Badger Cull Postponed

Thats ok, we'll just keep on culling the cattle then.


Well said. After seeing a hell of a lot of cows going up a ramp every test day I know how I feel about the cull being postponed
 
Devastating for farmers to be loosing cattle to this dreadful disease - of course. Bit there really has to be am alternative to slaughtering our wildlife.

I very much hope that vaccination will now be seriously researched.
 
For those who oppose the cull, having read worryingly distorted claims from pop stars, amongst others, one short question for you;

How would you feel, were the cattle yours, and as you stood and watched them being shot?

I would describe myself as a conservationist, but if I kept cattle, which I don't, our resident badgers would find fresh digs, I can assure you.

Alec.
 
Vaccination has not been tested in cattle, the fact it works in badgers does not mean it will work in cattle and it would take 10 yrs of research before any vaccination programme could be put in place. Vaccinated cattle will test positive for bTB making it impossible to tell if they have been vaccinated or are carrying the disease, and instantly stopping any export trade.
I invite anyone come and chat to my BIL, last autumn he loaded 45 of his 48 cattle in a lorry as they were all reactors. His farm is low intensity, closed herd with no cattle to cattle contact outside the herd. Explain that one.
I suppose the simple thing would be to leave the badgers, the cattle will be culled and we can import our meat and milk from countries with lower welfare standards, foot and mouth, bTB etc.
All will be good until Jo Blog's cat or dog goes down with bTB let alone little Johnny.
 
amymay said:
Devastating for farmers to be loosing cattle to this dreadful disease - of course. Bit there really has to be am alternative to slaughtering our wildlife.

So, we shouldn't cull wildlife that spreads disease, you're ok with rats and mice then or is it ok to kill them?
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It's an interesting point actually jrp, and not one I'd considered.

But a 70% (and now possibly 80%) proposed cull seems to border on an extinction level event, and this can't possibly air well with anyone.
 
Badger numbers have more than tripled so a major reduction in hotspots, even localised exinction would be possible allowing reintroduction from clean areas.
It is very easy to shout the odds when your livlihood is not affected, monetary and emotionally.
 
Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, is this situation not exacerbated by certain farmer/cattle traders moving and selling their cattle which are constantly moved from one area to another for short term economic gains?

I know this was true in the past, not sure if it is still the case!

Perhaps I can be advised if my suggestion is unfounded!

Tony
 
Bad news for cattle, bunny buggers shout louder with little fact, TB must be controlled and the science boffins earn a fortune and fail to understand the disease. We have our test next month and cattle hate it and stresses them out plus extra time and risks to handlers and cattle which sucklers aren't overly handled.
 
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amymay said:
It's an interesting point actually jrp, and not one I'd considered.

But a 70% (and now possibly 80%) proposed cull seems to border on an extinction level event, and this can't possibly air well with anyone.
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What do you think a 100% cattle cull would be then ????????????????????
Believe me it is only a matter of time before a member of the general public is infected with tb from a badger.
 
wildoat said:
Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, is this situation not exacerbated by certain farmer/cattle traders moving and selling their cattle which are constantly moved from one area to another for short term economic gains?

I know this was true in the past, not sure if it is still the case!

Perhaps I can be advised if my suggestion is unfounded!

Tony
Click to expand...

Generally, though not always, the bulk of BTB strikes dairy cattle, as opposed to beef herds, and the bulk of dairy herds are "Closed" herds. "Closed", as in that with the exception of sires, and most of the matings are by AI, there are no outside influences from imported cattle. It's to do with herd health, and it matters.

Cattle movements around the country will not, because they can not, affect those who operate closed herds.

Badgers spread Bovine TB, it's that simple. Those who deny the evidence are doing so because they are following a warped agenda. I wish that it wasn't so, but sadly, it is.

Alec.
 
They won't admit that, if not interested in cull, let's not even test cattle, we must be able to cull badgers which are vicious animals not cuddly pets.
 
had my cattle tested last month, all fine, animal health lady who came to test was invoved in last badger cull down south a few years ago, was saying how many manky animals were found, if the badgers are already sick vacination won't work you have to start with a clean population
 
Pre
Movement testing has to be done unless going to slaughter. http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/tb/premovement/index.
Funnily enough badgers don't have Premovement testing and research has shown that badgers found in and around farm buildings will more often than not be sick. It is easy to say farmers should badger proof their buildings/fields but this is extremely hard and expensive to do as trying to stop a badger is like pushing custard up hill. With farm incomes, especially on beef and dairy farms being very low, often below 10k it's about time someone fought their corner, it is a foul disease in all it infects but managing it by culling only 1 of the carriers is ridiculous.
 
Erm - I assume that you guys complaining about this being stopped have actually read the research. They found that after 5 years of culling the rate of TB went down by a whopping 16% and the rate on neighbouring farms increased due to additional badger movements. In addition this was for trapping and killing, not shooting, which was the proposed method i.e. there is absolutely no evidence of the effectiveness of this. It was only being done as a political gesture by a government that wouldn't know evidence based policy if it bit them on the bum.

Paula
 
As usual, when it comes to contentious issues, the Government pussy foot around, offering placating half measures to both sides, and it achieves nothing.

The shooting of individual badgers wont have any effect on BTb, what so ever, but then Government already know that!! There is only one system which will stand any chance of reducing the infection rate in cattle, and that would be to gas entire setts, killing every animal underground. In BTb hotspots, if 30-40% of setts were gassed, and if there were then a demonstrable reduction in BTb cases, then the answer to the problem has been found. As those areas which have been denuded of badgers, would slowly be re-populated, the regime of awareness and the monitoring of numbers would need to be on-going, with follow up reductions being carried out.

Will it happen? Will it buggery. Our spineless Government is so fearful of those who claim to have an interest in wildlife, those who claim a degree of expertise, but who in reality speak ill-informed and emotive nonsense, that we will still be where we are now in 5 years time. Never will Government come to realise that those who would reduce the population of badgers actually have the animal's interests at heart. A reduction in the badger population would benefit not only those who keep cattle, but the badgers themselves.

Alec.
 
The previous cull was not extensive enough and allowed for too much preturbutation.
So, what is the answer?? We are killing cattle that react then show no clinical signs of the disease pm, but we are allowing infected wildlife free range. Not just badgers but deer, wild boar and other mustelids. Camelids carry it but are not being routinely tested and are moved.
Imagine this scenario, Mary Keen, a top breeder of fantastic sport horses with bloodlines going back generations has a reactor, her other animals cannot be moved off the premises unless for slaughter. 3 months later, a retest, 80% of her stock including in foal mares due to foal within the next month have a reaction.She has not bought in any animals, her mares have been put in foal to her resident stallion or to AI. All off to slaughter, compensation, yes but not at the animals true worth but a generic figure.
How would you feel then, same scenario at your livery yard? The difference of course would be this is your pet, people would soon be looking for where this infection came from and I would put money on that ole brock would be seen in a different light.
The badger population on our farm has increased hugely, we now have parts of fields we cannot put the tractor on as the setts are so big. Whether or not they have bTB i have no idea but with no natural predator i would be delighted to see a decrease in numbers. People still want food and we are losing land and animals because the rural minority have no voice and the generally urban majority are allowed too much of a say.
 
Paulag said:
Erm - I assume that you guys complaining about this being stopped have actually read the research. They found that after 5 years of culling the rate of TB went down by a whopping 16% and the rate on neighbouring farms increased due to additional badger movements. In addition this was for trapping and killing, not shooting, which was the proposed method i.e. there is absolutely no evidence of the effectiveness of this. It was only being done as a political gesture by a government that wouldn't know evidence based policy if it bit them on the bum.

Paula
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The answer is a proper cull not just a few , what is the point of a badger
they are just a pest realy like rats and foxes put a bounty on the buggers, protect our small farmers before they all are forced out of bussiness and replaced with these huge factory farms where the cows never see the light of day and the fields are just massive areas of maze and grass .. This is about the countryside as we know it and our wildlife let the farmers do what they have done for 100s of years manage and keep our wonderfull contryside
yes the goverment is crap they listen to all sorts of presure groups chattering classes and so called pop "stars" and junk science ....
 
This seriously smacks of the politician's syllogism:

We must do something
This is something
Therefore, we must do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician's_syllogism

Although my favourite description from one of the papers yesterday: omnivoreshambles. :)

It's not that I don't sympathise with farmers, of course I do. But you cannot do something just for the sake of it that won't work.

Paula
 
Paulag said:
This seriously smacks of the politician's syllogism:

We must do something
This is something
Therefore, we must do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician's_syllogism

Although my favourite description from one of the papers yesterday: omnivoreshambles. :)

It's not that I don't sympathise with farmers, of course I do. But you cannot do something just for the sake of it that won't work.

ePaula
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yes they did it with climate change !!!! but the TB problem is a fact and its a fact that badgers spread TB simple....
 
Alec Swan said:
Generally, though not always, the bulk of BTB strikes dairy cattle, as opposed to beef herds, and the bulk of dairy herds are "Closed" herds. "Closed", as in that with the exception of sires, and most of the matings are by AI, there are no outside influences from imported cattle. It's to do with herd health, and it matters.

Cattle movements around the country will not, because they can not, affect those who operate closed herds.

Badgers spread Bovine TB, it's that simple. Those who deny the evidence are doing so because they are following a warped agenda. I wish that it wasn't so, but sadly, it is.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Alec,

with respect I never said I was against the cull.
This is a very serious problem, yet another dreadful scenario for our farmers
who have had more than their share of devastation in recent times.
If the cull has been proved to solve the problem then it would be surely impossible for anyone to offer an argument against it.
Farmers really do need the support of the public and the government.
Our country is in such a mess because successive governments rarely do what's right, the politicians generally prefer they to put their careers first rather than doing
what they often know is required, simple as!

Tony
 
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