Back to diy we go

I love FL for the most part.
I travel a lot for work so have been on FL on & off for years as I couldn't manage horses otherwise. I've been on yards where the YO was used to having novice owners so she managed every aspect of the horse's care 7 days a week, meaning she found it difficult when I had a different opinion to her about how my horse should be managed. I've also been on yards where the mucking out wasnt ideal or how I'd do it myself however it was acceptable & I trusted YO with every other aspect.
Current yard and YO are fabulous. I couldn't look after the horse better myself. The bed is so clean I'd sleep in it myself. If I ask for soaked hay, I get it. If I ask for feeds to be changed, stopped, whatever, it's done. YO does what I ask WRT rugs, exercises the horse how I ask (when I need him worked) & treats all horses on the yard as if they were her own. I've never had any qualms handing over responsibility to her.

I do think so much of it is down to the yard staff / YO. If you get a good one, they're invaluable in a situation like mine when I can't get there daily due to being somewhere in Europe all week.
 
I think you're all mental hahaha I have the choice of keeping my horse at home and he's still on full livery. I hate mucking out. I hate bringing him in and turning out. I hate filling hay nets and water. After wintering both mine on DIY last year I will try my hardest to never go on DIY ever again. My poor boys were out at 6am and back in - last at 6pm in the knee deep mud by the gate waiting for me. Less time for ridingand grooming because I was constantly **** shoveling. Stressing about vets/farrier/dentist visits whilst I'm at work because there's no one to stand with them. Bloody awful.

But I'm really not that precious about my horses/ who brings them in or whether they have the wrong coloured buckets. As long as they are fed, watered, warm and safe I'm happy. But wouldn't it be boring if we were all he same hahaha
 
ihatework said:
i don't understand this.
I've had horses on DIY, assisted and full and I can say hand on heart that I have more quality interaction with my horse when she is on full livery. I spend less time shovelling the brown stuff and more time grooming and riding. I make it a point to see my horse every day unless out of the country with work.
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I guess it varies for each person, but I often muck out with mine either in the stable or tied up outside. At least 50% of my 'mucking out' involves talking to my horse, giving him a pat or a rub (and kisses, I confes :D )each time I move by him & generally just making a fuss of him. If he's inside the stable then he often 'helps' by following me around the stable, grabbing my broom and so on :D

Don't get me wrong, I often think I'd like part livery or full livery when I'm rushing around in the mornings before work but it would be a stretch financially and actually I quite like the looking after him aspect of it. Often it's chill out time for me after a busy day at work, as much as it physically looking after my horse.

I do pay my YM to bring in when I'm at work & either T/O or B/I on the weekends if I have plans, so I do have more flexibility than a solely DIY yard would without having to buddy up with another livery.

I realise DIY is not for everyone - due to circumstances or personal choice & of course it's possible to have a bond with a horse on part livery or full, but I understand why people also consider it 'bonding' when just doing mundane jobs too, as I do.
 
Moomin1 said:
Because for me having a bond with a horse is much more than simply turning up, running a brush over them and riding. I often muck out whilst my mare is in the stable which I absolutely love. Each to their own I guess. Not everyone wants the hassle of mucking out etc.
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I've two horses on DIY and I never muck out with them in the stable, cant stand it and not good for them if can avoid it. Will occasionally skip out. I think it's not necessarily true that DIY owner have more riding and horse contact time than full or part livery owners.

Time spent on yard maintenance, school maintenance, mucking out, collecting / organising hay, feed, bedding, dealing with muck heap, sweeping, field maintenance, scrubbling water trough, ragworting, poo picking are all horsey related out door jobs, and if time is plentiful and weather nice, pretty satisfying jobs.

BUT they are still chores compared to grooming / stretching / working your horse, and don't really involve interacting with your horse.

TBH I know owners on DIY that throw horse out in morning, throw it back in in evening and barely interact with horse. I know full livery owners that come up every few months. And I know the opposite. I know good full livery owners and bad DIY owners and vice versa.
 
Shame it has to read a bit like DIY v Full. Again. When you walk around a possibly new yard then you can see so much... How the beds are, hay in the box, what do they feed etc etc. Mine is now on a sort of assisted (brought in x2 a week) and my friends and I sort out the other turn out/bring between us. There are always compromises to be made and tbh, even when I was on PL, I didn't expect staff to check as carefully as I do. I was incredibly grateful to be on a pro yard with a "special" horse on PL. He literally could not be turned out unsupervised and he was in proper hard work. Long suffering YO would ensure he was only out when either she or a staff member was around to ensure no mischief was caused. I don't care about the clips or the buckets being messed up. I care that my horse is comfortable, fed and clean. Everything else was always my responsibility.
 
Moomin1 said:
Because for me having a bond with a horse is much more than simply turning up, running a brush over them and riding. .
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This. In a nutshell. I have always been DIY... on the three rare occasions I have asked for help it has always gone horribly wrong.
 
I would hate full livery too. My friend is the only one i trust with my horse when im away cause i know she will follow directions stringently and not be one to care for the bonding process, shes there to do the job and thats that and she does it well. My YO while very good at stepping in if needed thinks they know how much my horse should eat etc and it would be very tiresome.
 
wingedhorse said:
I've two horses on DIY and I never muck out with them in the stable, cant stand it and not good for them if can avoid it. Will occasionally skip out. I think it's not necessarily true that DIY owner have more riding and horse contact time than full or part livery owners.

Time spent on yard maintenance, school maintenance, mucking out, collecting / organising hay, feed, bedding, dealing with muck heap, sweeping, field maintenance, scrubbling water trough, ragworting, poo picking are all horsey related out door jobs, and if time is plentiful and weather nice, pretty satisfying jobs.

BUT they are still chores compared to grooming / stretching / working your horse, and don't really involve interacting with your horse.

TBH I know owners on DIY that throw horse out in morning, throw it back in in evening and barely interact with horse. I know full livery owners that come up every few months. And I know the opposite. I know good full livery owners and bad DIY owners and vice versa.
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Great post...particularly the last paragraph.

DIY itself doesn't deepen the bond but spending time getting to know your horse does. For some people full livery gives them the perfect opportunity for this.

FWIW my eventer was based on full livery with my trainer for a while. Every time I walked in the yard he whickered to me. I didn't muck him out but he still knew I was his human.
 
yep ive had horses full livery, grass and at home and it never made a jot of difference how they viewed me and bonded with me.
 
I've always had all of my horses on diy livery, I've worked on livery yards and seen it from the other side of owners being humoured,but also seeing owners being a pain in the bum causing mess and not putting their horse first as well being on occasion quite rude to staff! Always vowed to stay on diy as I feel you know your horse better etc! Last couple of years I've worked shifts and been able to do my horse myself and on occasion paid a 'pro' to bring in or turn out if required but I got let down several times and got to the stage where I was just constantly worried. I've now moved location and jobs and decided rather than sitting at work worried it would be better to go down the part livery route and u can honestly say I'm so happy! The yard do her five days a week and I do weekends. All my bedding and hay is included but I buy my own feed and write up the feeds on the board! I arrive after work to a happy horse already in her pjs munching on hay with her feet picked out and I just brush ride and give her the already made up dinner. If I can't make it for any reason then I just text and the yard puts her to bed! I knew as soon as I looked round that I liked the yard the horses are all so settled and my girl is so much happier they are out there you've just got to look!
 
I've always had my horses on full - can't do anything else due to work commitments. I can fully assure the diy'ers that my horses know who their owner is, opposed to the person that shovels up after them!
 
I had mine on part livery when I first got him and it worked well for 6 years. I worked away at least once a week, was running a busy business and was a complete novice. I needed the help and it gave me time to spend time with Izzy without having to worry about mucking out etc.

Then I got a second horse and he was at grass livery at same place as Izzy was at part livery. My work has changed and I am travelling less, younger horse loves being out 24/7 and so does older one, so have moved them to DIY with 24/7 turnout all year round. So far it is working out well, they are loving it and so am I. I have a lady who helps but not really needing too much help yet. Very lucky that mine are pretty hardy and actually only come in for a few hours a day.

But I would happily go back to part livery if work changed and I didn't have the time. I don't think my bond with the boys has changed. They have always known I am their person, whoever was feeding them.
 
Also I would add that personally some of the most unhappiest horses I have ever seen have been on DIY.
- Horses dealt with at 5am through the week then expected to stand in until 9am on a weekend.
- Horses standing without hay all night because they have finished their haynets at 9pm but the owners don't know because they left at 5pm & no late check is done.
- Horses standing in muddy gateways for hours in winter, because one person gets their horse in at 3pm so they are hanging to come in...but their owners won't be up until 6pm
- horses banging doors etc because their neighbour has been fed but not them because their owner is not down for another hour.
Yes, these are huge generalisations & I'm sure lots of you will claim it doesn't happen on your yard for x,y & z reasons but I think we've all witnessed it to some extent, no?

I think it's wonderful those that can manage well on DIY but IMO I've never seen a working horse owner on DIY who isn't rushing like mad to get all chores done & ride through the week, particularly through winter.

I'm lucky all of mine are at home now & I pay for help for some of the jobs that I can't/won't do.
 
I can relate to some of those items glamourpuss has listed.... but a good DIY yard you cant beat - especially one that has RULES !

I fed all the horses as I was one of the first on the yard - and for ease - hay Buckets were placed over the doors, for those that did not have a 'feed' for breakfast.

Turn out herds were small in large fields.. and rule was, no horse was to be left out on its own, so people worked together, to bring other peoples horses in... this stopped (in theory) the hanging around the gate issue!

Yes - there was one odd ball DIY owner... and people did try to rally these people on .. but people covered the pony...

It was a real yard - a genuine family ! people had been there for over 25 years with the same horses!


There is a livery yard near me, that is excellent.. and I'm thinking of maybe going for it.... only thing that so far that puts me off, is that I have seen horses brought in from the filed in fours... I wouldn't want my horse handled like this - maybe this is something I could raise?

Apart from that.... the yard is well managed... the owner seems excellent....
 
My first horse was kept on full livery, and my second was on full livery for about 6 months after we bought him. We switched to DIY at the same yard following a (massive) hike in livery costs. It was hard work, as I was still at school and then at uni for 5 years, but I was much happier DIY and I found that my horse was a lot more settled as well. I think it was from having just one person looking after him rather than half a dozen.

I'm now living the control freak dream with the horses at home! :D It does mean a 6am start Monday to Friday because I'm at work, but I wouldn't change it for the world. I am lucky in that my sister's horse is here too so I do mornings and she does afternoons, and we can cover for each other if one's on holiday.
 
A friend moved from a popular full livery yard due to horses being left without hay (staff forgot), medication not being put in feeds when requested, a member of staff trying to get a horse off the walker without turning it off and screaming at said horse when it was reluctant to walk through the gap because it banged itself...

I live and breathe my horses, they are my whole world and my life is geared around them, not the other way round, so DIY works for me. I am fortunate to be on a small, private yard with exceptional land for all year turnout, individual fields (horses out in pairs so mine are together) but I did over 20 years on a huge DIY yard and saw all sorts of horrors with regards management of horses. Some people had no problems leaving horses stabled from 4.30pm one day til 4.30pm the next day, thinking that someone chucking a brekkie over the door in the morning was sufficient.
 
scats said:
A friend moved from a popular full livery yard due to horses being left without hay (staff forgot), medication not being put in feeds when requested, a member of staff trying to get a horse off the walker without turning it off and screaming at said horse when it was reluctant to walk through the gap because it banged itself...

I live and breathe my horses, they are my whole world and my life is geared around them, not the other way round, so DIY works for me. .
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Same.
I moved from part livery (that I had kind of been forced into as no other suitable yards and it was too far to go twice a day)... on more than one occasion my horse had been forgotten on a weekend morning even though it was a regular request that they did her, and the yard was staffed on weekends. There's good and bad in all kinds of yards.

I love being on DIY, I am obsessive about seeing to my horses even if I'm relaxed about some details ;) I wouldn't ever want to have a single horse on a DIY yard again though. Having 2 solves the problem of leaving them out/bringing in earlier or later than other people.

I would definitely pay for a full-haynet-livery though, it's my least favourite job and if someone would offer a freelance haynet service I'd be a long term regular client :o
 
I have to say that I love being on full livery, after years (a decade plus) of being on DIY! I work long hours and love the luxury of not having to go up if I have to work late/have commute issues. Whenever I turn up (and I try to change my hours to keep staff on their toes!) he always has a lovely deep bed, two full haynets and the right rug on, with all straps fastened. He is always cared for well, and I can use my very limited time to either ride and put to bed, or do a proper groom/tidy up - which I virtually never had time to do whilst on DIY. My instructions are always listened to and observed. My only qualm in 3 months so far is realising he was being turned out in a rug whose neck straps had disappeared, when he had a perfectly good rug in his stable with neck straps still on which could have been used. That said, I've helped turn out some horses as a favour and it's very daunting being given a full selection of very similar rugs and not being sure which to use, so for me it's very forgiveable.
 
I'm on part livery which in effect is he gets everything done 5 days a week and I do 2 days but he still gets turned out and brought in by them on those days, he likes to come in when he wants to come in so as owners live on site they pander to his every need, he is royalty after all lol. I still pay for and have control of his feed. I am more than happy and so is he in his retirement, he'll be 38 on the weekend. My yard owner goes above and beyond tbh
 
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To be fair, everything that people have said in praise of full livery was true - it was luxurious and everything ran as clockwork. Plus, my husband much preferred seeing me in the evenings.

But there are negatives to full livery, like there are negatives to DIY, and it's a case of which negatives you'd rather live with.

With that aside, this thread was never intended as a diy vs. full livery discussion, it was just me bellyaching.
 
There are obviously pros and cons to both, but I think you have to try everyone's approach before you can fiercely dismiss it. Full livery isn't for everyone, I didn't really like it but it did teach me to let go of being such a control freak which has worked to my advantage at times when I haven't been able to get anywhere near them (illness).
 
I've had my boys on both Part and Full Livery in the past but always ended up doing everything myself anyway - re-mucking out, giving extra haylage etc so I worked out I would save a lot of money doing DIY so I moved yards and never looked back. I can have them on ad-lib haylage like I want to, can turn them out everyday and for as long as I want and keep them in a routine which suits both me and them. I'd never go back to Full/Part Livery now - would be nice to have a hand with the poo picking now and then though lol!
 
I have done both and have had good and bad experiences of both. Currently on FL on the best yard. My work and home life would not allow me to be diy and provide the care I like. The most important thing with FL is trust and communication. My yo is great and I even get picture messages of L sleeping or being an idiot! After work I do her bed and feed her and text if I won't be up. I also like having someone who knows her well enough that I can bounce ideas off them. I get a bit annoyed by people who say you can't have the same bond if on FL as it is just stupid to think that. Spending time with a horse creates a bond. I spend as much time if not more with my horse as most diy liveries and I can spend all that time with her. I am as involved with her care as most diyers. There are also other liveries on the yard who we never see. The horses are well cared for and look well but I do think they miss out on the one to one. They are much better off than some horses I have seen on diy though.
 
I am lucky enough to be able to be on part livery at a yard where none of the mentioned issues occur. Prior to that I was on DIY grass livery for 6 years so have seen both sides. When I was on the DIY yard there was stabled and grass DIY's and there were only a handful of us who worked full time, most people either did not work at all or worked part time.

The problem with totally DIY yards is that even if you never go on the holiday, what happens if you get too sick to go to the yard? I have just had a really nasty chest infection and was running a fever for three days, there was no way I could have got to the yard. In the end the virus was so bad I was only able to get to the yard once in 10 days. In my old DIY days I would have to plead with friends to find someone to help whilst I was ill which was stressful now I can be ill knowing that my pony will be cared for properly and without having to trying and find someone help at short notice. Whilst I was on DIY a livery there broke her ankle so was off for nearly six weeks and during that time she had to ask friends at the yard to help out and we had to try and set up mucking out rota to try and fit in her horse as well as our own.

I would never go pure DIY again unless I had no other choice mainly because of no cover for sickness or emergencies and having to rely on friends is not ideal as you can't guarantee that they will always be available to help.
 
jumping.jack_flash said:
I fed all the horses as I was one of the first on the yard - and for ease - hay Buckets were placed over the doors, for those that did not have a 'feed' for breakfast.

Turn out herds were small in large fields.. and rule was, no horse was to be left out on its own, so people worked together, to bring other peoples horses in... this stopped (in theory) the hanging around the gate issue!
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Precisely why I would never go on DIY. Haven't time, energy or interest to deal with other people's horses. Would be pretty annoyed if someone brought my horse in just because he was the only one still out as he couldn't care less.
 
SO1 said:
The problem with totally DIY yards is that even if you never go on the holiday, what happens if you get too sick to go to the yard? I have just had a really nasty chest infection and was running a fever for three days, there was no way I could have got to the yard. In the end the virus was so bad I was only able to get to the yard once in 10 days. In my old DIY days I would have to plead with friends to find someone to help whilst I was ill which was stressful now I can be ill knowing that my pony will be cared for properly and without having to trying and find someone help at short notice. Whilst I was on DIY a livery there broke her ankle so was off for nearly six weeks and during that time she had to ask friends at the yard to help out and we had to try and set up mucking out rota to try and fit in her horse as well as our own.

I would never go pure DIY again unless I had no other choice mainly because of no cover for sickness or emergencies and having to rely on friends is not ideal as you can't guarantee that they will always be available to help.
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I have lupus so it's pretty life threatening for me when I get ill, but in the last 27 years I've had one occasion when I was too unwell to get down to the yard, and that was because I was in hospital and not allowed out. I've had 9 kidney infections this year (lupus related) and have still managed to do my horses, albeit the bare minimum (riding and grooming may have gone out the window on these days!). Two years ago I swallowed a parasite from a fish tank- don't ask!!- and was so ill I could barely move, but somehow still managed to do my horses (in between vomiting..)

I realise I'm probably the exception to the rule, and as I live the majority of my life in some sort of health crisis, I'm possibly a bit more used to carrying on regardless. However, if I were really stuck - like when I was in hospital- my Dad would do the horses and my friends would help. But it's such a rare occasion that it's not an issue.

I have also mucked out on crutches, 4 hours after leaving A+E with a badly broken ankle and became pretty good at rugging horses and mucking out with a broken wrist. I did, however, hover at the bottom of the muck heap ramp and wait for assistance in tipping.
 
scats said:
I have lupus so it's pretty life threatening for me when I get ill, but in the last 27 years I've had one occasion when I was too unwell to get down to the yard, and that was because I was in hospital and not allowed out. I've had 9 kidney infections this year (lupus related) and have still managed to do my horses, albeit the bare minimum (riding and grooming may have gone out the window on these days!). Two years ago I swallowed a parasite from a fish tank- don't ask!!- and was so ill I could barely move, but somehow still managed to do my horses (in between vomiting..)

I realise I'm probably the exception to the rule, and as I live the majority of my life in some sort of health crisis, I'm possibly a bit more used to carrying on regardless. However, if I were really stuck - like when I was in hospital- my Dad would do the horses and my friends would help. But it's such a rare occasion that it's not an issue.

I have also mucked out on crutches, 4 hours after leaving A+E with a badly broken ankle and became pretty good at rugging horses and mucking out with a broken wrist. I did, however, hover at the bottom of the muck heap ramp and wait for assistance in tipping.
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I feel bad about throwing a wobbler over my chest infection now! 😂 but this kind of sums up why I personally feel I get more benefit out of diy. When I had the last mare on full, even if I was just a bit overloaded at work I'd ask for a student to ride her and wouldn't see her, with the new one on diy even on Christmas morning I was mucking out and turning out and having a few sneaky cuddles before travelling home.

There's enough people around the yard that if I was ever actually really in a jam they could dig me out for a couple of days, and my horsey sisterinlaw is only 20 mins away if push really came to shove. But on diy I don't expect it so am much more inclined to sort myself out tell myself to suck it up and spend a bit of time with my horse, therefore I know her inside out and back to front.

It's such a personal thing though, and there reaaly are still days I long for full livery!!!
 
Snuffles said:
Noisygirl, your horse is 38 ! Mine is 22 and I am worrying about him reaching 25 when I am going to be over 70 as I am DIY !
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Yes lol he's very spoilt, I won't be having another one after him, as you say I don't want to worry about if anything happened to me, I do now !
 
Well i'm loving having my mare on part livery, I've just moved house to a new area plus am recovering from a hysterectomy so all been a bit manic but it's great knowing I can carry on with what I'm doing rather than revolving my days round the horse. I'm lucky enough to have moved to somewhere with land and my old boy is out 24/7 at home although he will be coming in at night soon. Of course it is temporary so maybe I'm just enjoying the holiday at the moment but she seems happy enough when I go up there.
 
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