Backing off in dressage arena?

ktj1891

ktj1891

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I constantly seem to be battling with my lad in the dressage arena. He will warm up lovely really relaxed and fairly forward (he is quite laidback and lazy by nature) and then soon as I take him in the arena 20 x 40m to do the test he just completely backs off my leg and im there kicking him the whole way through the test rather than being able to just sit and 'look pretty' as such and riding a lovely test which I know he can do!

For example weekend before the one just gone I took him to his first ever Team Quest BD event. He warmed up probably the most forwards he has ever been - even in walk, which is by far his worst pace as soon as I pick him up he will drop behind the leg and just produce a stifled walk! Anyways everything was feeling nicely and mainly forwards and off my leg. I then turn in down the centre line for A and its almost like he dies immediately soon as we enter those 4 'walls' of the arena. Miraculously, I don't even know how we still managed to get a good score of 69.02%

What can I do to improve this as I have another team quest event this weekend and I want to do better and not feel like I have to pony club kick him the whole way around?

I will add link to video of one of his typical dressage tests once it has uploaded to YT.

TIA
 
is there any chance that you do something differently as soon as you enter ring, like hold your breath or tense your seat without knowing and thats giving him mixed signals?
 
I definitely think I am too hard on myself and I guess that runs through him as I want to do well as I know at home he works so nicely so yes I may change myself as I put pressure on myself to do well as jumping isn't my forte.

This is his test previous to the one last week. Actually it was a really nice test for us, if anything I am nagging him when I shouldn't be and he was pretty forwards and on the ball for me and even the walk was okay!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ISUFjk96Agh
 
First step for me would be to get experienced friend/pro to ride him in a test - you need to find out whether it's him, you, or both of you.

If it's you, then practice, practice, practice until you're so bored of doing tests that you're not nervous any more. Get some white boards and rope some friends into judging.

If it's him, I'd go HC a few times so you can concentrate on going forwards instead of worrying about your score. Sis carried two whips for a few tests.
 
I think you are being hard on yourself it really was not that bad, he looks a bit lazy but and please don't take this the wrong way but you are constantly nagging with your leg, and because of where your leg is positioned it's quite far back and not underneath you so he is effectively getting jabbed in the ribs, if I were you I would take the spurs off and get him sharper off your leg without them because at the moment they are not serving a purpose the idea is to use your leg less and more effectively with spurs, to me he looks like he is switching off as I can imagine when you get in to do your test your worried his not going forward so you over use your leg.

just wanted to add I had a habit of nagging when I get nervous and when I think things are going wrong, so it's a common thing you probably don't even realise your doing it I didn't.
 
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can't watch your video as rubbish internet, but my little one can be like this- she seems to get stage fright and I ended up pushing and shoving her along in desperation, though she was super in the warm up, at trainers yard etc.

what has really helped her is doing some arena hire. Then we can go up the centre line between the white boards.. and if she dies on me, I've got 40 minutes rather than 4 to work through it. I'm planning to do a bit more to 'top her up' as it's also a good opportunity to run through tests in a long arena etc.
 
smja said:
First step for me would be to get experienced friend/pro to ride him in a test - you need to find out whether it's him, you, or both of you.

If it's you, then practice, practice, practice until you're so bored of doing tests that you're not nervous any more. Get some white boards and rope some friends into judging.

If it's him, I'd go HC a few times so you can concentrate on going forwards instead of worrying about your score. Sis carried two whips for a few tests.
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I don't get nervous, I think I just put pressure on myself to ride a good test. I have been told before though to just ride some tests as practise/schooling and kick/whip to sharpen him up in the test to show him in needs to go forwards.
 
Pinkvboots said:
I think you are being hard on yourself it really was not that bad, he looks a bit lazy but and please don't take this the wrong way but you are constantly nagging with your leg, and because of where your leg is positioned it's quite far back and not underneath you so he is effectively getting jabbed in the ribs, if I were you I would take the spurs off and get him sharper off your leg without them because at the moment they are not serving a purpose the idea is to use your leg less and more effectively with spurs, to me he looks like he is switching off as I can imagine when you get in to do your test your worried his not going forward so you over use your leg.

just wanted to add I had a habit of nagging when I get nervous and when I think things are going wrong, so it's a common thing you probably don't even realise your doing it I didn't.
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The test from my video wasn't the team quest one it was an individual one prior to that. Tbh that test wasn't too bad as you say I was nagging too much when I shouldn't. I think sometimes I try and force him out of his rhythm when in reality his trot isn't that big so it feels like he is going no where.

I don't always ride in spurs, I alternate between riding with and without. However, at shows I always where them. I agree with my leg its not great but where I feel I have to over compensate with my legs in the trot I don't look 'pretty' however, in canter I feel I can be completely still and he always works best in the canter. At home I don't nag I will go trans in different and same paces, swift and sharp kicks/flicks with whip to get him off my leg. It is very much a WIP as atm if I take my leg again from his sides in walk/trot he just dies on me!
 
milliepops said:
can't watch your video as rubbish internet, but my little one can be like this- she seems to get stage fright and I ended up pushing and shoving her along in desperation, though she was super in the warm up, at trainers yard etc.

what has really helped her is doing some arena hire. Then we can go up the centre line between the white boards.. and if she dies on me, I've got 40 minutes rather than 4 to work through it. I'm planning to do a bit more to 'top her up' as it's also a good opportunity to run through tests in a long arena etc.
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Yes my instructor has said this before. She said the same as horses getting excited and full of it out at shows they can also go in themselves and back off. I don't really think he is like this. I think its a mixture of me, going into a lot smaller arena for the test and I also think he takes advantage as he knows I don't want to use my leg or 'school' him as much so he takes the biscuit! I think as others have said I am just going to have to bite the bullet and ride him through the test like a schooling session so forget what I look like and the results and just make him go the way I would in the warm up or at home!
 
ktj1891 said:
The test from my video wasn't the team quest one it was an individual one prior to that. Tbh that test wasn't too bad as you say I was nagging too much when I shouldn't. I think sometimes I try and force him out of his rhythm when in reality his trot isn't that big so it feels like he is going no where.

I don't always ride in spurs, I alternate between riding with and without. However, at shows I always where them. I agree with my leg its not great but where I feel I have to over compensate with my legs in the trot I don't look 'pretty' however, in canter I feel I can be completely still and he always works best in the canter. At home I don't nag I will go trans in different and same paces, swift and sharp kicks/flicks with whip to get him off my leg. It is very much a WIP as atm if I take my leg again from his sides in walk/trot he just dies on me!
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The first thing that struck me was that you are rushing him in trot, he is being pushed out of his natural rhythm which in turn is making him shorten up, become tight and back off the leg, the same to a degree in the walk, in canter he is a different horse and you ride differently, not sure which way round it is but something changes, it may help if you sat in the trot so you can get more behind him.
When I teach someone who constantly pushes for more in the trot I encourage them to slow down for a while and accept what feels rather slow until the horse is allowed to soften, settle into its own rhythm and stride length, often once the rider asks for less the stride lengthens and the impulsion increases as the horse starts to push and use its power rather than being hurried out of it with the trot becoming flat.
Having a good strong canter before you enter the test can help, often riders trot around and forget to do what they may have been doing before they went over to the test area, they just trot around until the bell goes rather than using the time to continue to set the horse up. then as they enter it just goes even flatter.
 
be positive said:
The first thing that struck me was that you are rushing him in trot, he is being pushed out of his natural rhythm which in turn is making him shorten up, become tight and back off the leg, the same to a degree in the walk, in canter he is a different horse and you ride differently, not sure which way round it is but something changes, it may help if you sat in the trot so you can get more behind him.
When I teach someone who constantly pushes for more in the trot I encourage them to slow down for a while and accept what feels rather slow until the horse is allowed to soften, settle into its own rhythm and stride length, often once the rider asks for less the stride lengthens and the impulsion increases as the horse starts to push and use its power rather than being hurried out of it with the trot becoming flat.
Having a good strong canter before you enter the test can help, often riders trot around and forget to do what they may have been doing before they went over to the test area, they just trot around until the bell goes rather than using the time to continue to set the horse up. then as they enter it just goes even flatter.
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Yes I totally agree with this. I think I just find it hard getting the happy medium. As he is so lazy at times and not 'off my leg' I guess I get confused between that and his natural rhythm which it appears is a lot smaller trot than I am thinking he should have.

I don't know how to actually work on getting him forwards and off my leg but also relaxed and keeping him in his natural rhythm? I know I should do sitting trot more but I am just useless at it and bounce around far too much! I totally agree with the walk as well, again how can I get him more forwards and active in the walk without rushing him, as at the moment if I do a trot to walk transition he just dies on me or if I do 1m half circles or shorten up the rein he backs off as well?
 
Mine's like this, especially indoors - he sucks back into himself like a snail!

Spurs help. I use plastic spurs as he objects a bit to metal ones.

Also it's okay to RIDE every step in a test. It can be tempting to just sit and look pretty in front of the judge, but it won't get you the top marks. You can work a bit on making your aids more subtle, but you can still be giving those aids!

Personally I would do some canter transitions round the edge before the bell rings. You can either do trot to canter (though too many of these makes my guy too excited) or forward and back in canter. They really do start to want to take you forward after a couple of medium canters down the long side.
 
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ktj1891 said:
how can I get him more forwards and active in the walk without rushing him, as at the moment if I do a trot to walk transition he just dies on me
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Do trot to walk, two strides, and then immediately do walk to canter. They're clever and figure out they can slack off in the walk, so make sure when you walk they are always expecting an upward transition! ;)
 
Without being there it is hard to say what will work but it is a common issue with the more lazy types and my approach varies with them all, the pony I was working with today does loads of trot walk trot work with the emphasis on the upwards transition sometimes he doesn't even take a step of walk but is thinking forward so is sent on again so he is not thinking backwards, this works for him and gets the trot swinging along and when we do come down to work a bit on the walk he is going forward, if we insist on an obedient walk he can sulk so in order to keep him onside we accept what gets offered until he is really going, it is more of a half halt or 3/4 halt, that may work with yours. Some need to have a really decent canter in forward seat or pop over some poles to get going, walk is the hardest pace to improve and is often best done at the end of a session or out hacking when they are less likely to switch off, it is all about finding the key to the individual, thinking outside the box, working on their strengths to build confidence and the desire to work with you rather than focusing on their weaknesses which often has a negative effect on their attitude, reward what they do well and they will try harder.
 
be positive said:
Without being there it is hard to say what will work but it is a common issue with the more lazy types and my approach varies with them all, the pony I was working with today does loads of trot walk trot work with the emphasis on the upwards transition sometimes he doesn't even take a step of walk but is thinking forward so is sent on again so he is not thinking backwards, this works for him and gets the trot swinging along and when we do come down to work a bit on the walk he is going forward, if we insist on an obedient walk he can sulk so in order to keep him onside we accept what gets offered until he is really going, it is more of a half halt or 3/4 halt, that may work with yours. Some need to have a really decent canter in forward seat or pop over some poles to get going, walk is the hardest pace to improve and is often best done at the end of a session or out hacking when they are less likely to switch off, it is all about finding the key to the individual, thinking outside the box, working on their strengths to build confidence and the desire to work with you rather than focusing on their weaknesses which often has a negative effect on their attitude, reward what they do well and they will try harder.
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Brilliant - his walk is by far the worst it just feels like he doesn't think he can go forwards when he is collected up. All I do at the moment is boot him in walk as soon as I feel him slack off, doesn't really work he just gets angry and starts grinding on the bit. it gets to the point where if just walking around the outside of the arena he will start to walk well but if I try and do 10m circles or anything like that he will back off again. I will keep working with him I definitely agree you have to keep them onside. I give him sweeties through the session to keep him enjoying it and reinforcing when he does something right.
 
Pigeon said:
Also it's okay to RIDE every step in a test.
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This for me is a key point. Having been forced to watch hundreds of dressage tests it's amazing the number of riders who will settle for a mediocre test just in case there they mess up.
Look at it this way. If your horse is not going forwards and during the first movement you do what is necessary to get a forward reaction you might turn a 6 in to a 4. You may well then turn the next 10 movements from a 6 to a 7 or 8. Net result over 12 movements is an increase in marks of 11 marks for a loss of 2. Each movement is marked on its own merits. Be prepared to sacrifice a movement to improve the test overall and teach the horse something useful in the process.
 
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