At what point do you accept that a horse just will not load

[SibeliusMB]

I've seen and had incredible success with groundwork. Have an expert out for some sessions to work with the horse, and with you. Good groundwork is just as much about teaching the human as it is the horse. Good luck, the horse sounds lovely!

 

[Birker2020]

Had exactly the same with my late horse who for the first seven years of owning her was a delight to load, she'd practically run you over loading if you weren't quick enough to get out of the way. Then one day I showed her some pet pigs at a show centre and that was that, she wouldn't load afterwards, it took 3/4 hr and from that point on she was very awkward, it would only take about ten to fifteen minutes usually although once it took about 2 hours.

She went to a Monty Roberts clinic as a demo horse but loaded onto the great big horsebox they supplied for the demo, nothing like my trailer. I was told she might be claustrophobic, she held her head really high when she was in the trailer because she was busy looking around and interested in what was going in but obviously when she travelled eating haynet it was normal position and not at all impeded by height (trailer is 7ft 2, she was 17.1hh.) At any rate she hadn't suddenly grown 2 inches at 14 years of age!

In the end she was more willing than not and most times she'd go in but she'd have periods that could last weeks where she played up to load. She would never have issues whilst travelling, even when my trailer lost a back wheel (a whole wheel and not a tyre) whilst taking her to the vet, I never heard a peep out of her! She would always load to come home, I think I could count on one hand the times she played up to come home. I used to travel her practically every weekend to the same jumping venue, and when she could no longer jump found a pub in a lovely hacking area and parked on their car park and that was literally every Sunday morning. But every now and then she would still play up to load. She would stand for hours tied outside the trailer to the back and fall asleep in between classes so she wasn't scared of the trailer.

In the end I used a chap called Grant Bazin https://www.grantbazin-thehorseman.co.uk/ and he came to the yard and gave me a hand, it turned out I was using the dually I'd been given by Kelly Marks ineffectively. He was great and got her loading on the end of the lunge line whilst I stood about five metres from her! I had a bit of help from a fellow livery who'd mastered Grant's techniques and she taught me the error of my ways, I was very grateful to her.

I would always find that the backing up the horse and then encouraging forwards movement worked best, it was a labour of love trying not to lose one's temper, especially when she'd stand planted with her front feet on the ramp, eyes half closed, ears to the side, and her lip drooping - hardly scared!

We tried with different things on the floor, straw and shavings, or just plain rubber mat. Same with different towing vehicles, I gave her feeds to encourage her on which seemed to help. I also placed a bit of thick rubber between the door frame and the top door to give about half an inch of additional ventilation and would always load her with the top door open which I then shut.

We never did get to the bottom of it but I reckon it was something to do with the pet pigs that planted some kind of fear into her.

 

[Moonberry]

I've seen and had incredible success with groundwork. Have an expert out for some sessions to work with the horse, and with you. Good groundwork is just as much about teaching the human as it is the horse. Good luck, the horse sounds lovely!

The groundwork is definitely what has worked for getting him loading at home, everything just falls apart when we move the location, I also suspect we are doing things subtly differently when out and about which doesn't help!

Thank you, he is a lovely lovely boy.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I bought a non loader in 2016 at a huge discounted price from what she was worth if she was a loader, took me nearly 4 hours to get her on my box. (and its one of my specialist subject is loading)
After 3 months of nearly every day ground work i had just about cracked it with slight hesitation to go home, by the time 6 months came round, she was self loading. She followed my plan, if i changed the plan later on, we still occasionally had hesitation on coming home, but just a couple of seconds at most.

OP, its totally possible, but get some hands on help to give you the tools to do this - and ensure its reputable help. Good luck x

 

[tatty_v]

I had a very similar problem to you. I think I’ve posted about it before so I’ll summarise the key points! This all assumes no pain/discomfort.

1. Groundwork in a Richard Maxwell halter and long line. He needs to respect and follow your instructions, you need to be able to move his feet wherever you want him to go. If he plants or refuses, back him up, change direction and walk across the ramp etc. Keep him moving and listening to you.

Make sure you approach with a positive mindset and a walk that has plenty of energy. I’ve helped various reluctant loaders and often the energy fizzles out long before they stop on the ramp. If the energy isn’t there then turn away and create it before attempting the ramp.

2. Make the trailer/box a good place to be. We have a bowl of tasty food and he gets several mouthfuls for loading (that’s once he’s loaded well, and is standing and tied. Never use food to tempt them on!) If you think it’s separation anxiety, consider a mirror. If it’s the return home that’s the problem then make sure it’s always a positive experience (ie you always go home (I’ve never been able to do a stay away, it would blow his mind!), he gets turnout at the other end so he can roll, have a bite of grass, be with his companions etc.)

3. Once he’s on, *take him straight back off again and reload*. This will go against every instinct in your body (which will be desperate to shut the ramp and go!) When we arrive anywhere, we unload and reload several times. People think we’re nuts but it really helps, perhaps both of us mentally! We do the same before leaving, and the same when we get home. We might load, unload, and reload 10+ times per outing. It becomes boring and just something

4. Practice in a safe space (we had the trailer in the school for several hours!)

5. Plan an outing to a yard where you have appropriate help at the other end. I went to the trainers yard who was helping me crack the loading, so I knew I would have help to reload to come home if it was an issue. That took a lot of mental pressure off me!

6. Once cracked, keep up the good habits, never get complacent. We’ve had my boy 7 years now and I never take an easy load for granted!

The above took us from a pony who wouldn’t load without a companion, who would pull away and trample anyone who tried, and who once had to be sedated and walked on hoof by hoof to come home from a lesson, to a happy chap who literally trots himself on now. It can be done!

I’ve got everything crossed you can get it cracked, I know just how frustrating it can be…

 

[Moonberry]

I bought a non loader in 2016 at a huge discounted price from what she was worth if she was a loader, took me nearly 4 hours to get her on my box. (and its one of my specialist subject is loading)
After 3 months of nearly every day ground work i had just about cracked it with slight hesitation to go home, by the time 6 months came round, she was self loading. She followed my plan, if i changed the plan later on, we still occasionally had hesitation on coming home, but just a couple of seconds at most.

OP, its totally possible, but get some hands on help to give you the tools to do this - and ensure its reputable help. Good luck x

Thanks for this, gives me hope we will get there. We've had a few different people to help with him, some very well known and some with better results than others!!?? I just cannot work out how to replicate all the home learning away from home, and then I get dragged into if what I am asking is morally ok. Think I've gone down a bit of a rabbit hole following all the modern pentathlon coverage!!

 

[Sprig]

What happens if you load at your yard, go for a drive, come back and then try and load again?

 

[Moonberry]

I had a very similar problem to you. I think I’ve posted about it before so I’ll summarise the key points! This all assumes no pain/discomfort.

1. Groundwork in a Richard Maxwell halter and long line. He needs to respect and follow your instructions, you need to be able to move his feet wherever you want him to go. If he plants or refuses, back him up, change direction and walk across the ramp etc. Keep him moving and listening to you.

Make sure you approach with a positive mindset and a walk that has plenty of energy. I’ve helped various reluctant loaders and often the energy fizzles out long before they stop on the ramp. If the energy isn’t there then turn away and create it before attempting the ramp.

2. Make the trailer/box a good place to be. We have a bowl of tasty food and he gets several mouthfuls for loading (that’s once he’s loaded well, and is standing and tied. Never use food to tempt them on!) If you think it’s separation anxiety, consider a mirror. If it’s the return home that’s the problem then make sure it’s always a positive experience (ie you always go home (I’ve never been able to do a stay away, it would blow his mind!), he gets turnout at the other end so he can roll, have a bite of grass, be with his companions etc.)

3. Once he’s on, *take him straight back off again and reload*. This will go against every instinct in your body (which will be desperate to shut the ramp and go!) When we arrive anywhere, we unload and reload several times. People think we’re nuts but it really helps, perhaps both of us mentally! We do the same before leaving, and the same when we get home. We might load, unload, and reload 10+ times per outing. It becomes boring and just something

4. Practice in a safe space (we had the trailer in the school for several hours!)

5. Plan an outing to a yard where you have appropriate help at the other end. I went to the trainers yard who was helping me crack the loading, so I knew I would have help to reload to come home if it was an issue. That took a lot of mental pressure off me!

6. Once cracked, keep up the good habits, never get complacent. We’ve had my boy 7 years now and I never take an easy load for granted!

The above took us from a pony who wouldn’t load without a companion, who would pull away and trample anyone who tried, and who once had to be sedated and walked on hoof by hoof to come home from a lesson, to a happy chap who literally trots himself on now. It can be done!

I’ve got everything crossed you can get it cracked, I know just how frustrating it can be…

Thank you! Some great points here, I'll read through and try some of them. The only thing we can't do is use any kind of pressure halter on him, he reacts badly and extremely! You are right about the taking off and reloading, the idea fills me with horror but I can absolutely see the benefit.

 

[Moonberry]

What happens if you load at your yard, go for a drive, come back and then try and load again?

I haven't tried this for a while but I remember him being more difficult to load after a "round trip"

 

[Birker2020]

Thank you! Some great points here, I'll read through and try The only thing we can't do is use any kind of pressure halter on him, he reacts badly and extremely! .

From a pyschological point of view you are bending to his terms and conditions.

e.g. a toddler who is told they cannot have the sweeties they want in the supermarket reacts badly and extremely by having an tantrum, but they cannot be allowed to learn this behaviour will let them get their own way. Easier said than done though I know.

 

[Moonberry]

From a pyschological point of view you are bending to his terms and conditions.

e.g. a toddler who is told they cannot have the sweeties they want in the supermarket reacts badly and extremely by having an tantrum, but they cannot be allowed to learn this behaviour will let them get their own way. Easier said than done though I know.

I do get that and normally I wouldn't, we have great results with the dually, for example, with our other horses. There is something in his history which means anything which adds pressure across the nose is not an option for him. Probably should have included that in my original post!

 

[Fransurrey]

Our NF pony would load really well to go out for events but was sticky getting back on. We realised that we were allowing her to graze after working and before getting back on the transport. Basically she did not want to leave this nice green treat! So all feed was left in the trailer/transport. Just a thought!

I've made that mistake too. Only twigged when I let him graze at home (was waiting for a friend to arrive with her horse and trailer, so we could travel in convoy) and he refused to get on. He'd been superb before that!

 

[cauda equina]

My old boy always loaded much more willingly if he'd had the chance to have a wee before coming home

 

[hollyandivy123]

I won once with a bad loader. ......my technique was boredom.

If you tried to fight you would loose, think vertical etc

To over come this I used a bridle, lunge line and a lot of sitting at the top of the lorry ramp with constant pressure, if it walked forward I kept the pressure up, but no fighting It wasn't a quick fix but I knew i had won when I went to clip the lunge line on, the beast took a deep breath and then walked on, after that just had to show the lunge line.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hi All,

Having read the forum for quite a long time, and probably only posting once, I thought I'd ask all you highly experienced folks for your opinion, as I'm almost at my wits end with this one.

My sons 13 year old tb gelding is a gem, lovely to have around, lives in a herd with my 3 mares, just a very nice and easy individual. He had a lameness work up recently and as a result had his hocks medicated. Since having this done he's gone from strength to strength with his ridden work, really working nicely between prelim / novice dressage and showjumping and xc consistently clear forward and happy at 90. All sound great, but here's the thing......

Loading, is an absolute nightmare. We have through a lot of work and repetition got him loading at home (3.5t Renault van conversion), he'll wander in happily and eat his dinner, stand quietly on the box until someone comes and opens the partition to let him out, and travels absolutely beautifully when we do take him out. This has been accomplished with the help (and in some cases hinderance) of various pros. The trouble occurs when we need to come home again, it can take anywhere up to 3 hours to get him to load to come back home. He is the same on his own or if I take a pony out to keep him company. I am almost certain there is a separation anxiety element playing into this.

So, what are my options?

Sell the 3.5t box and get a trailer / bigger lorry? It could be that the box is what we doesn't like but then why does he travel so well? I could go through the whole selling / buying thing and get something different which he could still object to? I would also have to do tests for either of these options as passed my test in 1998 so missed out on the Grandfather rights.

Accept that actually he finds the whole thing way too stressful and just give up taking him out anywhere? At the moment any outing is plummeted into the depths of misery with the stress of tying to get him to load to come home anyway? This option would likely either require my son to sell him, not much market for a tb who refuses to go anywhere I wouldn't have thought, or give up on going out and about and just hacking from home and riding in our field which feels a pretty significant sacrifice for him.

Look for another pro who can work with him away from our yard, but how on earth do I make this work and get it to stick? Equivalent of a schooling livery type thing maybe?

Any other ideas? I would love to be able to get this resolved for them, he is a lovely horse and they make a great team. Rather longer than I intended, so well done anyone who has managed to read all the way through!

I wonder if you give him a calmer for the going home, might help him.
Has anyone travelled in the lorry at home where he stands in case something is effecting him going in going home?

Or maybe a travel pony to go with him.
Have you tried hiring a horsebox for a one off to see if it is a personal thing with your lorry!
You could also try having something like haylage for the home journey and maybe the smell might encourage him to go in.

 

[Dasher66]

You say he will happily load and eat his dinner, so I would extend from here, building on what he knows.
load, unload, reload then feed.
load, unload, reload, move the box (in the yard), feed.
load, move the box, unload, reload feed.
load, drive box down the road, unload, reload, feed. Drive home.
Then go to a venue, load and give a small feed before coming home.
More than a bit of a fiddle but needn’t take too long.
Failing that I’d spend the money to get Richard Maxwell or Michael Peace in.

 

[AnShanDan]

I don't really have anything to add that's not been said but my own experience of not good loader is that a lot of it is in the mind of the human.
So, I do wonder if you are subconsciously putting him off away from home. I mean, not loading at home is bad and frustrating and annoying but at least you're not stuck miles away. Not loading to come home is my worst nightmare!! So, could you be communicating your fear to him?
Not sure what the answer is, but I also swear by Richard Maxwell's techniques. I have a mare who could be sticky to load, probably worse coming home too. I really tried to learn RM's methods and put them into practice with her. The difference is night and day.

 

[tatty_v]

Our NF pony would load really well to go out for events but was sticky getting back on. We realised that we were allowing her to graze after working and before getting back on the transport. Basically she did not want to leave this nice green treat! So all feed was left in the trailer/transport. Just a thought!

yes, this too! We have a haynet for him to munch when tied up and I try not to rush home after an event so he has time to unwind from whatever it is we have been doing, but no grazing as otherwise there is no incentive to go home!

 

[chaps89]

I would find someone who will work with you on loading away from home. Yes loading practice at home is often a good way to find the gaps and fix them but if you’re genuinely fine at home and not once out then you need someone who will come to you whilst you’re out. Unless you can re-create the issue by taking him around the block, unloading at home and then trying to re-load.
Possibly find an accommodating local venue, offer to pay to use their facilities but explain you just want to do loading practice and have an instructor meet you there.
Very often it is a gap in the foundation ground work that is not noticed most of the time but rears it’s head at times of stress/pressure. Fix that on the ground and you can fix the loading problem. Red-1 did a very good post on this lately.
If you’ve had help before and sometimes it worked sometimes it didn’t, why not re-visit what you did with the people where it worked, what did they do differently that might be the key to getting him on?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Thanks for this, gives me hope we will get there. We've had a few different people to help with him, some very well known and some with better results than others!!?? I just cannot work out how to replicate all the home learning away from home, and then I get dragged into if what I am asking is morally ok. Think I've gone down a bit of a rabbit hole following all the modern pentathlon coverage!!

Hi, any good specialist will not only give you the tools mentally and physically to get the results, they will usually try to be available to take a call the 1st few times you go out. If they cannot offer this, then you don't need their help.

 

[Moonberry]

You say he will happily load and eat his dinner, so I would extend from here, building on what he knows.
load, unload, reload then feed.
load, unload, reload, move the box (in the yard), feed.
load, move the box, unload, reload feed.
load, drive box down the road, unload, reload, feed. Drive home.
Then go to a venue, load and give a small feed before coming home.
More than a bit of a fiddle but needn’t take too long.
Failing that I’d spend the money to get Richard Maxwell or Michael Peace in.

I really like this as a program, thank you. We'll definitely give it a go. Will be interested to see how far along we get before an issue crops up. I'm really tempted to get Michael Peace out, if he would help us practise in different places.

 

[Moonberry]

Hi, any good specialist will not only give you the tools mentally and physically to get the results, they will usually try to be available to take a call the 1st few times you go out. If they cannot offer this, then you don't need their help.

Thank you. I will definitely bear these points in mind when looking for support. So many specialists out there it can be hard to find someone who is happy to explain and teach you the tools you need and then be available for ongoing support.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Thank you. I will definitely bear these points in mind when looking for support. So many specialists out there it can be hard to find someone who is happy to explain and teach you the tools you need and then be available for ongoing support.

What location are you, even roughly?

To be honest, you've had some good advice above, but part of it I'd be discounting - feed.
With an adult horse who will/wont go on when requested, the groundwork really needs to be firmly in place and short sessions every day to load and unload, pat, load and unload. then travel round block, unload, load and unload again.

My last troublesome got a little 'stuck' with the section of: arrive at event, unload, reload, unload, reload. Ok, you can have hay now routine. That took a fortnight+ of trips to get firmly programmed in.
Then the next sticking (literally) point was the next manoeuvre:
All as above, but one final unload and compete/train but then re-load. If she was sticky then, we thought about the groundwork, she reloaded and came off again (hard to do when handler might be going 'phew', its on, I'm heading home). But worth persevering with.
Handler needs the tools to cope and time put in over a period to reinforce the groundwork needed.

 

[Moonberry]

What location are you, even roughly?"

We are in Wiltshire, so South West

 

[Snow Falcon]

Sorry if been suggested before, I've skim read! Have you been out for a hack/ride without competing?

Maybe it's the mental exhaustion from competing that makes him difficult?

If you want, you'd be welcome to come to where I keep mine, go out on the forest for a ride to try that out.

If he doesn't load easily we'll have a hot drink and biscuits at the bottom of the ramp and chat. That could bore him up?.

I too have a 13yo son who rides so they could go and make themselves useful by poo picking.?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

We are in Wiltshire, so South West

Too far for me to assist, will head scratch for you tho x

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Jason Webb is also brilliant at sorting tricky things out. He is brilliant

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I don't have the patience for nonsense. My dartmoor used to be bad to load to come home so I clipped a lunge line to each side of the trailer, lined them up with the ramp, walked him in between them to the bottom of the ramp where he would just stand still and refuse to move - unless someone walked right behind them then he would shoot backwards - as the lunge lines were at full length someone could pick up both ends being far enough away from him he didn't shoot back and gradually come closer forming a barricade either side. A couple of times I had to borrow help to cross the lines and squeeze them up his bum but after a couple of times he just looked at the lines being lifted then walked in.

I've also blind folded plenty at work for the 3.5t trucks with small ramps. I wouldn't do it on the HGV unless the ramp was on a loading bay and almost flat. Other days I have got the really hard spikey broom out of the truck and poked it, bristles up, under their tail. No horse likes to sit on a hedgehog!

Sorry probably not the nicey nicely way everyone should load a horse but I have the patience of a rabid dinosaur at times and have never spent more than 5mins loading a horse.

 

[Moonberry]

Sorry if been suggested before, I've skim read! Have you been out for a hack/ride without competing?

Maybe it's the mental exhaustion from competing that makes him difficult?

If you want, you'd be welcome to come to where I keep mine, go out on the forest for a ride to try that out.

If he doesn't load easily we'll have a hot drink and biscuits at the bottom of the ramp and chat. That could bore him up?.

I too have a 13yo son who rides so they could go and make themselves useful by poo picking.?

That's really kind of you and would be lovely.

We have tried taking him out, unloading and then reloading, just having a gentle hack and also competing / harder xc session and it doesn't seem to make that much difference!

 

[Moonberry]

I don't have the patience for nonsense. My dartmoor used to be bad to load to come home so I clipped a lunge line to each side of the trailer, lined them up with the ramp, walked him in between them to the bottom of the ramp where he would just stand still and refuse to move - unless someone walked right behind them then he would shoot backwards - as the lunge lines were at full length someone could pick up both ends being far enough away from him he didn't shoot back and gradually come closer forming a barricade either side. A couple of times I had to borrow help to cross the lines and squeeze them up his bum but after a couple of times he just looked at the lines being lifted then walked in.

I've also blind folded plenty at work for the 3.5t trucks with small ramps. I wouldn't do it on the HGV unless the ramp was on a loading bay and almost flat. Other days I have got the really hard spikey broom out of the truck and poked it, bristles up, under their tail. No horse likes to sit on a hedgehog!

Sorry probably not the nicey nicely way everyone should load a horse but I have the patience of a rabid dinosaur at times and have never spent more than 5mins loading a horse.

The patience of a rabid dinosaur that's exactly how I feel with him on a bad day!! Believe me I have been tempted to shove him up the backside with something spiky before now, my welsh can be a madam and gets anything I happen to have to hand waved behind her and she scoots in. the only time I've tried lines and stuff behind him he's gone up progressively higher and higher so I haven't been keen to try again even though it is beyond tempting!!!

 

[Snow Falcon]

This is when small ponies are so much easier-link arms with fellow human round said wretched animal and shove it in!