Badger cull - for or against? Please Please watch

I haven't time to watch the vid now, but when I was at uni we studied this. There was no definitive proof that there was a link (at that time at least) between tb in badgers and cows.

I am not opposed to culls and have regularly collected meat off the local deer herd cull. However I don't agree with culling a native species without looking at alternative options (research towards a better vaccine) to protect mainly non-native species... look back in time, how often has this gone wrong, meddling with nature.

(I also come from a farming background having lived and worked on them most of my life)

Pan
 
Alec Swan said:
I cannot see how vaccinating a proportion of the badger population is going to prevent the spread of BTB. Short of completely excavating a sett, I fail to see how all badgers can be accounted for, by vaccination.
Click to expand...

Have a look at the DEFRA vaccine statements over the years. They proposed to vaccinate in all heavily populated and infected areas. They predicted that if just 50% were vaccinated and 50% cows then this would slowly eradicate tb over the years.

They haven't yet put this into effect as they need more years to produce an appropriate vaccine as the current one has the most effectiveness in cows less than six (weeks/days can't remember exactly), none in those infected and makes it harder to spot the disease if then contracted.

To expand on my previous post, I have seen the devastation of a friends cattle all being slaughtered for the thought they might have it, years on there is still no proof and no compensation. My issue isn't with the cull itself, it's with the histories of these things (such as the passenger pigeon) going wrong, it's terrifying what humans can do without it carefully monitored. If there is a cull I believe that people should be licensed to shoot badgers. Those with genuine reason would have no problem. My problem is with the idea it could be a free-for-all.

Pan
 
The stupid thing is is that the outcome that everybody wants is a healthy badger population as well as a healthy cattle industry. If everyone pulled together to deal with the situation it would be resolvable
 
Is the test that they use for btb similar to the Heath test in humans? If so then they may well be killing cattle who have natural immunity to btb.
 
Miss L Toe said:
I did not realise the Protection of Badgers Acts was set up to stop badger baiting, surely this would have been covered under normal cruelty legislation.
I don't "blame" any animal for being opportunist, I just don't want animals which spread diseases to dominate. I once had a "b/f" tell me that "they are all Gods creatures............. Clamidia [STD]. He was not normal.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was specifically so, however, it has certainly helped as a deterrent and for successful prosecution cases. Take away their complete protection status and I do think you are opening doors to more cruelty. No other wild creature we have will provide so much 'sport' and lengthy entertainment against dogs than a Sow Badger protecting her cubs or a big Boar. Their setts are protected, you take that away and you are also taking away the right they have not to be interfered with. You are also possibly taking away the people who spend their time monitoring their setts in higher risk areas.

Of course I am not against control of species of birds or animals that need to be controlled but what it boils down to in most cases is these issues arise when 'we' destroy/change habitats so there is no longer a natural balance, the scales get tipped.
 
this make interesting reading.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvfru/130/130i.pdf

I am against the destruction of any animal in a 'just in case' scenario. I worked with a vet in southern Ireland in the early eighties doing the TB etc testing. The cause of most of the spread was due to unscrupulous cattle dealers from the north sending known positives down to the markets in the south.
Badgers ma bum. :(
 
Fairynuff said:
this make interesting reading.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvfru/130/130i.pdf

I am against the destruction of any animal in a 'just in case' scenario. I worked with a vet in southern Ireland in the early eighties doing the TB etc testing. The cause of most of the spread was due to unscrupulous cattle dealers from the north sending known positives down to the markets in the south.
Badgers ma bum. :(
Click to expand...

If that was the case in Irland in the 80's things have somewhat moved on, Premovement testing now has to be done on all cattle.
I don't see how a badger cull in a hotspot can be 'just in case' , transmission between species is known, who infects who is irrelevant since one species is tested and infectees culled whereas the other is allowed to breed and roam freely amongst domesticated stock and wildlife. The paper you have posted is now 4 yrs old, it actually states a cull could help control the spread, in 2010, 4700 new herds were infected and over 31000 animals culled, each one being someone's livelihood. I find it very hard to find any optimism in the dairy and beef industry, is the answer to allow the badgers free reign? Lose our dairy/beef industry, import all our dairy and beef from countries which will not have our high welfare and hygiene standards. Our countryside will be turned over to arable, hedges scrubbed out to allow for bigger fields etc. it is not a scenario I would like to see. Most farmers have a huge amount of pride, producing food for our country, whereas many urbanites prioritise badgers over their food safety.
http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN06081
Have a read of this paper, please note how the disease is spreading within other species, In 2010, 29 cats were tested positive, think on that when you handle your pets.
 
havent read all the replies so apologies if this is reapeating someone.
I thiught that the 'cull' was not nationwide as many people seem to think but only performed in a confined area to monitor the effects of the cull on btb and then and only then will the results be used to put forward the case for or against a nationwide cull.
Have i got it wrong?
 
Badgers are suffering the consequence of infected cattle being moved around the country, primarily by dealers, I've known cattle go through three or four auctions round the country in a couple of weeks.
Poor bio security by some farmers is what has caused this epidemic.
They should have to pay for vaccines, in my view.
 
Pale rider that just is not the case. Until people face up to the reality that badgers are at least partially responsible for the spread of btb nothing will ever change.
It is irrelevant whether the cattle or the badgers were infected first. If there are infected badgers in the area the odds are the cattle will be infected. Cattle to cattle transfer will occur to as will cattle to badger transfer but for as long as there are infected badgers free to roam our countryside there will be btb in cattle.
 
Pale Rider said:
Badgers are suffering the consequence of infected cattle being moved around the country, primarily by dealers, I've known cattle go through three or four auctions round the country in a couple of weeks.
Poor bio security by some farmers is what has caused this epidemic.
They should have to pay for vaccines, in my view.
Click to expand...

Another one who does not know what he is talking about. I suggest you research animal movement procedure.
 
Well, Alice, I probably have a lot more experience of moving cattle about than you think. This is the cause of the TB epidemic, but, the livestock industry won't accept this as they fear the cost of liability.
 
I really really doubt that is the case pale rider! All cattle are tested prior to moving them and no decent farmer will knowingly move infected cattle!
 
Well, they are now.

TB is well established in the deer population as well as Badgers.

This is far more complicated than just culling.

Farmer's have little or no idea how to solve this, their own suggestions will only compound things.
 
He difference with the deer is that farmers can legally kill them badgers are given a ridiculose amount of protection which IMHO is not doing their welfare any good. Btb or no btb the laws protecting badgers must go
 
Badgers Act is a robust peice of legislation, I remember how much the baiters hated it when it came in. Just because farmers can shoot deer legally means nothing. My neighbour shoots every deer that crosses his land, bucks, hinds and fawns, because they eat his grass, no other reason.
 
If farmers are breeding cows for meat, why are they upset when the cows have to be slaughtered prematurely? Same outcome. Is it money related, because I always thought they were compensated for TB cases?

I love all wildlife, but I don't know why badgers are protected above all other wildlife, especially if they are spreading disease.
 
Obviously not money related they are conpensated believe it or not farmers do take great pride in their animals and it is gutting to loose your best breeding stock to a disease.
 
^^^^ditto.

Also the movement restrictions you get after a reactor can cripple, depending on time of year.

Also you get compensated for what's in front of you, not what the finished animal would have been.
 
The whole TB issue is a complete waste of tax payers money.
People get hung up on mis information. Research shows that fallow deer are bigger vectors of TB than badgers in some areas.
Pasturization of milk has had a far more beneficial effect than attempts to eradicate TB in cattle.
As far as public health issues go trying to eradicate TB in cattle is a waste of money and unnecessary.
 
So because of the EU we are not permitted to vaccinate our cattle;ok,but why not then evolve an oral vaccine ,as the polio vaccine was,so that it really would be easy enough to bait up and feed it to badger setts. Bung it on some peanuts and job done. Culling will just empty out an area for others,possibly infected ,to move in,surely much saner to vaccinate your own local badger population?
Killing infected anything really is archaic these days,when ring vaccination works so well.
 
HH, pedigree cattle are often the result of generations of careful breeding and the hard work of our grandfathers.
There is a huge pride and importance in these animals and it is devastating to lose breeding stock like this.

High in both monetary and sentimental value.

Plus at the end of the day, a farm is a business and a livelihood. I don't think it's fair to be negative about the value if things, when we are trying to make a living, in one of the oldest and IMO best ways of the world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top