very stroppy when separated from his lady friends last summer! Another reason that I'm not using maintenance supplements is because of his other issues I've had to stop competing & having lessons so he's travelling much less than normal & we're just pottering about hacking out & doing light schooling. Also I know when he's got ulcers now as he goes electric to ride & won't tolerate bring touched anywhere bar his head so I'm happy I'll know if he gets them again & then I can treat accordingly.
 
You've had lots of good information so just to echo another poster, my vet also recommended corn oil. One or two mugs a day (can't remember which :o ) and as much long stem fibre as possible. You said you've made changes to day to day management but just worth thinking about the long stem fibre - if your horse is out in the field at this time of year does he have hay then too?

Also presume you give a chaff based feed (preferably alfa) about half an hour before riding? This can make a huge difference particularly if splash ulcers are a problem.

Sorry if you know all this. :o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top