Badminton Grass Roots

The courses are very long and full up heights at each level for all fences too, unlike anything else you'd come across at BE90/100 generally in BE. I usually walk it while watching the real Badminton, and think that the BE90 looks like a BE100 and the BE00 looks like a novice!

Surely he can't have meant that about all the riders!

As for the dressage scores, some of the pics that went on the website looked like intermediate level horses rather than BE90, really impressive/depressing!
 
Completely agree. The course looks meaty (as usual!) and as above poster said, the dressage is outstanding - the majority of those horses could contest and be competitive in a pure dressage championship (I'd certainly be scars to come across them!)

Having followed Star recently, it's deffo not due to under preparation, she has done everything within her power to get Monty ready so I expect for her to hear something like that would be really disheartening!

Everyone who even GOT there did phenomenally well regardless of how it turned out so well done everyone!! :)
 
I was surprised by how unfit some of the horses (and riders in some cases) looked. Given how much notice you have that you are going to Badminton surely both horse and rider should be super fit and able to cope with the course? We saw quite a few horses looking knackered and riders much the same. I don't do BE, is that something quite common at the lower levels?
 
monkeybum13 said:
I was surprised by how unfit some of the horses (and riders in some cases) looked. Given how much notice you have that you are going to Badminton surely both horse and rider should be super fit and able to cope with the course? We saw quite a few horses looking knackered and riders much the same. I don't do BE, is that something quite common at the lower levels?
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In general, it does happen at BE lower levels, however to get to these championships these competitors have to have done pretty well, and will have put the work in and done the prep.

I haven't done BE for a few years now, but watched the headcam videos they'd put on the website from last year's Grassroots, and my main thought was "crikey its long!". It seemed a long way between fences and its got a few ups and downs in it, combined with some good big fences for those levels. I used to do 90 with my mare and was ready for 100, never really scared by 90 fences, but walking that 90 grassroot course made me go "eek" a few times - there are a lot of things you probably wouldn't find in your general BE90 courses, the big coffin, off the top of my head, was an example.
 
monkeybum13 said:
I was surprised by how unfit some of the horses (and riders in some cases) looked. Given how much notice you have that you are going to Badminton surely both horse and rider should be super fit and able to cope with the course? We saw quite a few horses looking knackered and riders much the same. I don't do BE, is that something quite common at the lower levels?
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Yes and no, although most of the reports are that it is was a true old fashioned galloping course ....sadly these are getting rarer & rarer on the BE Fixture list :(
 
it certainly looks like it was a true test of a good cross country horse judging by the results! which is great to see!
 
glamourpuss said:
Yes and no, although most of the reports are that it is was a true old fashioned galloping course ....sadly these are getting rarer & rarer on the BE Fixture list :(
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Surely if you've qualified for Badminton GR, you wouldn't expect anything BUT an old fashioned galloping course even though the competition idea is in its infancy? Given the location, ground they can use etc? Granted thinking it is far different from riding it BUT the thoughts should still be there and try to up fitness in the mean time?

Just seen some of the photos and just wow - serious competition! Hope all HHOs are ok post stops/falls/etc.
 
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Honey08 said:
The courses are very long and full up heights at each level for all fences too, unlike anything else you'd come across at BE90/100 generally in BE. I usually walk it while watching the real Badminton, and think that the BE90 looks like a BE100 and the BE00 looks like a novice!

Surely he can't have meant that about all the riders!

As for the dressage scores, some of the pics that went on the website looked like intermediate level horses rather than BE90, really impressive/depressing!
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I haven't seen any pictures, but you must have a horse with some serious talent and be a bloody good rider to be pulling those sorts of scores out the bag at badminton!!!
 
...but there's so many factors than can also effect a horses 'fitness' at a competition.
- distance travelled to the event
- being stabling away & stressed
- the atmosphere
Add these into the galloping course & it can really make a horse very tired even if the owner/rider has worked meticulously on fitness.
 
wench said:
I haven't seen any pictures, but you must have a horse with some serious talent and be a bloody good rider to be pulling those sorts of scores out the bag at badminton!!!
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The winner of the BE90 has been placed at BD Petplan finals in Elementary so yes, serious dressage talent!
 
glamourpuss said:
...but there's so many factors than can also effect a horses 'fitness' at a competition.
- distance travelled to the event
- being stabling away & stressed
- the atmosphere
Add these into the galloping course & it can really make a horse very tired even if the owner/rider has worked meticulously on fitness.
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Totally agree. I'd be interested to hear more from DD and what other commentary was said :)
 
glamourpuss said:
...but there's so many factors than can also effect a horses 'fitness' at a competition.
- distance travelled to the event
- being stabling away & stressed
- the atmosphere
Add these into the galloping course & it can really make a horse very tired even if the owner/rider has worked meticulously on fitness.
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It is also still early in the year for genuine amateur owners to be able to be fully prepared, this winter was exceptionally wet, some early events that may have been used in preparation were cancelled, which may have left a few horses a bit lacking in fitness however hard the riders have tried to get things right it can be hard to judge how fit the horse is and how it will handle all the extras involved.

The winner of the 90 is 15, has been eventing for years and probably coped with the whole situation better than a younger combination, not wanting to take anything away from their achievement but it shows the value of a really experienced horse, they can stay focused through 3 phases, 18 is a brilliant dressage score at any event it would be hard to beat.
 
wench said:
Interesting... Would you class that as a "grassroots" horse/rider combination?
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It depends if the horse is it an equal level with its jumping really. It could be a dressage horse turned eventer, and be at a lower level in SJ and XC so then yes, I would still class it as "grassroots".
 
wench said:
Interesting... Would you class that as a "grassroots" horse/rider combination?
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Yes, horse & rider fit the qualifying criteria.

I know someone who produces event horses to sell. It used to be that horses that had Novice points got the best prices on the amateur market but now she doesn't even dare run them novice. She recently sold a 'grassroots' horse (placings & a win at 90, 2 wins at 100, excellent winnings BD) for £20,000 & it was a very quick & easy sale!
It's what people want now.
 
Have a look at this Hat Cam video of last years winner of the BE100 section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L8sK8-OLfI

It's flippin' massive! The lady even says "oh my god that was big" about a brush fence in the latter part of the course and again over a more solid fence.

There is a big atmosphere at Grassroots, the fences are exceptionally well dressed making them very colourful and unique in shape and style compared to other places and the ground at Badminton is very challenging with lots of undulations. I don't think anyone can truly prepare 100% for Badminton Grassroots but I am damn sure they all do their very best with what is available. I think that was a rather unjust comment made from whoever was commentating. The weather has been dreadful for so many over the past 6 months, certainly here in the South West you struggled to even hack out let alone go XC schooling!

I am so sorry for Star, glad they are both OK, very brave to get back on and finish.

Why is BE100 different to higher levels in that you can fall off but still carry on and not get eliminated?
 
Dunlin said:
Have a look at this Hat Cam video of last years winner of the BE100 section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L8sK8-OLfI

It's flippin' massive! The lady even says "oh my god that was big" about a brush fence in the latter part of the course and again over a more solid fence.


I am so sorry for Star, glad they are both OK, very brave to get back on and finish.

Why is BE100 different to higher levels in that you can fall off but still carry on and not get eliminated?
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All things that I thought.

I think it was a pretty rude comment for the commentator to make all in all. it would have been more tactful to say lots of horses looking tired rather than unprepared.
 
glamourpuss said:
Yes, horse & rider fit the qualifying criteria.

I know someone who produces event horses to sell. It used to be that horses that had Novice points got the best prices on the amateur market but now she doesn't even dare run them novice. She recently sold a 'grassroots' horse (placings & a win at 90, 2 wins at 100, excellent winnings BD) for £20,000 & it was a very quick & easy sale!
It's what people want now.
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Hmmm interesting point, has the introduction of foundation points, and the GR champs introduced an "elite" class of GR rider, whom maybe instead of moving up to novice etc, are more likely to stay at lower levels to get more FP's and to GR champs?
 
Definitely Wench. From what I read on here last year, a lot of people who had qualified at BE90 were ready to go to Novice level by the end of the year they'd qualified, but couldn't or they'd lose their grass roots place the following spring... Some of them came across as bored to bits of BE90/100 by the time the grassroots came round.
 
The other reason for not taking a horse above BE90/100 is that it can't do lower level pc/rc teams (I think) so is harder to sell as a schoolmaster for a pc horse... Its almost worth more on the brink of getting points at novice than it is with points, as not everyone who is in the buyers market is brave enough to tackle bigger tracks but would love something that will take them out and win at lower level..
 
teapot said:
I think it's the FEI ruling of one fall and you're out. Whereas GR is still under BE? Could be wrong.
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That was the thought that occurred to me too.

Going back to the preperation issue, it must be quite a hard thing to prepare for. Limited time to get the horse fit, even if you haven't had an awful winter, possibly complacent about the level if you're looking to move up and maybe the events available as prep runs aren't that suitable? Isn't there some feeling that the early season events tend to be easier than those that come later. Plus the whole issue of how the horse will react to the atmosphere/being away overnight.
 
Yes.. She had to meet the criteria to be able to compete there.

People like Star, the lady that won the 90 and myself, just because we can get to a pure dressage championship level doesn't mean the rest is perfect and up to the same standard. guess the equivalent of Elementary is novice BE(?) now I can get a good score in an elementary but I can't jump 90cm for toffee let alone 110cm! and I suspect this is the case with the 90 winner. So yes, I would class her as a GR rider.

Easy to judge from an outsiders perspective but everyone has reasons for doing what they do, it's also easy to say 'well they clearly should be doing Novice' like I wanted to at those in the top 4 of the national class I was in, thinking they should be in at least elementary not prelim BUT without them the winner would have been on 66% and that doesn't represent a 'national championship' score from my point of view. It's a competition and as long as everyone is within the rules there's no harm done :)

Again congratulations to Zoe & Dippy, amazing achievement to win and get such a fantastic dressage score - things I can only dream of! I look forward to Star's report & any others that were competing :)
 
wench said:
Hmmm interesting point, has the introduction of foundation points, and the GR champs introduced an "elite" class of GR rider, whom maybe instead of moving up to novice etc, are more likely to stay at lower levels to get more FP's and to GR champs?
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Without a doubt!
 
I think it boils down to the difference of between 'competing at' and 'competitive at'. In order to be competitive at GR, you are going to need to be competitive at a higher level than 90/100. It doesn't mean they aren't GR riders!
 
Ellie2893 said:
Again congratulations to Zoe & Dippy, amazing achievement to win and get such a fantastic dressage score - things I can only dream of! I look forward to Star's report & any others that were competing :)
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Huge congratulations, what an amazing score. She must be on cloud 9!
 
Its interesting reading the records of the horses that did well. The winners of the 90 haven't done a BE bigger than 90 since 2010 and have had very few outings each year. The second placed horse is only 6, started BE last season and has only done one BE100. The horses in 4th and 9th also only started BE last year.

I wonder if the 100 is harder to prepare for, to get in enough experience to be able to run well round a championship track without accumulating points at Novice (I'm not sure what the exact eligibility criteria are?)
 
Apologies for putting the cart before the horse yesterday afternoon, Star. The scoreboard was not at all clear on who had completed and who had not run across country, and of course with the XC running an hour late, I was well off target.
Still an amazing achievement to compete there and I hope neither Monty or you have any lasting damage done and that you can enjoy the rest of the week living in the lorry!
 
I am personally thrilled it was not just a dressage competition. Long may this remain that its a proper championship cross country where people can move up in the placings. A friend came 9th in the 100. Moved up 22 places after dressage with a clear Sj to about 12th and then finished 9th on a clear xc. To me this is how it should be weighted.

Its a tricky balance to get a championship course right but I feel that Badminton has got it right. Everyone was safe and sound even if the result was disappointing. I would be really sad if they dumbed it down as it would just make it a dressage competition.
 
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