At what point do you accept that a horse just will not load

[Moonberry]

Hi All,

Having read the forum for quite a long time, and probably only posting once, I thought I'd ask all you highly experienced folks for your opinion, as I'm almost at my wits end with this one.

My sons 13 year old tb gelding is a gem, lovely to have around, lives in a herd with my 3 mares, just a very nice and easy individual. He had a lameness work up recently and as a result had his hocks medicated. Since having this done he's gone from strength to strength with his ridden work, really working nicely between prelim / novice dressage and showjumping and xc consistently clear forward and happy at 90. All sound great, but here's the thing......

Loading, is an absolute nightmare. We have through a lot of work and repetition got him loading at home (3.5t Renault van conversion), he'll wander in happily and eat his dinner, stand quietly on the box until someone comes and opens the partition to let him out, and travels absolutely beautifully when we do take him out. This has been accomplished with the help (and in some cases hinderance) of various pros. The trouble occurs when we need to come home again, it can take anywhere up to 3 hours to get him to load to come back home. He is the same on his own or if I take a pony out to keep him company. I am almost certain there is a separation anxiety element playing into this.

So, what are my options?

Sell the 3.5t box and get a trailer / bigger lorry? It could be that the box is what we doesn't like but then why does he travel so well? I could go through the whole selling / buying thing and get something different which he could still object to? I would also have to do tests for either of these options as passed my test in 1998 so missed out on the Grandfather rights.

Accept that actually he finds the whole thing way too stressful and just give up taking him out anywhere? At the moment any outing is plummeted into the depths of misery with the stress of tying to get him to load to come home anyway? This option would likely either require my son to sell him, not much market for a tb who refuses to go anywhere I wouldn't have thought, or give up on going out and about and just hacking from home and riding in our field which feels a pretty significant sacrifice for him.

Look for another pro who can work with him away from our yard, but how on earth do I make this work and get it to stick? Equivalent of a schooling livery type thing maybe?

Any other ideas? I would love to be able to get this resolved for them, he is a lovely horse and they make a great team. Rather longer than I intended, so well done anyone who has managed to read all the way through!

 

[rabatsa]

Perhaps he has more tension/pain after working and that is affecting his boxing to return home.

 

[Moonberry]

Perhaps he has more tension/pain after working and that is affecting his boxing to return home.

I wondered this as well, so have been trying taking him out for about 1/2 mile, unloading, a quick walk round and then trying to reload and he's the same, in fact last night my son ended up walking him home as it just wasn't happening after an hour and tempers were starting to fray!

Have also tried schooling him at home, enough that he's worked hard and then loading and he loads fine.

 

[paddi22]

have you tried having a someone you know is good with horses bring him somewhere in a different box (eg no portition/facing diagonal) and see if that makes a difference. just to rule out either your subconscious behaviour or the box?

 

[SOS]

This is assuming the horse has been checked for pain that may be causing him not to want to load….

How often are you taking him out? It needs to be very often and regular for loading to become to norm.

Have you tried a different size lorry etc? If not hire or borrow one to try before committing to buying, and try several times as sometimes when new becomes normal the behaviour reoccurs. If you have and he loads well with these then I’d explore this option but often with non loaders it’s regardless of the transport, as it’s much more psychological than that.

I had a mare that I bought in faith that she loaded well, from a competition dealer for good money. Within a few weeks the horse regressed and I found out from an ex groom it had always had issues but had been beaten to submission to get onto the boxes by the dealer. Any “trick” had already been tried and as in the horses eyes not loading led to beating which led to wanting to load even less the cycle was very hard to break.

I had a natural horseman out who gave me a lesson on how to load a horse with my mind rather than physical strength (he worked with the horse but these things are all in the owner/loader most of the time!). A lot of work and tears and repetition, taking her out several times a week for months, meant that she did become a fairly consistent loader. But there would still be the odd day where it would be a challenge. As I went everywhere alone it just became too much so I sold to someone who didn’t want to take her out and about.

Some small tips I learnt off the NH:
- If someone asks you if you think the horse will load you need the same response and mental attitude as you would have accepting a drink in the pub on a Friday night ‘Hell yes!’
- Never nag a moving horse, it’s the equivalent of going ‘are we there yet’ Over and over and eventually they will tell you to F off. Easier said than done when you’re worried that they might plant but as long as they are coming stay positive.
- Never pull a horse, you won’t win. You can move their head side to side or their feet but don’t confuse the situation. Just make doing the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard.

 

[Annagain]

I don't have any practical advice re loading but I think I'd beg borrow or steal a different lorry and /or trailer to see if he's better on those before investing in one. It could be a very expensive way of finding out it's not a problem with the lorry.

 

[Moonberry]

have you tried having a someone you know is good with horses bring him somewhere in a different box (eg no portition/facing diagonal) and see if that makes a difference. just to rule out either your subconscious behaviour or the box?

A kind friend has offered to bring her trailer over to us later this week to see if it makes a difference. Have also popped a post up on a local facebook group looking for a transporter who either uses a trailer or a 7.5t box to try a few options.

 

[Bernster]

Same here I got an IH person out and we worked though ground work, checking out the box to make sure that wasn’t causing an issue, and building up my skill and his confidence. It def improved things and I’ve learnt skills that I’ve used since with tricky loaders. Dually halter and the long lead rope comes in handy to this day.

 

[Sir barnaby]

Have you tried hacking to a safe place not too far away, then meeting your son and try loading him to bring him home, I did this with my young mare, I did it both ways sometimes hacked to a safe place and my friend met me and we brought her home, then took her same place another time in lorry, and rode back home, after a few of these trips she was fine to take out. Except for one time I took her for a lesson, then she refused to load, I had to get a friend to bring her field mate over and put him in lorry before my mare then she literally cantered in so yes it was very frustrating. Hope you find a way to overcome this.

 

[Moonberry]

This is assuming the horse has been checked for pain that may be causing him not to want to load….

How often are you taking him out? It needs to be very often and regular for loading to become to norm.

Have you tried a different size lorry etc? If not hire or borrow one to try before committing to buying, and try several times as sometimes when new becomes normal the behaviour reoccurs. If you have and he loads well with these then I’d explore this option but often with non loaders it’s regardless of the transport, as it’s much more psychological than that.

I had a mare that I bought in faith that she loaded well, from a competition dealer for good money. Within a few weeks the horse regressed and I found out from an ex groom it had always had issues but had been beaten to submission to get onto the boxes by the dealer. Any “trick” had already been tried and as in the horses eyes not loading led to beating which led to wanting to load even less the cycle was very hard to break.

I had a natural horseman out who gave me a lesson on how to load a horse with my mind rather than physical strength (he worked with the horse but these things are all in the owner/loader most of the time!). A lot of work and tears and repetition, taking her out several times a week for months, meant that she did become a fairly consistent loader. But there would still be the odd day where it would be a challenge. As I went everywhere alone it just became too much so I sold to someone who didn’t want to take her out and about.

Some small tips I learnt off the NH:
- If someone asks you if you think the horse will load you need the same response and mental attitude as you would have accepting a drink in the pub on a Friday night ‘Hell yes!’
- Never nag a moving horse, it’s the equivalent of going ‘are we there yet’ Over and over and eventually they will tell you to F off. Easier said than done when you’re worried that they might plant but as long as they are coming stay positive.
- Never pull a horse, you won’t win. You can move their head side to side or their feet but don’t confuse the situation. Just make doing the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard.

The frequency is definitely something to consider, I load him every day at home, but take him out less frequently, maybe once a fortnight. I know I need to do it more but the thought of being stuck for hours somewhere gives me the horrors! I also find myself starting to question if what I am asking of him is fair because it has to be upsetting for him to go through even though I'm not hitting him or physically hurting him.

I'm almost certain that it will be something to do with us and what we're doing that will be aggravating the situation and of course the longer it goes on the harder it is to keep that cool and calmness!

I love some of those quotes, the Friday night one in the pub particularly!

 

[Moonberry]

Have you tried hacking to a safe place not too far away, then meeting your son and try loading him to bring him home, I did this with my young mare, I did it both ways sometimes hacked to a safe place and my friend met me and we brought her home, then took her same place another time in lorry, and rode back home, after a few of these trips she was fine to take out. Except for one time I took her for a lesson, then she refused to load, I had to get a friend to bring her field mate over and put him in lorry before my mare then she literally cantered in so yes it was very frustrating. Hope you find a way to overcome this.

That's a really good idea, instead of driving him out from the yard. We do have a few places that would work to try this. Will add this one to the list!

 

[bonny]

How big is he ? I think some big horses travel much better and are easier to load in a big lorry, has he got plenty of headroom in your box ?

 

[Moonberry]

Same here I got an IH person out and we worked though ground work, checking out the box to make sure that wasn’t causing an issue, and building up my skill and his confidence. It def improved things and I’ve learnt skills that I’ve used since with tricky loaders. Dually halter and the long lead rope comes in handy to this day.

Sorry you've had the same problems, but good to hear it isn't just us, makes you feel like that sometimes doesn't it! We have had similar IH people out and that is what has got him loading at home, just can't replicate it away from home. I use a long line with him, although with his normal headcollar, can't use a dually with him as he reacts badly to it. Which is frustrating because they work brilliantly with the others!

 

[Moonberry]

I don't have any practical advice re loading but I think I'd beg borrow or steal a different lorry and /or trailer to see if he's better on those before investing in one. It could be a very expensive way of finding out it's not a problem with the lorry.

That's what I was hoping to do, given I definitely do not have unlimited funds (sadly).

 

[Moonberry]

How big is he ? I think some big horses travel much better and are easier to load in a big lorry, has he got plenty of headroom in your box ?

He's 16.2 and I do wonder this, he's got plenty of headroom inside the box but the entrance way / opening(if that makes sense) is not as high as I would like.

 

[Bernster]

Yes, mine was always trickier away from home. I built up gradually inc driving to the IH yard having a lesson and then working on loading him from there. It does get better I think but some horses will always be tricky and it’s a case of deciding if it’s something you’re prepared to accept!

 

[Roxylola]

I read something on Facebook recently about this. They were explaining that to the horse, he doesn't know we're done and loading to go home - his association with the box is that he got in, was taken away somewhere, worked, and going back in he thinks he's going to be taken elsewhere and worked again. I'll see if I can find the post - it was really good

 

[Moonberry]

It would make it easier if he wasn't such a lovely lovely horse to have around! I'm starting to question the morals of continuing on this loading journey with him when he's clearly so unhappy about it.

 

[Roxylola]

https://www.facebook.com/2236827099765094/posts/4193786050735846

 

[Moonberry]

I read something on Facebook recently about this. They were explaining that to the horse, he doesn't know we're done and loading to go home - his association with the box is that he got in, was taken away somewhere, worked, and going back in he thinks he's going to be taken elsewhere and worked again. I'll see if I can find the post - it was really good

That would be brilliant, I would be really interested to read this.

 

[HelenBack]

I think there are loads of great tips here but another thing I have tried in the past is to load the horse, go for a drive around the block and come straight back to the yard and then get the horse off again so it doesn't have to work and comes straight home. I have also combined this with loading the horse straight away again and giving him his feed on the lorry. It's a bit of a faff but it definitely helped when mine went through a sticky patch.

 

[Lady Jane]

I would get Richard Maxwell up to assist you

 

[Rowreach]

When I read the OP my immediate thought was that your horse is sore and finds travelling uncomfortable, but that perhaps wouldn't explain why he is happy to load and travel away from home, but not return, especially when you have tried working him/not working him and all the variables. However, I do wonder if he would be happier travelling herringbone, and I would certainly try him either in a trailer without a partition or in a 7.5 herringbone.

We used to travel a lot of mares and foals across Europe, and they went in big compartments and it was interesting to see how they all chose to stand across the box (I've never quite believed the research which claims horses prefer to travel backwards). Any horses I've known with hock problems have been much happier in larger boxes, standing crossways.

 

[Rowreach]

I think there are loads of great tips here but another thing I have tried in the past is to load the horse, go for a drive around the block and come straight back to the yard and then get the horse off again so it doesn't have to work and comes straight home. I have also combined this with loading the horse straight away again and giving him his feed on the lorry. It's a bit of a faff but it definitely helped when mine went through a sticky patch.

I've always done this with the tricky to load ones, just gone on a little road trip and straight home again.

 

[J&S]

Our NF pony would load really well to go out for events but was sticky getting back on. We realised that we were allowing her to graze after working and before getting back on the transport. Basically she did not want to leave this nice green treat! So all feed was left in the trailer/transport. Just a thought!

 

[Moonberry]

When I read the OP my immediate thought was that your horse is sore and finds travelling uncomfortable, but that perhaps wouldn't explain why he is happy to load and travel away from home, but not return, especially when you have tried working him/not working him and all the variables. However, I do wonder if he would be happier travelling herringbone, and I would certainly try him either in a trailer without a partition or in a 7.5 herringbone.

We used to travel a lot of mares and foals across Europe, and they went in big compartments and it was interesting to see how they all chose to stand across the box (I've never quite believed the research which claims horses prefer to travel backwards). Any horses I've known with hock problems have been much happier in larger boxes, standing crossways.

That's really interesting, thank you. On someones advice I tried him without the partition in our 3.5t box and it was awful, he was banging and kicking and just couldn't balance even at slow speed in a straight line, whereas he normally travels without a sound. I wonder if he would be different herringbone, just need to find someone with a big enough lorry to try it in!

We do often take him for little drives around the village, sometimes this does make him stickier to load at home the next time. Maybe I need to get the vet back again in case something is hurting.

 

[Wannabedressagequeen]

Same here I got an IH person out and we worked though ground work, checking out the box to make sure that wasn’t causing an issue, and building up my skill and his confidence. It def improved things and I’ve learnt skills that I’ve used since with tricky loaders. Dually halter and the long lead rope comes in handy to this day.

Once upon a time, this was me and my horse + he was a terrible traveller. He now loads himself whilst I stand at the bottom of the ramp and "point" and yesterday we travelled 4 hours - no bother. It's taken so much time and patience and a lot of help from a IH. I have a trailer and only have the front partition in and a back breach bar, even if travelling 2.

 

[Rowreach]

That's really interesting, thank you. On someones advice I tried him without the partition in our 3.5t box and it was awful, he was banging and kicking and just couldn't balance even at slow speed in a straight line, whereas he normally travels without a sound. I wonder if he would be different herringbone, just need to find someone with a big enough lorry to try it in!

We do often take him for little drives around the village, sometimes this does make him stickier to load at home the next time. Maybe I need to get the vet back again in case something is hurting.

The alarm bells for me are that he has had his hocks medicated. I've totally lost count of the number of times that either reluctance to load or travel have indicated a hock problem in the first instance, and then how many medicated horses show a reluctance to load or travel even if they appear to be sound when ridden or worked up. Travelling him in a way that he can choose how to position himself may be key.

 

[Sir barnaby]

I’ve never been in favour of travelling horses back woods, however a few weeks ago I went with a friend to pick up a new horse, she had never been in a trailer, never been tied up but had been handled she was 3yrs old, we emptied the trailer of everything, when we got there we parke with a wall either side and she walked in within 20mins with little fuss, we took off headcollar and did the doors up completely she travelled silently, when we were ready to unload we expected an explosion out of the trailer, we didn’t front unload because of this. We slowly dropped the ramp inside her new paddock and she walked off very carefully, however she had travelled rear facing all the way home by her choice, so goes to show how wrong I was that’s how she chose to travel so I am now open minded as to how the horse will travel best. Barney has only travelled in a 7.5 lorry or bigger, I can’t afford to run a lorry now so I’ve never gone anywhere that I can’t hack too, he’s blind in one eye so very reluctant to travel in a trailer.

 

[Identityincrisis]

I wouldn't give up until I'd had Richard Maxwell out, the guy is a genius