Atrocious 3.5 ton horsebox designs

[Tiger tiger]

How many of you have had injuries to your horses or handlers caused by the terrible designs on the 3.5 ton horseboxes?
I nearly lost 2 extremely well travelled horses today because of a common trend in a horsebox I hired, where it had Stallion partition and no breastbar, the design was so badly thought out that the wheel arch was at the horses front, and I couldnt even open the grooms door unless i already had the 1st grooms door opened (which obviously would be putting the 1st loaded horse in great danger of rolling into the living)
The no breastbar meant that the horse nearest to the ramp, head and shoulders were able to turn causing the partition to flip over onto the 1st loaded horse while the second went over backwards meanwhile i eas trapped unable to get out.
This is obviously a clear demonstration of why these current designs are not being done with the horse's saftey in mind, the people buying them are clueless and put alot of trust into the builders, but no one is talking about all the terribly thought out 2 horseboxes there are out there, even the ones ive hired where i didnt have a problem all still had design faults that could have easily ended in tragedy and im not only very concerned about it, but sick and tired of scrolling endless adverts for the exact death boxes on offer to both hire and purchase.
The old Lambourn and Mercedes 2 horse boxes were amazing, they were safe, they were properly solid built with horses in mind by people who were horsey, thesedays every tom dick and harry are building them and then more tom dicks and Harry's are hiring them out completely unaware of what is actually safe.
I have seen everything from everyone advertising Stallion partitions as if they are a luxury item when all they are, are anxiety infusions, to no breastbar with no way out, to fixed breastbars straight into living, to over head top doors that rattle and slam if any wind blows let alone puts horses off loading, to ridiculously steep short ramps, to overly long ramps that are already bowing, and not one of them have had partitions that easily lock securely in place .
When are we going to go back to only using proper horseboxes and trailers?!
How many of you are using these hire companies or purchased a 3.5 ton lorry that your not quite happy with the design?
How many of you have seen, heard or had personal experience of these particular horsesboxes going wrong and causing minor, serious or fatal injuries?

 

[gallopingby]

I have a 3.95 Horsebox with a collapsible breast bar, side ramp and door into the living wide enough for a horse to get through should the need arise, built by an approved vehicle manufacturer. I agree some horseboxes are flimsy and l wouldn’t be using one l didnt think was safe. I’m not sure what you’re getting at Tiger, l’m sorry if you/your horses have had a fright. It always a good idea to practice loading and travelling beforehand. Some of the 3.5 / 4.5 boxes used by professionals are extremely stable and if there were frequent accidents the companies wouldn’t be using them. However l do agree there are also plenty manufacturers popping up who are doing van ‘conversions’ that are unsafe. Most of them are cost cutters and whilst they might look pretty a quick examination would prove otherwise. Before l downsized l visited a few companies and was surprised at the standard of work of one of them. The quality of the materials they were using was considerably lower than the others but the price was also substantially less.

 

[shortstuff99]

The issue also is 99% of 3.5t horseboxes can't carry 2 horses as that makes them overweight, yet everyone seems to do so......

 

[Red-1]

I am also sorry that you had an accident.

I chose a stallion partition as I have seen far too many accidents with breast bars. Breast bars are for forward facing animals, so they can brace when braking. I see no need for them in a rear facing box.

Mine is a 3.95 tonne box, uprated from 3.5. The rear door can be opened and a horse can safely exit that way through the grooms' compartment if necessary.

I once had an unruly 17.2hh youngster throw herself around alarmingly on the motorway round Birmingham. The partition held strong and the box was cosmetically dinked but held firm. Because it was a stallion partition, there was absolutely nothing for her to become caught on/over. She was contained within the compartment. We drove to the nearest exit safely to see what the issue was (rug had become displaced causing panic and then the panic itself caused panic!).

Even with a quick release breast bar, I would have been in danger as I would have had to pull over and release her immediately, on the motorway, has she gone over the bar and got caught fast.

It sounds as if lack of integrity in strength of the box was the issue in your case, rather than the stallion partition design per-se. I enter the box via the ramp as a rule. However, I double tie, so if I had to enter via the full height groom's door, the horse would not be able to enter the groom's compartment.

The ones I hate are the ones with a breast bar and a narrow rear external door. I believe on of the Fire Brigades was trying to ban those, as many horses had gone over the breast bar and then got caught fast in the narrow door, requiring to be cut out.

I always felt 3.5 tonne boxes were unsafe until I found the manufacturer of mine. It has been tested to withstand more force than is perhaps necessary. In fact, when tested against force within the horse compartment, it broke the DOT machine before the box failed.

The side partition is bolted into the ceiling top and bottom, both ends, so cannot rotate. They are reinforced so hold firm. I would perhaps contact the manufacturer to let them know if yours failed, so they can improve the design. As long as you stick to facts, there is nothing to prevent you warning others as to what happened to your horse, including naming the manufacturer.

I uprated mine to 3.95, but still only carry 1 horse. I did it so I can pack the kitchen sink plus 3 people. 3.5 tonne max is a tough ask for 2 horses.

 

[Grassy]

Surely you load the first horse, come into the other side & close the partition, then load the second horse? Why do you need to open the grooms door? Also if it’s a 3.5 it’s unlikely it have the payload for 2. Was the partition not fixed too & bottom?

 

[Red-1]

Surely you load the first horse, come into the other side & close the partition, then load the second horse? Why do you need to open the grooms door? Also if it’s a 3.5 it’s unlikely it have the payload for 2

I am also a bit confused about what happened. I too would load the 1st, shut the partition, load the 2nd, shut the ramp. I am always on the outside, as in by the ramp compared to the horse.

I am also confused as to how the lack of a breast bar allowed the horse to turn? I would think a horse can turn with a breast bar. I double tie to prevent turning. I use trailer ties (NOT elastic) and simply click on, removing the loading rope once both sides are attached. Even if a horse were to go bananas, I would be by the ramp so would have a safe exit.

The thing that sounds really off, and not operator driven, is the fact that a partition collapsed when a horse turned round. That is obviously wrong, a partition should be designed to take the weight of a struggling/panicking horse. It is that which sounds at fault, rather than it being a stallion box.

I think some go all out for weight rather than safety.

 

[Abacus]

I’ve only ever had an accident in a stallion box, never in one with breast bars. I do believe a breast bar is important for leaning on and stopping the horse from overbalancing forwards onto their face/head. Of course that means they have to be well enough made that the breast bar is high and solid enough, with V grills, to stop a horse trying to go over.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

A lot of the problem as I see it is that everyone wants the "convenience" of a nice little van which they can chuck their horses in; and some manufacturers are pandering to this "whim" and producing boxes that are just not thought out.

But the biggest danger IMO is the people who go and get a "van conversion" done - to suit them but which hasn't been thought out and just isn't safe - and then for whatever reason they sell them at a later date and they come onto the market. To me, this is the biggest danger.

 

[ycbm]

I do prefer a breast bar, but I like a full wall behind it to prevent any idea getting into the horse's head that they can get out. I've seen a hired van where that happened. If you slam to a halt by hitting something in front, there's a bounce back in the opposite direction that could smack the head and neck into the wall. Likewise, if you have stopped and someone drives into your rear fast enough, the horse will shoot forwards into the wall with no breast bar.

I don't in all honesty understand the desire for a door big enough to get the horse out the back. Lorries don't have them. Many trailers don't have them. And if your ramp can't be opened then the box is likely either on its side or so damaged it's a write off anyway and you might as well cut the wall out.
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[Pinkvboots]

The issue also is 99% of 3.5t horseboxes can't carry 2 horses as that makes them overweight, yet everyone seems to do so......

This sorry but with 2 horses it's overweight so in reality they are not really meant for 2 big horses

 

[Goldie's mum]

How many of you are using these hire companies or purchased a 3.5 ton lorry that your not quite happy with the design?
How many of you have seen, heard or had personal experience of these particular horsesboxes going wrong and causing minor, serious or fatal injuries?

Maybe you should contact the manufacturer and hirer, explaining exactly what happened and why it was caused by the design of the box?


Please take it as read that i am very sorry that you had a fright, when you read the next bit.

Last week I was moving cattle from a friend's farm to mine. We were using his loading bay, his handling gates etc and his trailer but they were my cows. I know him well; have known him for 20 years; he is a very good, experienced farmer. We have moved cows between our farms many times, buying them, borrowing a bull etc. Even so, before we started he asked me to check the equipment & asked was i happy with the hurdles & ramps and I chose the exact order of loading etc. This is normal because they were my cows so my responsibility. The buck stops with the animal owner. I was injured because with hindsight one of the pens was too wide, allowing animals to turn & kick out.
When you are working with big dangerous animals you check everything, yourself, -twice!

 

[exracehorse]

I bought an older Vauxhall Movanno with a breast bar. Typical set up. Grooms room behind. I looked at putting a stallion wall in but felt it would make it dark and uninviting. There are two boxes either side of the breast bar in groom area where you put your tack. I had a metal slope put in at an angle, then full metal grill up towards the ceiling. So horse can still lean on bar. Has enough room for head etc but can’t jump over.

 

[MissTyc]

All my horses prefer some sort of breast bar to hang their tired heads over and sway with the box, but I have a solid wall behind it and the bar can easily be dropped. Not that anything is "easy" in case of emergency. And no design is fool proof. I have big doors so could technically exit via the back, although I agree with ycbm that the occasions where that is required are probably quite limited in reality. Super handy for transporting furniture, however!

Mine was designed for strength. Builder was very honest about payload and the impact of building for strength. Builder said "might be safe enough to travel two sometimes, but definitely not legal", which was fair ... Safe "enough" isn't good enough and so I travel just the one, or two very littles, and consider uprating it every now and then until I remember I prefer not giving anyone else a lift anyway ....

I did have one freak accident, where a loading gate sheared off. A 1 inch diameter bolt, sheared away and the gate fell on a pony. The box withstood the resulting chaos without any real internal damage and the other pony was unscathed despite the injured one freaking out and kicking in all directions. It was a manufacturing fault and the horsebox builder drove 4 hours to come to my house to see what had happened, had the box fully repaired, and then dealt with the manufacturer themselves. It was a proper freak accident, sadly. Thankfully no real damage done. Horse healed fine and returned to loading and travelling very well.

 

[PeterNatt]

Tiger tiger! Who built this horse box and what chassis was it built on? Who did you hire it from? I am afraid that there are to many 'Chancers' building 3.5 ton horseboxes who sacrifice safety for the sake of a cheap build. If you buy cheap then this is what you get.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I simply can’t visualise how what you say happened, did happen in a stallion box . I can’t see it happening in the stallion boxes I am familiar with.

What make was it?

Also, as said, it was almost certainly illegally overloaded with two horses up anyway.

The wide grooms door is an emergency exit. Many a horse has got stuck and had to be cut out by the fire brigade in those horrible narrow groom’s doors. Not all of them have survived, either.

 

[ycbm]

The wide grooms door is an emergency exit. Many a horse has got stuck and had to be cut out by the fire brigade in those horrible narrow groom’s doors. Not all of them have survived, either.

If you are talking about horses climbing the partition and exiting through the back door and getting stuck in the doorway then I agree the door needs to be horse width.

But personally I would never have a barrier that can be got over, it's asking for trouble imo. And with a full wall you don't need a wide back door.

I can't actually imagine a situation where the ramp won't open which wouldn't also require the wall or roof cut open to release the horse.
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[Tiger tiger]

Maybe you should contact the manufacturer and hirer, explaining exactly what happened and why it was caused by the design of the box?


Please take it as read that i am very sorry that you had a fright, when you read the next bit.

Last week I was moving cattle from a friend's farm to mine. We were using his loading bay, his handling gates etc and his trailer but they were my cows. I know him well; have known him for 20 years; he is a very good, experienced farmer. We have moved cows between our farms many times, buying them, borrowing a bull etc. Even so, before we started he asked me to check the equipment & asked was i happy with the hurdles & ramps and I chose the exact order of loading etc. This is normal because they were my cows so my responsibility. The buck stops with the animal owner. I was injured because with hindsight one of the pens was too wide, allowing animals to turn & kick out.
When you are working with big dangerous animals you check everything, yourself, -twice!

Thankyou, I have spoken to hire company and sent the builders a lengthy message because I see exactly same design as a new build for sale yesterday it sent my blood cold tbh , i will also be speaking directly with the insurance company because someone needs to start being made responsible for the tin cans they are selling to unsuspecting innocent people.
Its so sad that so many people are playing with fire using them, I said today I will never use one again unless it was designed properly and i was just moving small ponies, that doesn't excuse the fact that everything i experienced yesterday only happened because of the boxes design, as my horse fell out you could see the entire box body flex imagine if he kicked the thin wall i dread to think...
I just hope people do their homework and read the countless accidents caused by them before hand. The problem is until it happens to somone they just think all those niggling doubts are silly and thats only if they actually have the experience to know what they should be prioritising,im here to say they are not silly doubts and just because 50 people didn't have a problem the one time it doesn't go right is the one time people need to take notice of, because as im sure your aware they are so easy experience in a split second because the saftey isnt in the same league as a proper coach built horsebox is

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Thankyou, I have spoken to hire company and sent the builders a lengthy message because I see exactly same design as a new build for sale yesterday it sent my blood cold tbh , i will also be speaking directly with the insurance company because someone needs to start being made responsible for the tin cans they are selling to unsuspecting innocent people.
Its so sad that so many people are playing with fire using them, I said today I will never use one again unless it was designed properly and i was just moving small ponies, that doesn't excuse the fact that everything i experienced yesterday only happened because of the boxes design, as my horse fell out you could see the entire box body flex imagine if he kicked the thin wall i dread to think...
I just hope people do their homework and read the countless accidents caused by them before hand. The problem is until it happens to somone they just think all those niggling doubts are silly and thats only if they actually have the experience to know what they should be prioritising,im here to say they are not silly doubts and just because 50 people didn't have a problem the one time it doesn't go right is the one time people need to take notice of, because as im sure your aware they are so easy experience in a split second because the saftey isnt in the same league as a proper coach built horsebox is

As has already been asked above, what is the maker of this allegedly unsafe box?

 

[Tiger tiger]

I have a 3.95 Horsebox with a collapsible breast bar, side ramp and door into the living wide enough for a horse to get through should the need arise, built by an approved vehicle manufacturer. I agree some horseboxes are flimsy and l wouldn’t be using one l didnt think was safe. I’m not sure what you’re getting at Tiger, l’m sorry if you/your horses have had a fright. It always a good idea to practice loading and travelling beforehand. Some of the 3.5 / 4.5 boxes used by professionals are extremely stable and if there were frequent accidents the companies wouldn’t be using them. However l do agree there are also plenty manufacturers popping up who are doing van ‘conversions’ that are unsafe. Most of them are cost cutters and whilst they might look pretty a quick examination would prove otherwise. Before l downsized l visited a few companies and was surprised at the standard of work of one of them. The quality of the materials they were using was considerably lower than the others but the price was also substantially less.

Im actually extremely experienced professional, my horses as mentioned in op are great loaders and travellers the only practice that needs to happen is other people who are buying these boxes from builders who appear as professional when in fact they dont have a clue.
What im getting at is awareness, because you didn't have a problem let me tell you when and if you ever are unfortunate to experience a problem with the majority of these boxes they are not little problems, they are life threatening huge death traps. You should check the incident report articles available online and look at the numbers, aswell as read the article professional coach builders wrote for a magazine which says people dont realise only 1 out of 5, 3.5 ton boxes new or second hand actually pass a full safety inspection.
Its scary, like i said before ive owned, bred, competed, imported and exported over 180 horses worldwide and many many boxes in between since 1970, iam not a newbie by any means, majority of these boxes are not safe and the designs are aiding the likely hood of having a serious accident no matter how they look, or how convenient they seem.
When you say you have collapsible breastbars, thats great but just look at the amount of boxes that dont, the box i hired was this latest design which does not have any breast bar, just a Stallion partition between horses and two grooms doors (which only opened if you already had the other door open this is a relatively new box btw) the problem is that the horses shoulder was able to turn with his head, because no breastbar he was tied tight but there was the coverd wheel arch at front legs end, this is what iam seeing alot of lately, but it's not uncommon to see them with fixed breast bars either, or able to climb or jump into living and thats all without knowing the truth about the thicknesses of the 4 walls and bulk head. Completely substandard never use one again unless it was only for small lightweight ponies and with everything id expect from a 7.5 ton

 

[Tiger tiger]

As has already been asked above, what is the maker of this allegedly unsafe box?

Im not opening myself up to court battles because i have already had a spent conviction for GBH and an even shorter temper. but im able to tell you simply scroll through the hundreds of box adverts and you can see for yourself

 

[ycbm]

I have a 3.5 after having had a trailer and a succession of 7.5t and I don't have a clue what you are on about. I don't think my 3.5 is less safe than any of the other horse transport I've used, except for its small size but that's why I wanted it. I livery in a very big centre and I see 3.5s coming and going in their hundreds every month and I've never seen a problem with any of them.

I'm very sorry you had such a bad accident but it sounds very like one that a friend of mine had with her horses in the back of a 7.5.

 

[Roxylola]

So, did you somehow end up shut in the horse area with the horses as this happened?
From years old experience of trailers with jockey doors that only opened from the outside I'm always careful to make sure I have an open exit when loading - not just an available one and it sounds like this shows how important that is.
I appreciate it would not have helped your horses though. Sounds like a horrid and unlucky freak incident

 

[Grassy]

I still don’t understand the thing about the horses shoulder being able to turn because there was no breast bar & why you would be exiting through the grooms door? I would load one horse, close the partition & then load the second horse & then close the ramp, what has the shoulder moving got to do with anything?! I’ve got a 3.5 stallion box & the doors at the back are full height & open into the grooms area at the back, not into the horse area, so away from the wheel arch.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I'm just a little skeptical about the sweeping statements above. You are very scathing OP about the 3.5t boxes, yet you state how much experience you have spanning many years. However, you were loading two horses into one of these boxes.

I've yet to meet anyone with a grain of sense who would load 2 horses into an average 3.5, particularly any box that is so short built that it has wheel arches within the animal area.

 

[Tiger tiger]

I have a 3.5 after having had a trailer and a succession of 7.5t and I don't have a clue what you are on about. I don't think my 3.5 is less safe than any of the other horse transport I've used, except for its small size but that's why I wanted it. I livery in a very big centre and I see 3.5s coming and going in their hundreds every month and I've never seen a problem with any of them.

I'm very sorry you had such a bad accident but it sounds very like one that a friend of mine had with her horses in the back of a 7.5.

Ok you go on believing there isn't a serious problem with them, its not on my head, because I have hopefully clearly relayed what happened if you cant wrap your head around the seriousness of it because of the design its on you.
The difference in saftey between a coach built horsebox and a 3.5 ton is tremendous just starting with the thickness of the walls , just because you have no experience with them going wrong or causing harm just shows you've been lucky, but let me tell you that when somthing goes wrong with one it isnt a small issue, its life threatening.
The issue your friend had with a normal box could have been any number of reasons none of which will be related to what i have tried my best to describe because it was entirely down to the design only found on the 3.5 ton boxes, i have AGAIN tried to describe.
I have lots of videos taken after the horses were checked over showing exactly what happened, where and what was the problems including the grooms double doors not opening because of the fcked up design.
Its a design that is being sold currently and im simply telling people that.
You obviously are completely out of touch or dont have access to google search, because if you did youd know that nearly all accidents of this nature are equally split between trailers and 3.5 ton boxes only a few REPORTED AND ATTENDED incidents each year are to herringbone boxes or trailers, and out of ALL of those incidents 75% are happening while being loaded or unloaded or sat still.
I really dont know what you think you are arguing about and what your getting out of it tbh because the horses welfare should come 1st, if somones telling you that x y z happened because of x y z you should be grateful for the information and retain it, not try and belittle the problem because you are a livery on a yard and only see your horse twice a day, some of us have been in this for a very long time and know we are always still learning

 

[Tiger tiger]

I still don’t understand the thing about the horses shoulder being able to turn because there was no breast bar & why you would be exiting through the grooms door? I would load one horse, close the partition & then load the second horse & then close the ramp, what has the shoulder moving got to do with anything?! I’ve got a 3.5 stallion box & the doors at the back are full height & open into the grooms area at the back, not into the horse area, so away from the wheel arch.

So you have no concept of the design im talking about then so why comment

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Ok you go on believing there isn't a serious problem with them, its not on my head, because I have hopefully clearly relayed what happened if you cant wrap your head around the seriousness of it because of the design its on you.
The difference in saftey between a coach built horsebox and a 3.5 ton is tremendous just starting with the thickness of the walls , just because you have no experience with them going wrong or causing harm just shows you've been lucky, but let me tell you that when somthing goes wrong with one it isnt a small issue, its life threatening.
The issue your friend had with a normal box could have been any number of reasons none of which will be related to what i have tried my best to describe because it was entirely down to the design only found on the 3.5 ton boxes, i have AGAIN tried to describe.
I have lots of videos taken after the horses were checked over showing exactly what happened, where and what was the problems including the grooms double doors not opening because of the fcked up design.
Its a design that is being sold currently and im simply telling people that.
You obviously are completely out of touch or dont have access to google search, because if you did youd know that nearly all accidents of this nature are equally split between trailers and 3.5 ton boxes only a few REPORTED AND ATTENDED incidents each year are to herringbone boxes or trailers, and out of ALL of those incidents 75% are happening while being loaded or unloaded or sat still.
I really dont know what you think you are arguing about and what your getting out of it tbh because the horses welfare should come 1st, if somones telling you that x y z happened because of x y z you should be grateful for the information and retain it, not try and belittle the problem because you are a livery on a yard and only see your horse twice a day, some of us have been in this for a very long time and know we are always still learning

There is absolutely no need to start ranting. Have you joined the forum for a fight?
You sound like you have a few anger management issues tbh. Sweeping statements like this are not thought out at all, try better.

Yes, before you take a pop at me too, I'm rather aware of equine transport, having transported across continents for over 2 decades in the last century and still travelling equines to date. Driven everything from 40ft rigs to 3.5, like a few others on here.

You had a bad experience, made the company aware, now making this thread into 'all 3,5 are dangerous', which actually is not the case.

 

[Tiger tiger]

So, did you somehow end up shut in the horse area with the horses as this happened?
From years old experience of trailers with jockey doors that only opened from the outside I'm always careful to make sure I have an open exit when loading - not just an available one and it sounds like this shows how important that is.
I appreciate it would not have helped your horses though. Sounds like a horrid and unlucky freak incident

No, the ramp was open still i had tied him up short he was 2nd to load the only safe way out was through the grooms door going into the living, the design has two grooms exit doors, one for each partition. However in order to open the 2nd door nearest to the ramp i was in, you had to have already opened the 1st horses grooms door which meant the 1st horse could just barge into the living, while you would still be finishing up the 2nd. The wheel arches were directly next to each grooms doors next to horses front legs and where the tie rings are, the only place you can stand is by the grooms door because the ramp opening is next to the horses shoulder and legs and wheel arches preventing you from standing to tie where you normally would if a ramp was positioned furtuer back like normal preventing both you and horse falling out.
The horse naturally wanted to follow me and because the design meant there's no breast bar there wasn't any where for me to go other than back out the ramp,the breast bar normally prevents a horse moving his shoulder and neck near to tie ring, but because of the design he was able to move himself in ways a breast bar would stop and i would have normally left out living. There wasn't anywhere to go for me, and despite him being tied as short as possible he was able to twist trying to follow me out the ramp.

 

[Grassy]

So you have no concept of the design im talking about then so why comment

Rude, I’ve travelled horses in all types of transport for over 30 years thousands of miles… If you comment on a public forum people will reply to your comment. If you are so experienced why were you loading 2 horses into a 3.5 which would be way over the payload, & if the design is so unsafe, why did you continue to try to load them?! You still haven’t answered as to why you simply didn’t walk down the ramp when the partition fell over, surely you were on the right side of the horse tying it to the ring?! So how were you trapped? Trippity trap off under your bridge …

 

[ycbm]

1st, if somones telling you that x y z happened because of x y z you should be grateful for the information and retain it, not try and belittle the problem because you are a livery on a yard and only see your horse twice a day, some of us have been in this for a very long time and know we are always still learning

The problem is that none of us can make head nor tail of what the x y z you're actually describing was.

You are, by the by, talking to someone who has had horses and been transporting them around in various vehicles for 45 years, for 31 of which, ending last year due to my husband's health, my horses were kept at home.

I still don't understand why you couldn't just tie up the second horse and leave down the ramp like the rest of us do.
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