At my wits end with my pony. WWYD?

[jaffa2311]

She’s been ridden by a fair few professionals now, she’s had help in clinics from well known judges and professionals. She was backed by a brilliant professional. All my lessons have been with dressage coaches who aim for correct way of going.
There can’t be many ponies that have had the professional input that she has had. I have spent so much money on tuition and professional schooling in the hope it was something that could be ironed out. I do ride her but always felt I was letting her down but the more help I get, the more I realise there’s more to this.
It is clear now that it must be deeper than that.
I’m not saying she hasn’t improved sometimes with a great instructor but it is not consistent.
The one consistent thing is she always does it and has always done it. It is greatly exacerbated by the use of a Pelham or double hence my mention of bits in the first post.
Forgot to add regumate to the list of things tried too.

 

[SEL]

If you're feeling brave could you share a video?

It's a non performance work up with an experienced vet that you need. I'm not entirely sure you need a referral either - you could always ring the vet hospital of your choice and ask.

I've had two done on different horses. With my little cob I basically just said "she feels odd under saddle" and they blew through the insurance money in 48 hours finding a tonne of issues. You don't need an obvious lameness.

 

[Rowreach]

As a yearling she came in from the field with a wonky head/ bad neck once and minus a fly mask. It looked horrendous, I was hysterical and called an emergency vet out at the time. I thought she had sudden onset of wobblers. That’s how bad it was.
Her neck was swollen around the jaw but that was all they found. They did a strangles test and said they’d X-ray if it doesn’t resolve. I was convinced she’d broken it but it did resolve very fast so that was that.
I always wonder if it’s of any relevance.

Well that's a key piece of information there.

 

[abb123]

In that case I'd self-refer for a full work up and get x-rays of the neck in detail.

I hope you get to the bottom of it as it does sound like there is something else going on!

 

[Backtoblack]

I would say the head carriage is just her confirmation, just like some have naturally high head carriage.

 

[Birker2020]

I can understand your concern as there are some red flags that I would want investigating too. However, a lot of what you have described could just as easily be attributed to a young welsh cross pony not knowing or having the strength to use its body correctly.

You say that you had lessons for two years, but have you ever had a pro school her with an aim to getting her better in her self carriage?

Yes

 

[pistolpete]

Tim Beech Horseback vet?

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Neck x-rays definitely needs after reading it all. You can ring and demand xrays without the horse being lame, I’m surprised the vet didn’t recommend back x-rays with the sore back? I’d be changing vets.

 

[ester]

I’d be bypassing current bet and self referring to a decent equine hospital for work up and would absolutely want neck/back X-rays

 

[honetpot]

It sounds like its had enough. I have had a lot of ponies, and my friend spent a lot of money on made show/whp ponies, well known producers etc, to get the golden ticket, her daughter rides well, and when they are at home they are kept well.
The hardest pony is the one that knows its job. Her first buy would do the set show, and that was it, you could put any child on it, it looked the part, always got placed, but it did just enough. She bought young ponies, they would start off pretty OK, do well as novices, and then slide into habits. Showing is not a lot of fun for ponies, its a alot of hanging around, do the set show, some have trouble cantering on one rein and their back end never matchs the front end, some will turn off like the old pony, and some will pick up habits, to avoid contact, or just not work. It's a feast or famine, regumented life, I have a very nice Connemara that I sold just backed that has become, ring and people sour. Extra schooling, shoving etc just makes them more dead, or they are held together by a pro, and then not perform for less strong rider. Do less and something different is more effective IME.
I would turn it a way for winter and do something else, like PC, or box it up to hack through woods or hunt, I would imagine there is nothing wrong with it, its got a pony brain, certain breeds of horses seem to be able to stand repetition, ponies not so much. Its the sort that I would buy, hack out a lot, and then sell for PC. If you are going to keep it you need to target what you are doing, so what keeps the pony sweet is its main work, and only to dressage. show when it's important, and cut down the schooling to 15mins, then do something else, which become its reward, down time.
My own home bred pony just likes to hack, he is very well bred should have made a good SHP/WHP, but its just not the life for him.

 

[ester]

she’s already been turned away for a year

 

[dougpeg]

If she was mine I would xray poll, neck and back. If nothing showed up I would enjoy her for what she is and work within her limitations. She sounds like a nice pony.

 

[jaffa2311]

If she was mine I would xray poll, neck and back. If nothing showed up I would enjoy her for what she is and work within her limitations. She sounds like a nice pony.

Thank you, I agree.
Also she she really has the best personality of any horse I’ve ever encountered.
She’s so fun, loving and affectionate. Will run to you in the field no matter what, demands scratches. She’s got so much personality and I am completely besotted.
She most certainly is not treated as some showing machine and has not been shown extensively enough to be worn down by it. She’s the most beautiful mare, she just looks exquisite with a gorgeous head and it’s sad that she isn’t at her best showing everyone what a star she is (not that she cares as I said, she bloody loves living out in the field with her mates)
I’ll update with any answers

 

[Micky]

she’s already been turned away for a year

You turned her away and brought her back into showing/lessons..very boring for any equine, and setting for their muscles, way of going.
Hands can be hard, bits can be soft.
I’d also get her teeth looked at by a top edt if possible.
Hack her, hunt, pony club, anything but lessons and showing for the foreseeable. .
Get her booked for a referral or hospital. Come back to us with the results.

 

[jaffa2311]

You turned her away and brought her back into showing/lessons..very boring for any equine, and setting for their muscles, way of going.
Hands can be hard, bits can be soft.
I’d also get her teeth looked at by a top edt if possible.
Hack her, hunt, pony club, anything but lessons and showing for the foreseeable. .
Get her booked for a referral or hospital. Come back to us with the results.

I’ve brought her back in to…. Flatwork, yes. Is that not normal?! She has not been shown but yes been in the arena. How awful of me.
I wasn’t planning to take a horse out the field after 14 months and take her hunting for the first time!
I don’t want to keep repeating but we don’t have easy hacking and I am no way taking her on lanes after 14 months off work as it would not be safe. I feel safe in the arena, so that’s that. She is not a dobbin donkey, end of buckle type and never will be.
Also, she’s never jumped before, just polework clinics and I am much too old for pony club.
Thank you to the helpful responses, it was never a consideration of mine to ignore her issues and just kick on and keep her ridden, so I will ignore that advice.
Like I said before, I could have written a detailed essay of everything she’s ever done in her life but I did not.
She is also a head shaker when hacking, along with the spooking so it really isn’t some wonderful glorious relaxing event for her or the rider.

 

[Pinkvboots]

You turned her away and brought her back into showing/lessons..very boring for any equine, and setting for their muscles, way of going.
Hands can be hard, bits can be soft.
I’d also get her teeth looked at by a top edt if possible.
Hack her, hunt, pony club, anything but lessons and showing for the foreseeable. .
Get her booked for a referral or hospital. Come back to us with the results.

This is quite rude and unnecessary lots of horses just do showing and don't jump, hunt and do pony club and are quite happy.

The op knows there is probably something physical going on and is reaching out for some ideas and help, it's not like she hasn't tried to go down the referral route.

 

[Micky]

Just to the point.
None of us are experts.
Go to the experts first

 

[Rowreach]

I’ve brought her back in to…. Flatwork, yes. Is that not normal?! She has not been shown but yes been in the arena. How awful of me.
I wasn’t planning to take a horse out the field after 14 months and take her hunting for the first time!
I don’t want to keep repeating but we don’t have easy hacking and I am no way taking her on lanes after 14 months off work as it would not be safe. I feel safe in the arena, so that’s that. She is not a dobbin donkey, end of buckle type and never will be.
Also, she’s never jumped before, just polework clinics and I am much too old for pony club.
Thank you to the helpful responses, it was never a consideration of mine to ignore her issues and just kick on and keep her ridden, so I will ignore that advice.
Like I said before, I could have written a detailed essay of everything she’s ever done in her life but I did not.
She is also a head shaker when hacking, along with the spooking so it really isn’t some wonderful glorious relaxing event for her or the rider.

Previous neck trauma and headshaking? Does your current vet know all of this history? I'm beyond astounded that they won't refer her if they do. I don't mean to be harsh but I'd have had the xrays done right at the start, or very soon after the initial trauma

 

[Rowreach]

Just to the point.
None of us are experts.
Go to the experts first

Is this before or after the hacking hunting etc etc that you advised?

 

[honetpot]

I’ve brought her back in to…. Flatwork, yes. Is that not normal?! She has not been shown but yes been in the arena. How awful of me.
I wasn’t planning to take a horse out the field after 14 months and take her hunting for the first time!
I don’t want to keep repeating but we don’t have easy hacking and I am no way taking her on lanes after 14 months off work as it would not be safe. I feel safe in the arena, so that’s that. She is not a dobbin donkey, end of buckle type and never will be.
Also, she’s never jumped before, just polework clinics and I am much too old for pony club.
Thank you to the helpful responses, it was never a consideration of mine to ignore her issues and just kick on and keep her ridden, so I will ignore that advice.
Like I said before, I could have written a detailed essay of everything she’s ever done in her life but I did not.
She is also a head shaker when hacking, along with the spooking so it really isn’t some wonderful glorious relaxing event for her or the rider.

Not for a pony, really, flatwork is work, hacking can be fun, and with the right leader they soon build confidence. I never had a school, they would get fifteen mins perhaps in some random corner, pop a log, but got reasonable dressage scores and always went up the line on the ridden show. My sucess in ponies, is never do the same thing or hack the same route two days running, even if it just around a housing estate. Just because you stick to the basics, it doesn't mean the horse is a dobbin, most hunters do basic work outside an arena, and can do a fast half day easily, it takes less time to get a pony fit.
You want to do the same thing and so will often get the same result, by all means try the vet route, but I have had quite a few 'naughty' ponies who just need a different style of management. On the opposing side I had a TB who's safe place was a school, and hated hacking.

 

[Rowreach]

Not for a pony, really, flatwork is work, hacking can be fun, and with the right leader they soon build confidence. I never had a school, they would get fifteen mins perhaps in some random corner, pop a log, but got reasonable dressage scores and always went up the line on the ridden show. My sucess in ponies, is never do the same thing or hack the same route two days running, even if it just around a housing estate. Just because you stick to the basics, it doesn't mean the horse is a dobbin, most hunters do basic work outside an arena, and can do a fast half day easily, it takes less time to get a pony fit.
You want to do the same thing and so will often get the same result, by all means try the vet route, but I have had quite a few 'naughty' ponies who just need a different style of management. On the opposing side I had a TB who's safe place was a school, and hated hacking.

Have you actually read the posts about the pony's history?

 

[ycbm]

I'm astonished that any vet or anyone reading the thread thinks anything but neck x rays should be the first step for a horse with history of a neck injury and head shaking .

Jaffa I think you need to change your vet. Are there any vet hospitals near you?
.

 

[ycbm]

Jaffa if there are no vet hospitals that you can get to, you are quite within your rights to ring your existing vet and issue them an instruction to take a set of x rays of your horse's neck. If nothing is found then you will have to pay for them, and with my vets that would cost about £400. If something is found (and at the moment I'd take a bet on it) then you can put in an insurance claim for the x rays and subsequent treatment.
.

 

[Rowreach]

I'm astonished that anyone thinks anything but neck x rays should be the first step for a horse with history of a neck injury and head shaking .

Jaffa I think you need to change your vet. Are there any vet hospitals near you?
.

There are loads in the south/south east, spoilt for choice really.

 

[Birker2020]

Previous neck trauma and headshaking? Does your current vet know all of this history? I'm beyond astounded that they won't refer her if they do. I don't mean to be harsh but I'd have had the xrays done right at the start, or very soon after the initial trauma

That link between neck trauma and headshaking jumped out at me too.

 

[jaffa2311]

Ok I need to be much more forceful and ask to be referred then. I’d read so much about it before the last visit I wasn’t expecting there to be a case of them saying it isn’t necessary.

The cynic in me thought perhaps they wanted to keep my money going into their account rather than the referral hospital.

Erm so 7.5 years ago bit of a rusty recollection but she came in as a wonky donkey and I panicked and called the vet to come late evening on discovery. They basically did an examination/ neuro exam and weren’t concerned, said about inflammation at the neck and assumed caught in a fence due to absent fly mask. She was able to eat/drink etc.
They’d come out for spasmodic colic x 2 for her prior to that, which was easily dealt with by buscopan and thought I was overly anxious and told me to email the practice with concerns and they didn’t have X-ray machine with them then but if I REALLY felt it then they’d book me in but she was better the next day so that was that, I think.

 

[ycbm]

You don't need a referral.

I'm assured that in your area there are multiple vets with hospitals and unless they are a teaching hospital and referral only, then you can simply register as a client and take your horse there for a performance workup. If you have no transport, many offer a pick up service.
.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have known some horses over the years that presented with difficult problems that their owners tried and tried to solve and went down many routes with them - vets, physio, dentist, saddlers, bits,one even grew organic hay for the horse, faith healing, Reiki, Bowen, etc. etc. etc. If there was a possible solution, they tried it.

In the end it was what, at the time, an insignificant episode when a young horse. Something happened with apparently no ill effects but some time later, much later, it showed up with a physical problem, apparently unsolvable.

Obviously, I'm not saying it is with your horse, but I agree with everyone else, that she needs an investigations.

One of the above horses went to Avon Vale Vets where they had an osteopath who treated a horse while under anesthetic, not sedation. That one had pulled back when tied up and went over backwards as a youngster, got up and seemed OK. When broken to ride he started with a bucking problem and after many, many years of investigation it was an injury to his neck that caused the problem. After treatment he was in his owner's words "a normal horse."

But, I again agree with what others say, that if the problems don't resolve then enjoy the pony for what she is and what she is good at.

 

[jaffa2311]

Sorry but I feel like I’m being made out to either be lying or avoiding taking her now. I regret posting this as I now feel like I’m a shit horse owner on top of the rest of the major crap going on in my life (we won’t even go there).
I guess I was just looking for support and a genuine ‘what would you do?’ As I genuinely feel like I’ve tried my absolute best for her.
But it has somehow turned into an accusatory slamming of me and everything I have done.

I am aware there are hospitals in the area, I am perplexed as to why I am being accused of being a total moron. I also have transport of my own, again I didn’t feel the need to share this as it’s not relevant to this post.

Liphook website ‘For professional and ethical reasons, and in the best interest of your horse, pony or donkey, we are only able to accept animals that are referred by a veterinary surgeon. Horse owners who call us directly will be asked to discuss referral with their own veterinary surgeon. Once the decision to refer an animal has been taken, the referring veterinary surgeon should discuss the case with one of our clinicians and an initial plan of investigation’

I apologise to both my pony and the horse and hound forum for misunderstanding the referral centres pathway and believing my local vet had to refer me.

 

[Rowreach]

Sorry but I feel like I’m being made out to either be lying or avoiding taking her now. I regret posting this as I now feel like I’m a shit horse owner on top of the rest of the major crap going on in my life (we won’t even go there).
I guess I was just looking for support and a genuine ‘what would you do?’ As I genuinely feel like I’ve tried my absolute best for her.
But it has somehow turned into an accusatory slamming of me and everything I have done.

I am aware there are hospitals in the area, I am perplexed as to why I am being accused of being a total moron. I also have transport of my own, again I didn’t feel the need to share this as it’s not relevant to this post.

Liphook website ‘For professional and ethical reasons, and in the best interest of your horse, pony or donkey, we are only able to accept animals that are referred by a veterinary surgeon. Horse owners who call us directly will be asked to discuss referral with their own veterinary surgeon. Once the decision to refer an animal has been taken, the referring veterinary surgeon should discuss the case with one of our clinicians and an initial plan of investigation’

I apologise to both my pony and the horse and hound forum for misunderstanding the referral centres pathway and believing my local vet had to refer me.

I think you have had some very useful advice and I am sorry you are taking it this way.

I am more appalled by your vet and by the multiple professionals that have failed to look beyond the symptoms to seek a cause of your pony's problems, tbh.

Move forward, get the xrays.