At my wits end with nutty pony to travel

[Michen]

Long story short (there is a previous thread!) but pony came from Ireland in big transporter, picked up by me in my rear facing lorry at services and travelled fine.

He loads perfectly with no hesitation and several weeks ago I took him for a short drive and he absolutely lost the plot.

Since then I spent a good deal of time practising just having him stand on the lorry quietly. He started rearing and flinging legs over the breast bar so I sent my lorry for modification and have had an anti jump barrier fitted.

If I'm stood with him he will stand like a lamb. If I travel with him in the back he stand and travel like a lamb. Since my lorry returned I have just been working on him learning to stand on the lorry, haven't even switched the engine on. Today he was very good and stood quietly on the lorry with the partition across and just as I was about to go and take him off (was planning on doing this daily) he went completely beserk, ripped the fittings he was cross tied to off the wall (they broke before the bailer twine) reared with both front legs at the top of the sloping anti jump barrier and cut his fetlock though thankfully just minor.

He will stand there quietly if I tie a bucket of chaff up but the moment he's decided he's been on there long enough he just loses the plot and all hell breaks loose.

I've tried a mirror.

I suppose I can either boot him up to high heaven (don't want to use travel boots as worried about slippage), shut him in and walk away and let him go beserk or I can keep doing small abouts of time standing on there with a bucket of chaff tied to the top of the anti jump barrier (I can't leave him with a haynet as eh has ripped it down with his hooves and got stuck before) and try and build up the time he's on there.

I originally thought he was genuinely scared but now he just seems to absolutely kick off and work himself up into a state the moment that HE has decided he's stood on there long enough. If he's ever to go anywhere he's GOT to learn to stand on the lorry! He's so violent with it that he's torn the rubber skirting but beneath the partition by kicking it.

So very frustrating! I'm tempted to send him to a pro to sort out but reluctant for him to leave the yard and become unsettled. Any other suggestions in addition to last thread welcome. I have a new fitting where I can tie him down to stop him getting his head up to rear but he paws violently and I'm concerned he will get a leg over if and panic so cross tieing seemed safer.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Have you tied him in a similar but safe claustrophobia inducing place and if so what did he do?

 

[Michen]

Have you tied him in a similar but safe claustrophobia inducing place and if so what did he do?

I'm not really sure how to re create that? He's been in dark small feed room and been totally fine, just bloody nosy.

I assumed if it was claustrophobia he wouldn't go in and he would panic the moment he was left there but it seems to be that he gets bored and then kicks off and just works himself up into a total state.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Hang a rug or something in half the stable. Essentially the first step is to create the tantrum in a place he can safely be left to get on with it. So tie him up without hay and leave him to get bored! Once you win that battle go back to the lorry and he will be far less committed to having a carry on hopefully.

 

[DabDab]

I'm not sure exactly what your sloping anti jump thingy is, but if you can make the area above the breast bar basically solid then just leaving him loose in there with no partition might be worth a try? Probably moving is better than just left stood alone in a box. I drove my big lad to and from the field every day for just over 3 weeks (approx 150m) when he was 5, because although he never did anything particularly dramatic, he just wasn't quite getting over it travelling wise like I needed him to.

 

[Michen]

Mmm, I could hang on and tie him to the bars at the front of his stable (but with rug draped over them too). I suppose if he really felt like it he could get his legs through the bars. He's really quite inventive.

Perhaps a long drive to Scotland would do the trick are you in the market for a feral Connemara?

Hang a rug or something in half the stable. Essentially the first step is to create the tantrum in a place he can safely be left to get on with it. So tie him up without hay and leave him to get bored! Once you win that battle go back to the lorry and he will be far less committed to having a carry on hopefully.

 

[Fiona]

Is it at all possible to try him in a herringbone box to see if its the backwards facing bit he's objecting to....

Preferably a box without one of those sticky out tack lockers he could climb on top of.

Fiona

 

[Michen]

I looked in to that but it was going to be thousands.

The modification is a sloping metal bit that then has vertical narrow bars at the top so when he rears and puts his front legs on it they pretty much just slide off again.

The thing is he's got to learn to stand on the box, i don't want him to be the sort you have to unload straight away etc as I often go places on my own.

That's a good idea re field lol!

I'm not sure exactly what your sloping anti jump thingy is, but if you can make the area above the breast bar basically solid then just leaving him loose in there with no partition might be worth a try? Probably moving is better than just left stood alone in a box. I drove my big lad to and from the field every day for just over 3 weeks (approx 150m) when he was 5, because although he never did anything particularly dramatic, he just wasn't quite getting over it travelling wise like I needed him to.

 

[Michen]

Not really as the only one at the yard has a breast bar he would certainly get over and frankly I don't want to risk him trashing someone's lorry.

He travels very well with you in the back and balances absolutely fine, quieter than my last horse. I think if it was the backwards bit that was the problem he would be objecting straight away but he will stand quietly for a bit, until he's decided he's bored.

He has a very busy mind so that definitely doesn't help.

Is it at all possible to try him in a herringbone box to see if its the backwards facing bit he's objecting to....

Preferably a box without one of those sticky out tack lockers he could climb on top of.

Fiona

 

[DabDab]

I looked in to that but it was going to be thousands.

The modification is a sloping metal bit that then has vertical narrow bars at the top so when he rears and puts his front legs on it they pretty much just slide off again.

The thing is he's got to learn to stand on the box, i don't want him to be the sort you have to unload straight away etc as I often go places on my own.

That's a good idea re field lol!

Oh yeah, he's absolutely got to learn that, but if he will stand to be driven a short way then you can just gradually increase the amount of time stopped still at either end of the journey. All he's learning at the moment is that he goes on, stands about a bit, then if there's nothing much doing he thrashes about until you come and take him off.

If it's genuinely idiocy and not fear then you can either leave him there until he gets over himself (if you can bear it/risk it), or distract/trick him into behaving how you want long and frequently enough that it becomes habit.

 

[Fiona]

Crikey - he definitely sounds like a delinquent teenager, it must have been quite some tantrum to pull eyelets out of the wall

Has he always travelled alone with you, or have you tried with company?? Equine company I mean.

I always use half strand of baler twine to tie up with travelling (after out 11hh pony dived out backward under the breastbar one night at PC and the twine didn't break). If its the thicker haylage twine then even less than half would do.

I would practice standing tied up in a small dark area (as suggested above). I would definitely use travelling boots to save yourself further vets bills, and then take him out with a small safe travelling companion. Driving off as soon as they were both boxed.

If that fails, then sedalin or hobbles or both

Naughty horse

Fiona

 

[FfionWinnie]

I use my cattle trailer to train people like him. It's not high enough to rear in and there is no where to trap a leg and they cannot do any damage kicking either!

My only poorly behaved traveller is 17hh and does not fit in the stock trailer to be trained (in fact he can stand beside it and look over the top of it!). Hobbles have fixed him although I did not train him to the hobbles, someone else must have!

 

[Michen]

He is. He's such a cracking little horse but my god he is so opinionated and feisty.

I've always tried alone with me, there isn't really a neddy at the yard rock steady enough to risk with him. Not helped by the fact he's horrible to other horses lol!

I am making him sound terrible- he's not- but he is really hard work!

My other thought is taking the partition out, shutting the whole thing up and just leaving him be? It's a really roomy box and maybe then he'd see it like a stable...

Crikey - he definitely sounds like a delinquent teenager, it must have been quite some tantrum to pull eyelets out of the wall

Has he always travelled alone with you, or have you tried with company?? Equine company I mean.

I always use half strand of baler twine to tie up with travelling (after out 11hh pony dived out backward under the breastbar one night at PC and the twine didn't break). If its the thicker haylage twine then even less than half would do.

I would practice standing tied up in a small dark area (as suggested above). I would definitely use travelling boots to save yourself further vets bills, and then take him out with a small safe travelling companion. Driving off as soon as they were both boxed.

If that fails, then sedalin or hobbles or both

Naughty horse

Fiona

 

[Michen]

Ha literally just posted. I could in theory let him loose in the box and shut the whole thing up so it's basically like a stable (remove partition) but god knows what he would do when I opened the half door, probably jump out so he'd need to be secured some how.

I use my cattle trailer to train people like him. It's not high enough to rear in and there is no where to trap a leg and they cannot do any damage kicking either!

My only poorly behaved traveller is 17hh and does not fit in the stock trailer to be trained (in fact he can stand beside it and look over the top of it!). Hobbles have fixed him although I did not train him to the hobbles, someone else must have!

 

[Fiona]

Don't they travel foals and non halter broken youngstock loose?? Also other farm animals.

I'd definitely give removing the partition and not tieing up at all a try

We've a mare who won't go in a trailer with a partition (forward facing) but fine with partition in a herringbone lorry, so you never know.

Fiona

 

[Auslander]

What's he like tied up on the yard? If he's being a brat, he'll more than likely do the same anywhere, once he decides he's had enough. From your description, I suspect he's a bit anxious, and feels better when you're with him. He does need to learn that it's not ok to behave like that when something's bothering him though. I'm the least fluffy horse person ever, but I'd be reluctant to shut him in and leave him to it, as that's reinforcing that the box isn't a nice place to be.
I would be inclined to load him, give him a scratch, then unload him, every day for a week, then very gradually extend the time he's in there. Once he's standing quietly for a few minutes with you next to him, take a few steps away, then return, give him a scratch, and unload him. Gradually build up to being able to load him, leave the box yourself, and then return. Ideally, don't let him get to a point where he starts getting anxious, and if it happens, go back a step. Every time he gets wound up, he's building a new negative association with the box.

 

[ycbm]

. Please note the breast strap is heavy duty chain, the entire lorry has been reinforced with steel, one partition permanently fixed through roof and floor, the other quick-release bolted into place after horse is on board, and a sharp knife available to hand if required. There is also a lower rope to stop him lifting his knees. The wither rope is attached by 100mm carabiners to loops of blue rope tied through the partition, the chain to 100mm carabiners to welded d rings.

Trusted up like this, he was a lamb. Without, he would have punched out the windows and had already destroyed one tack locker, that's been rebuilt. There was a bar below the windows the same as the one above, to hold the head partitions. He ripped that off with his feet. He tried this out once and once he realised he couldn't escape, he settled. He did paw for a while, which I cured by shooting him with a water pistol while sitting in the cab.

 

[Michen]

He's can be a fidget on the yard and might wave a paw around if he's bored but I leave him tied up whilst I go off and do stuff no bother at all.

He is a highly strung little thing and it's hard sometimes to see what's fear and what's him being obnoxious.

He has improved to the extent I can now leave him and walk off etc but there's no way of telling when he's about to kick off so I have to get the timing exactly right!

I suppose I'm being a bit gloomy as B was a fantastic traveller and currently I can't see how I can ever trust this horse to go anywhere with

What's he like tied up on the yard? If he's being a brat, he'll more than likely do the same anywhere, once he decides he's had enough. From your description, I suspect he's a bit anxious, and feels better when you're with him. He does need to learn that it's not ok to behave like that when something's bothering him though. I'm the least fluffy horse person ever, but I'd be reluctant to shut him in and leave him to it, as that's reinforcing that the box isn't a nice place to be.
I would be inclined to load him, give him a scratch, then unload him, every day for a week, then very gradually extend the time he's in there. Once he's standing quietly for a few minutes with you next to him, take a few steps away, then return, give him a scratch, and unload him. Gradually build up to being able to load him, leave the box yourself, and then return. Ideally, don't let him get to a point where he starts getting anxious, and if it happens, go back a step. Every time he gets wound up, he's building a new negative association with the box.

 

[milliepops]

he sounds quite similar in temperament to Kira, an odd mix of assertive brattishness and genuine worry. When she wanted to get out of somewhere there was no stopping her, whichever jekyll/hyde hat she had on

Nothing useful to add, as she was claustrophobic in general so helping her get used to being enclosed helped no end. I was OK once we were moving as she had terrible sea legs so had to concentrate on staying upright rather than creating havoc, therefore I bundled her into the box and got going PRONTO :lol: once I hung about too long and she broke her rope and turned around *while shut in by the partition.... how?! She is super duper in the box now so I hope you find a way to cure him.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Does he have a haynet on the yard tho?

 

[Michen]

No never such things would be dangerous with him around!

Does he have a haynet on the yard tho?

 

[Michen]

Interesting maybe I'm going at the problem the wrong way trying to get him to stand on it not moving for longer than five minutes etc.

I think I'm going to pack him off to this local guy to work with him for a week. I am drained by the whole thing and for the sake of a couple of hundred quid (thank you boggle) maybe it'll give me peace of mind.

he sounds quite similar in temperament to Kira, an odd mix of assertive brattishness and genuine worry. When she wanted to get out of somewhere there was no stopping her, whichever jekyll/hyde hat she had on

Nothing useful to add, as she was claustrophobic in general so helping her get used to being enclosed helped no end. I was OK once we were moving as she had terrible sea legs so had to concentrate on staying upright rather than creating havoc, therefore I bundled her into the box and got going PRONTO :lol: once I hung about too long and she broke her rope and turned around *while shut in by the partition.... how?! She is super duper in the box now so I hope you find a way to cure him.

 

[FfionWinnie]

No never such things would be dangerous with him around!

How long do you leave him then? I would leave him by himself (spy on him I don't mean go home lol) and really provoke him to get annoyed perhaps leading friends past him or something. You need him to learn that getting annoyed gets him nowhere - in a safe environment...

 

[Michen]

Tied up on the yard? Maybe half an hour max. I did once leave him for quite a bit longer when I went off for a cup of tea and forgot I hadn't put him away lol! He's absolutely no bother standing on the yard he might jiggle around a bit if horses go by, tractor or whatnot but he doesn't rear or get angry or anything of the sort.

How long do you leave him then? I would leave him by himself (spy on him I don't mean go home lol) and really provoke him to get annoyed perhaps leading friends past him or something. You need him to learn that getting annoyed gets him nowhere - in a safe environment...

 

[FfionWinnie]

Find someone one with a cattle trailer without middle height vents once his shoes come off, and hire it to leave him in til he shuts up then lol. I've run out of other suggestions!

Or put something in with him that will absolutely not react and get him a lot of miles under his belt before you go it alone again.

I have a pony for that job as well (it's doing it for another nut job traveller at the moment!)

 

[fairyclare]

I haven't read all the replied but I would not hesitate to get the help in from Richard Maxwell, he has recently done some articles on horses going from travelling fine to loosing the plot and he has had some great results.
He helped me with one of mine, not travel related and it did really help us.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Yeah get Richard Maxwell and I'll come and watch. The man is a legend!

 

[Michen]

Yep I enquired. £400!! I just don't have that kind of money sitting around having just spent £600 having lorry modified.

 

[alainax]

I guessing you've done all the usually tests like getting the lorry checked over for something that's concerning him, spongy floor, dodgey suspension etc. Swapped drivers, if he settles better in a different lorry or even trailer? He doesn't have a sore back or hips etc making balancing tricky. That would rule a lot out. Could be learned behaviour and might take a bit for him to get used to that all is ok, if it is.

 

[Michen]

No, he travels perfectly with someone in the back with him.

i am not asking him to stand on a moving lorry at the moment I am merely asking him to stand quietly on it without kicking off when he feels he's had enough.

I guessing you've done all the usually tests like getting the lorry checked over for something that's concerning him, spongy floor, dodgey suspension etc. Swapped drivers seeing, if he settles better in a different lorry or even trailer? He doesn't have a sore back or hips etc making balancing tricky. That would rule a lot out. Could be learned behaviour and might take a bit for him to get used to that all is ok, if it is.