Back people - is it a con?

[LEC]

I had a very good lesson with someone the other day who has worked with horses for 22 years and said that back people are a massive waste of time as they always find something wrong with your horse. Has anyone ever had a back person out and seen that your horse is 100% and told you?

In my experience of riding for 24 years I had the back person out for the first time last week ever as I knew my horse was not right on left rein and sure enough there was a small problem. But the lady I had said my horse is perfect muscle/structure wise and that he does not need regular check ups as he will tell you if something is wrong. Thank god for that I thought as I am such a cynic about it all.

So are we all conned by it all? Is it really that necessary? We have had about 20 horses in my lifetime none have needed backs done till my nag this week. I think a lot of the problem is that it is done on trust as I have not got a clue and they can so easily take me for a ride. If a farrier cocks up you know and can see it. Anyway just wondering what people thought?

 

[dieseldog]

Funny you should post this. I had a lady out on Monday as Olympic can be a bit stiff on one rein, and she said.... I'm very sorry to tell you but there is absolutly nothing wrong with your horse, he has no pain in his back anywhere. The same for Floyd, but Spot had a few sore points.

She did say that it was impossible for a horse to put its back out because of the way its spine is built

 

[Beanyowner]

Yes I have...A chap called David Ponton came and saw Benson a few years ago and said he was a very sturdy horse and that there was nothing wrong and didn't expect to come again unless he has a bad fall or if I feel something is wrong. His exact words were...cobs put together like this don't tend to go wrong very often, nice and sturdy.

I liked this response...understandably...even though it didn't help the fact that Benson was dropping his head everytime I walked in wth his tack...turned out he was suffering from depression because of the Flash noseband! Took that off and he was perfectly happy again...weirdo animal!

 

[miamibear]

I had a qualified physiotherapist (ACPAT) to my horse about a month ago, i had no particular problems just wanted him checking so i knew i was starting on a clean slate.

She could have told me he had problems as i didnt know his past and he needed seeing a lot but she said he had 2 extremely small areas of tension, could have ridden without them hindering his performance so she put them right and left, charged me less too and said unless i had a physical problem with him she had no need to see him again!

I believe it was worth it for the piece of mind.

Sometimes i think the people who think back people dont work are the ones who have been told there is a slight offishness with their horse they have various people out, none of which qualified and they think its a one time fix problem. Problems often need seeing more than once and then regular checks - most people arent prepared to shell out.

Im know there are con artists out there as ive used some years ago. I would never use anyone not qualified now!

 

[Sooty]

We have had two out. The first was something like an osteopath, and she did nothing except take money. The second was a McTimoney chiropractor, and I would happily pay her just to come and visit! She is great, and although it is impossible to verify her claims that a horse's poll is out, Toffee always seems happier after a session.

 

[Sags_Deer]

you just have to remb one thing horses are not really designed to be ridden in the first place!! and yes there are honest back people out there who do admit when your horse has nothing wrong with it. go on recommendation from your vet or a good friend

 

[katelarge]

In the current H&H there is a veterainry article by my vet Peter Green and although I don't have the article to hand he says something along the lines of it's not possible to adjust the bones in a horse's spine?

 

[Emma123]

Person that does Bailey is very honest, and is able to tell which is there worst reign etc and only charges £15! Definitly helps Bailey, when somethings wrong in his back he starts running out at fences and as soon as its put right you can't stop him!

Definitly have their uses but the one we've used my aunties known for years, i think some can take you for a ride

 

[Snowberry]

I use a lovely back man - he is 100% honest and if there is nothing 'wrong' with the pony/horse he says so. So I never feel he is taking me for a ride.
However, he has no qualifications but has worked his trade for over 30yrs. 70% of what he does is showmanship imho but I have never had anyone treat my horses the way he does, they love the 'sunlamps' and a good massage at the end. He tells me whats wrong with them, how they are going/or not going, what they jump like, how they were injured etc... He is fab imho and he always offers a free return which in many years of using him I have only ever had to use on one pony.
We did try a local man who is qualified and he spent 5mins on my horse, didnt 'fix it' and charged me £75 for the pleasure!!!!

 

[severnmiles]

Dads convinced its a con. But I must say when I had Ernie checked out she showed me and his hips were wonky and one was lower than the other. I've only had backs checked in the last two years starting with a horse I had who felt stiff to school, he couldn't flex very well but he was no different after his check up. When Ernie had his teeth and back checked he became horrible to ride and started spinning around out hacking (which he'd not done previously) and being a bit nappy, he was also rigid in the mouth but after a few weeks he came good again and he seems really happy at the mo so perhaps I'm not so sceptical of it after all!

 

[Sooty]

That's interesting. We are registered with Peter Green's practice, and they were happy to recommend a chiropractor.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
In the current H&H there is a veterainry article by my vet Peter Green and although I don't have the article to hand he says something along the lines of it's not possible to adjust the bones in a horse's spine?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, really you should go for a chiropracter that moves the muscles, if the bone has been out for some time the muscles often re-aline so you need to move the muscles and not just the bones, maybe thats what he means in his article?

If you only move the bones and not the muscle its possible that the bone will come back out in no time.

 

[vicijp]

My chliro comes most weeks and checks about 5 horses at a time. Usually 1/2 of those are ok and she doesnt charge.
I think the trust thing is a big issue. Unless you have loads of horses treated by the same person regularly it is hard to tell whether they are any good or not.
You single horse owner is never going to see enough horses treated to make an informed decision, so its best to take the word of someone you do know and trust as a recommendation.

 

[Ginn]

When I had my exracer I had the back lady out once as he was so tight on the right rein, most due to racing left! She pointed out where the tension was and gave me some riding exercises to help loosen him up. She also showed me how to massage the tense areas and sure enough they started to relax. I was happy to pay for this as it taught me someting and my horse thoroughly enjoyed it!

i will have madam checked out before she's backed purely as I don't want any excuses - if I know her back is fine, tack is fine and teeth are fine then if and when she's naughty I'll know thats not the cause! I do have a really good feel along her back, shoulders etc and give her lots of massages as she really enjoys them and I now know her back so well that I feel 95% sure I'd notice if something wasn't right. If there was a problem then I'd consider getting someone out - at best it helps the problem, at worse she's had £40 spent on a good massage and I get peace of mind. I do not however beleive that any back person or physio is going to realign the back or manipulate the spine into position as the forces required to do that are not possible with human hands!

 

[pottamus]

Well I am lucky enough not to have had any problems with my horse in this area. But I am sure there are con men/women back specialists as there are with every other service - equine or not.
I can only speak from personal experience on my own body that certain types of chiropractitioners/physios do make an unbelievable difference as they did with my hips/lower back. But as has been mentioned, I would say that it is not the spine we are dealing with but the muscles and tendons surrounding the area that cause the problems and can cause crookedness in the spine - human or equine.
If I had someone out to correct a problem with my horses back I would expect to see a fair bit of manipulation going on and for the horse to object at times due to the pain...again I can only relate to my own scenario. In order to put my back,hips and muscles right I had to go through a fair amount of pain...I would expect the same for a horse.
I know of a couple of people near me that are these varieities of so called 'hands on healers'...they both lay their hands on the horses 'bad area' and heal it through thought and energy fields...I am afraid I find this to be utter rubbish and a joke...no body of tissues and muscles can be healed in this way...it is impossible!!!
But going back to the original question...I think they have their place but you have to be careful who you use and go on personal recommendation...as with all these things.

 

[vicster]

We have Helen Jacks and i find her excellent she explains things well if she finds any sore points which you can see straight away if there is by the horses reactions. Usually the pelvis is a bog issue for my horse and i can feel it when its out a little he feels tight and very stiff on the right rein in particular but as soon as Helen as done a treatment on him he feels so different. They must do something right

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone ever had a back person out and seen that your horse is 100% and told you?

[/ QUOTE ] Yep - have had a back lady out twice to my mare to check her out and both times told there was no problem and no treatment needed.

 

[siennamum]

It's a valid question and sadly I think a great many back people are a con. (I've mentioned one of the biggest con artists to you)
I have a McT chiro, who rarely finds anything wrong with my horses, takes 20 minutes to establish this and corrects problems with simple pain free treatments.

I would only use a new back person after a vet had diagnosed the problem and recommended that investigation of the back is the next logical step.

There are two big misconceptions about horses backs which fund the practices of unscrupulous back people.

1. that there is ANY valid comparison with our own backs. The muscle to bone ratios mean that it's highly unlikely that horses bones will move at all, either to cause a problem or to correct a problem. Claims about rotated pelvises are bandied about and are misleading, they generally relate to a muscular issue, and ANY back person who treats many horses with rotated pelvises is one I would avoid.

2. Most back problems are actually due to a problem in the feet, teeth, saddle, rider or hocks (amongst others), and apart from a fall or similar which has caused a misalignment or trapped nerve or similar, the back problem is just the symptom of a problem elsewhere. By treating the symptom rather than the cause of the problem, back people can create real problems.

Anyone who has a back person, who carries out lots of manipulation or causes the horses discomfort, should be treated with scepticism in my opinion - especially when they tell you your horse has a rotated pelvis!!!

 

[siennamum]

What she does is a little massage and manipulation which relieves muscle spasms. Your horses pelvis feels out because he is holding himself unlevelly and awkwardly. Instead of having a massage every now and then to make his back more comfortable, you should try and investigate why he carries himself uncomfortably. It may be he has sharp teeth, a problem in his lower limbs, a problem in his hocks or a problem with his saddle or with your position, Does your chiro explain why he's unlevel, and have you had any vet investigation which resulted in her treatment.

 

[tuscanyD]

I have to agree with Siennamum...

You can't move bones - not even in people I believe!
I've used a chiro/osteo for myself and they manipulate you certainly but they are releasing tension and spasm in soft tissues not moving bones. The 'crack' it makes when they whip your head around at 90 miles an hour [not for the fainthearted I tell you] is merely escaping pockets of gas.
Not one of them EVER claimed they were moving my bones.

Regarding horses I believe the same - a good physio or whatever can identify sore/weak areas and hopefully the cause - they help to release the soft tissue, stimulate muscle activity if need be and CRUTIALLY give you exercises for your horse to keep the area stretched/supple/stimulated as the case dictates.

I know from my own back issues that if it's a lot better if I keep doing my exercises to maintain it - physio helps short term - but long term relief is down to me - same with horses.

 

[flyingfeet]

I'm afraid I think most of them are a waste of money.

We had a really good one out, to look at our youngster who said he was fine, but the rider needed to change (not me!).

He said that if anyone tells you they can manipulate the bones / back they are telling porkies - if you could really do that all horses would fall apart!

Muscles hold the horse together and most back problems are muscle problems caused by the rider followed by ill fitting saddles.

I have had two horses with pelvis problems, but confirmed by Vet and had to be retired as there is nothing you can do.

 

[so03]

Yes I use a really good osteopath. Stabled same yard as Mr Magoo.

She is brilliant, I had Murph checked just before he was being backed and she didn't find any problems with him.

As I've owned Murphy since he was 1 I know when he has a pain as it shows clearly when ridden. Osteo will normally sort problem out with only one visit.

If my horse goes lame and I can't see anything obvious. It's either the farrier or the osteopath that get the call first.

Also my old girl Bonnie used to get colic once a week, this was around 15 years ago when I first took over her care. My Osteo came to see her for the first time about 6 years ago, not knowing her problems. Bonnie nearly killed poor Osteo as she didn't like a particular part of her back touched. We spent an hour and a half just getting the osteo's hand on her back, she eventually managed to get her relaxed. Turns out that the area concerned had nerves that ran down to the stomach. I'm sure this is all connected to her colic. Since having the osteo at least once a year, the colic (touch lots of wood) is reduced to perhaps a little bout once a year.

But there must be a few con artists out there as people have already said.

 

[eohippus]

I find in some cases where there is obvious tension or stiffness then they can provide you with some good tips and massage techniques to help, however, what annoys me is that they often do not look at the whole picture. I have seen many 'back people' who will come out and manipulate the horse standing, or may actually watch it walk and trot up, but rarely do I hear them ask to see the horse under saddle! this can give them a whole new insight as to why the horse maybe sore, stiff or uneven. If the rider, tack, school surface or exercise regime ect is the problem, what is the point with just manipulating the horse and not dealing with cause.
I would be sceptical with anyone trying to help without looking at the whole picture.
best regards
Dawn

 

[vicijp]

Trust works both ways.
My chliro can actually tell me what the horse is like under saddle without me saying a word, and she would never question the descriptions I give her.

 

[racingdemon]

yes, mine regularly check things over for me and tell me they are fine, and if they aren't they fix them for me.... but mine are OUTSTANDING and TBH i've yet to come across anyone that comes close

 

[tuscanyD]

I guess it is a matter of personal preference - and if the person is doing no harm and you believe it works then I guess a person should be guided by their own instincts.

There is a woman in my area who uses crystals and manipulates the bones using a plank of wood and a hammer!!
Many people swear by her and have used her for years others swear never to let her near their horses again as they couldn't get near their horses heads after her treatment. I have no truck with it at all - was talked into her doing my mare - absolutely no difference at all. Perhaps people are swayed by her fee of £15 as opposed to the £40 for a properly trained physio??

I AM fascinated by the unequal hip thing though - I've seen it done - seen a hoss stood up squarely and evenly and felt that one hip seems lower than the other. I have also seen the manipulation that appears to square it up again. I don't believe it - that these people are 'moving' hips or pelvis's back into line but I can't deny the evidence of my eyes -

would be interested if anyone [or anyone's vet] has a rational and scientific explanation of this!?

 

[Kelly1982]

I had a McTimoney Chiro out to my horse and she said that he was absolutly fine (apart from his muscular problems) and didn't need a re-visit.

 

[MillionDollar]

I had a back woman come out a few years ago through a friend who highly rcommended her. Well she was awful, she didn't look like she had a clue. Her conclusion was that my horse's pelvis was twisted?! Anyway turns out i had to have the vet out the next day coz my horse got a virus, so asked the vet. She checked her, turns out her pelvis was and is completely fine.

In my opinion i think there are very good back people (but are rare), and others are god damn awful and are a waste of time and money.

 

[puddicat]

He he he well YES of course I think its ALL A BIG CON and in fact, its really cool to see so many people replying to your post who have been told that it's effectively impossible to dislocate bones or move muscles, either as a result of injury or a result of therapy. Its all true and reasonably easy to demonstrate.

Its really funny how some ideas perpetuate and grow despite there being good reasons why they are nonsense. Dropping a horse over a XC fence at speed so it lands awkwardly could not only damage the back but kill the animal, however thinking your horse has done its back in from something tantamount to a round of jumping is pure fantasy.

Another thing which is quite astonishing to me is the idea that some dude palpating the external surface of your horse believes they can tell you whether there has been damage [deep] below the surface and what it is. Funnily enough vets can't do this, they have to use imaging equipment to see the condition of structures not visible to the eye and feel the need to do this rather than guess what might be damaged and how.

 

[goeslikestink]

um--- i have been in horses since i was 7 and now 50 in all those years i have many a horse more than people had hot dinners due to my work with them--
i went to a local yard and the back person was on a visit and got interrupted by people saying can you look at my horse etc, the person didnt have enough time for everyone so made an

appointment for a days visit in the yard-- that yard holds 70 liveries-- that yard got conned -- as she said they all needed this or that and she would have to call back---she was on a call out fee of 55.00 for 1/2hr --wasnt until about the 4th visit people got wise...

as to my own feelings if you keep ahorse fit and supple and you ride correctly and central in the seat and putting weight in your heals like distributing your weight evenly on the horse
and not just plonking down hard in the saddle when you get on
or when you trot etc
if you think of how you would feel with a person on you and respect that--and use the horse nicely and politely--in other words kind and not heavy handed

then i think the horse will stay fit --via exercise and diet
my old pony is 36yrs hes stil work a lesson on a saturday just to keep in in check with the odd ride round the woods like an airing
to keep him from free-- as he does have a touch of arthuritis


back specialist are a new thing as with many others
somethings work others dont but i have offend thought of this answer to those other alturnatives on medical help for the horse

i have lasted 50yrs without them- but it will take another 50 yrs to prove wether and which alturnative is any good

as if they are it will be listed in a vetinary journal
if not it will be listed in a horse mag as a bad altunative.