bad livery

[indespair]

hi all I need some advice here! How do I get rid of a non paying livery? only been with me 4 weeks!! The horse is kept in awful conditions as far as im concerned, and clearly this young mum cannot afford the horse. his stable, before I took over was just thick poo and wee its vile. the poor lad is recovering from colic surgery but travelled to ours from some distance I believe. Within two days she told me via text she wasnt going to pay the rate we had asked for, so as we genuinely felt sorry for her and the horse, we have given her the stable dirt cheap! its never been about money for us, but we dont appreciate people taking the p*ss!! anyway shes been trying to find alternative livery yards but the issue is, they all want a month up front and I cannot say as I blame them!! shes rude, ungrateful and couldnt care less. Ive now banned her from the yard, changed the locks and advised that I will be giving the horse the care he needs until she comes with transport to get him. But shes saying that all the livery yards in our area are full, even though I know this is not true. its caused us a great deal of distress and money. Ive told her she has to be out by 5pm sunday or its full livery, but I know in my heart, she wont pay a penny. a friend of mine has advised me to take ownership of him but I really dont want another horse, got two already lol. Ive been communicating mostly via text with her and ive remained extremely polite even though shes been very cheeky and rude as I dont want things to get nasty.

any help/advice would be great, i just want this over with

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Cant help as I would just get the poor horse signed over to me!! Hope you get it resolved.

 

[indespair]

Cant help as I would just get the poor horse signed over to me!! Hope you get it resolved.

thanks for replying appreciate it hes so adorable, I love him already and he calls to me all the time bless him. so loving. but im trying not to give in lol. but if it comes to it, I guess Ill have to take him xx

 

[PapaverFollis]

Goodness what a nightmare! Could someone like the BHS or World Horse Welfare advise?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Looong thread here, but with a lot of relevant advice and a good outcome .

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/wwyd-livery-issues.795494/

 

[Melody Grey]

I feel for you OP, that’s an awkward situation to be in.

Just a thought- I’m not sure you can take ownership of the horse (even if you actually wanted to!) since you’ve banned her from the yard so can hardly serve an abandonment notice if you’re restricting her access. I think this would be the normal route?

 

[Keira 8888]

What a nightmare. What a selfish woman to put this stress on you not to mention the poor horse ?

Sadly I wouldn’t have a clue what to do here ?

But I can’t help but think that every day he is in YOUR charitable care rather than hers is a good thing.

Good luck xx

 

[chaps89]

Shame he's not long had a major surgery as that would really limit options for selling on if he did get signed over to you.
There are worse fates than PTS in these sorts of situations I'm afraid. Sad, but rescues are overflowing, horse won't know any different and is probably too much of a gamble for anyone to want to take on and better for the horse than the way in which the owner keeps him from the sounds of it. If you think you can get him signed over and cut your losses and have it done or have an open conversation with the owner.

 

[Griffin]

Personally, I would get the horse signed over to me if possible because I couldn't bear him being mistreated by them. However, I am very soft!

If you're a gold member of the BHS, I would call them for legal advice. You cod also contact the BHS and World Horse Welfare from a welfare angle.

 

[AmyMay]

You can’t take ownership as he’s not been abandoned. But as it’s a welfare issue obviously legally and morally you have to step in.

The Dorsettelad thread may be useful, but at this moment you’re situation is different.

I suppose that ultimately you’ll end up in the small claims court when (if) she doesn’t pay up.

Presumably she’s not too skint if the horse has had colic surgery ??‍

 

[EventingMum]

Do you have a livery contract, if so what does it say about non-payment? Personally, I would worry what would happen if she did move his elsewhere as it sounds like you are fond of him already.

 

[Fred66]

I feel for you OP, that’s an awkward situation to be in.

Just a thought- I’m not sure you can take ownership of the horse (even if you actually wanted to!) since you’ve banned her from the yard so can hardly serve an abandonment notice if you’re restricting her access. I think this would be the normal route?

It can be claimed in lieu of unpaid livery rather than abandonment.

Issue the bill and tell them they need to pay in full before collection.

 

[ihatework]

You are caught between a rock and a hard place, I hate people like this.

Minimise cost to you, whilst providing sufficient care to the horse. Put everything in writing. Add up every single cost. Speak to BHS legal helpline. Prepare for small claims court.

In future take a deposit and a month up front before horse sets foot on yard!

 

[blitznbobs]

It can be claimed in lieu of unpaid livery rather than abandonment.

Issue the bill and tell them they need to pay in full before collection.

You can’t do this... you’d have to get a court order to put a lean on a horse like this... I’d say off by Sunday or the rates are going up to £250 a week for full livery... and then small claims straight away for the money that she hasn’t paid.

 

[Shilasdair]

Completely illegal to 'take the horse' - it's theft.
You need to honour your side of the livery contract by allowing her access to care for her horse (and to remove him when she has found somewhere).
Then you need to take her to small claims court for the livery bill - if it's DIY it can't be too much for small claims in a month...

 

[Gingerwitch]

Poor poor horse

 

[Micropony]

I think the livery you are owed could be considered a liquidated sum and you might be able to use the statutory demand route. You need legal advice.

 

[Fred66]

Completely illegal to 'take the horse' - it's theft.
You need to honour your side of the livery contract by allowing her access to care for her horse (and to remove him when she has found somewhere).
Then you need to take her to small claims court for the livery bill - if it's DIY it can't be too much for small claims in a month...

As a livery yard owner then the op has a duty of care in respect of the welfare of the horse. Whilst banning the owner from the yard is not ideal as long as op is not increasing the costs to cover additional care then op is unlikely to be actually acting unlawfully.
OP is also entitled to keep the horse until the debt is repaid. OP can issue written notice demanding settlement and apply to the court for enforcement.

 

[ycbm]

OP is also entitled to keep the horse until the debt is repaid.

Sorry, but unless the contract explicitly states this, they aren't. Legally, you can't just hold on to an asset because a debt has not been paid.

 

[indespair]

Completely illegal to 'take the horse' - it's theft.
You need to honour your side of the livery contract by allowing her access to care for her horse (and to remove him when she has found somewhere).
Then you need to take her to small claims court for the livery bill - if it's DIY it can't be too much for small claims in a month...

It was verbal sadly, I was doing her a favour via a friend. I would allow her access but she doesnt care for the horse properly. leaves him standing in thick poo and wee, thats not care she cant afford to keep him

 

[indespair]

Ill speak to the BHS legal team on monday I dont want her on my land anyway, her attitude is vile.

 

[Shilasdair]

Ill speak to the BHS legal team on monday I dont want her on my land anyway, her attitude is vile.

I appreciate you don't want her at your yard any more - but how can she look after the horse if you don't give her access?
Perhaps you could give her set times to come up (that work with her schedule) and then you can keep an eye on her, and do a quick skip out afterwards if you are concerned.
I do agree you need legal advice - the BHS are always helpful I find.

 

[Fred66]

Sorry, but unless the contract explicitly states this, they aren't. Legally, you can't just hold on to an asset because a debt has not been paid.

Actually you can, the link below is to a solicitors blog.
https://www.luptonfawcett.com/about-us/blog/liens-and-how-you-can-use-them/

Selling the horse might require the op to take the owner to court to enable the legal sale, but the retention of the horse is allowed.

 

[ycbm]

Actually you can, the link below is to a solicitors blog.
https://www.luptonfawcett.com/about-us/blog/liens-and-how-you-can-use-them/

Selling the horse might require the op to take the owner to court to enable the legal sale, but the retention of the horse is allowed.

Maybe. Far from automatic. The site you quote states, my bold

Rather than relying on the common law, the “best” liens (in terms of their enforceability in law), and indeed the right to ultimately sell goods or effects in your possession, are created by way of contract. Ensure that you have comprehensive, robust clauses in your terms and conditions of trade which give you the right not only to exercise the lien for non-payment, but ultimately to sell the goods in your care if payment is not made after sufficient warning.

 

[jkitten]

Okay this is out of left field and might not suit your inclinations at all, BUT: If you did want to try and help the poor horse out of his situation (and the owner agreed to hand him over for a nominal price, taking into account her lack of funds and time, and his inability to be sold at present due to surgery), could you try crowd-funding for his care until he could reasonably be sold on? I for one would happily contribute to something like that, that poor horse having to recover from major surgery in his own filth.

Apologies if this is an unwelcome suggestion or not allowed!

 

[Fred66]

Maybe. Far from automatic. The site you quote states, my bold

Agreed that having an explicit written contract is better, but the OP does have some redress

 

[SO1]

Insurance could have covered it perhaps.

Sounds like she doesn't have the money and never intended to pay the rate you asked her too. Perhaps her situation is a bit desperate.

Have you asked her why she is not paying the agreed rate. I expect the problem is not other yards are full but that she can't afford them and she can't sell the horse as the horse is not in a fit state to sell, yet can't afford to look after the horse. Vet will be very unlikely to pts a horse in this situation just because owner can't afford to keep horse.

I feel sorry for the horse, the owner and you. It is a very sad situation.

[QUOTE="Amymay In A Manger, post: 14485550
Presumably she’s not too skint if the horse has had colic surgery ??‍[/QUOTE]

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

hi all I need some advice here! How do I get rid of a non paying livery? only been with me 4 weeks!! The horse is kept in awful conditions as far as im concerned, and clearly this young mum cannot afford the horse. his stable, before I took over was just thick poo and wee its vile. the poor lad is recovering from colic surgery but travelled to ours from some distance I believe. Within two days she told me via text she wasnt going to pay the rate we had asked for, so as we genuinely felt sorry for her and the horse, we have given her the stable dirt cheap! its never been about money for us, but we dont appreciate people taking the p*ss!! anyway shes been trying to find alternative livery yards but the issue is, they all want a month up front and I cannot say as I blame them!! shes rude, ungrateful and couldnt care less. Ive now banned her from the yard, changed the locks and advised that I will be giving the horse the care he needs until she comes with transport to get him. But shes saying that all the livery yards in our area are full, even though I know this is not true. its caused us a great deal of distress and money. Ive told her she has to be out by 5pm sunday or its full livery, but I know in my heart, she wont pay a penny. a friend of mine has advised me to take ownership of him but I really dont want another horse, got two already lol. Ive been communicating mostly via text with her and ive remained extremely polite even though shes been very cheeky and rude as I dont want things to get nasty.

any help/advice would be great, i just want this over with

IO had a livery like this, they never paid their first months rent, kept saying we will bring it up, the pony weaved like fury. On part livery I was doing the work, then after 6 weeks i said when will you bring rent up, * oh my son will bring it up*Oh we have to go to a funeral so can't sort it until finished . Then I came back early with a hay load, to see them loading pony in trailer.* oh we have to take her to vets for vaccines*. they went and never returned
Found out after that the previous owner was contacted, and I was told, oh they did not buy the pony they stole it. They also had a foal which died and they threw it on a muckhill in Northwood. There are some vile people out there. I have had my fair share of bad livery's and slow paying liveries. Also gone to small claims because of bad payer's. Good luck with this. Speak to Bhs.

We also have a clause which states, if the livery is not paid within 2 months, we reserve the right to recoup the money how we see fit included selling the horse. Or words to that effect

 

[indespair]

Okay this is out of left field and might not suit your inclinations at all, BUT: If you did want to try and help the poor horse out of his situation (and the owner agreed to hand him over for a nominal price, taking into account her lack of funds and time, and his inability to be sold at present due to surgery), could you try crowd-funding for his care until he could reasonably be sold on? I for one would happily contribute to something like that, that poor horse having to recover from major surgery in his own filth.

Apologies if this is an unwelcome suggestion or not allowed!

from what I can gather from friends, first she decided to sell him and wants £2,000! and now ive found out shes advertising him for part loan on social media! the mind boggles! ive now looked after him on full livery for the last two days and not once has she text and asked how he is! she did ask me last night at 6pm if she could come and get him and his things, so I said sure what time is the box coming and she never replied. so god knows! she just lies all the time and I now dont know what to believe in all honesty

 

[indespair]

thanks for the replies guys. ill talk to BHS legal team on monday as I dont know what to believe anymore ive found out shes been bad mouthing us around the local village, flaming cheek! all ive tried to do is help and ive been mugged off. I did message her earlier this morning and just politely asked for an honest answer as to why she wont pay us, got no reply lol what a surprise.