Badminton Grass Roots

[elliefiz]

This has just made me smile a lot! Thank you so much He is fan-blimmin-tastic! He gave me such a great ride - so proud of him!!

We have seen the odd coffin at BE90 and BE100 but they tend to be either just rail to ditch, or ditch to rail. You barely get all 3 elements together, and they are nearly always on flat ground, with more than 1 stride between and a smallish ditch. So I think the combination of the 1 stride distance, big spooky ditch and undulations made it a bit overwhelming for him and he just needed a bit of time to work the question out. Interestingly it reminds me of the concepts Eric Smiley was talking about the IEF when training young horses - he talked at length about how you should introduce "surprises" to the young horses so that they get used to reacting quickly and working out problems for themselves. Definitely food for thought!!

Well you should be super proud, you gave him what looked like a great ride and the coffin took him completely by surprise. It was spooky because it was so sloping- what a brave boy he was when you re presented, and it made me laugh hearing you shout go on I don't think I would have found my brave pants as quickly as you did, you were back on and over it straight away!

 

[EveningStar]

Thanks for the hat cam vid Lex - I really do adore Billy and can't wait to see your full report.
I'm vastly under qualified to comment but the course looks really tough - lots of skinnies and technical questions. You seemed to answer every other question with ease and its a real shame you fell. Love that you used the fence as a mounting block!

Well done to you & Star and everyone else who qualified - no mean feat in itself. I don't think anyone here could possibly believe you were underprepared and it is really unfortunate when it is criticisms that make the biggest impression rather than the praise you all deserve

 

[ester]

I wasn't their on grassroots day but heard all about the coffin and walked it. I was surprised that when it is so hard to get through the RF to qualify that the XC caused so many issues but I suppose that is explained by the RF being run over more 'standard' courses - perhaps the XC at the RF should be beefier than it currently is and not be a dressage competition?

On walking it (it was the other way round last year I think so two strides to the ditch) I figured that something about the line must have looked confusing for the horses to work out - because of the drop the ditch looked smaller than it was from the rail and the first rail wasn't overly big (85 cm from my Ester's hip measuring tool/would I jump that on Frank measuring tool) so I figured it must just have been difficult for the horses to read, particularly when they wouldn't have seen that sort of question previously.

 

[Fanatical]

I think there are always fences on the course at the Grassroots champs that cause issues. But I think you can only expect that at a championships.

The coffin has been there for at least 4 years. In 2011 it also caused a lot of trouble, running in the same direction as this year. However in 2011 instead of the rails, they had pretty up-to-height hedges, so the horses definitely didn't see the ditch until the last minute.

Last year at the water they had the 'A' element directly into the water. Of course, this also caused carnage - you don't normally get a direct jump into water until Novice level (except maybe a step at PN).

It will be interesting to see what changes they make next year as the coffin was the same this year, as last year, just the other way round, so I would say the fact that you landed on a slope after the first rail, made the difference. They set the fences in front of the water back again this year so they clearly acted on last years carnage.

At the end of the day, I'm not against setting the men from the boys, but it'd be nice if they gave options to those that have a problem, just so they can get round and complete. As there never has been many alternatives on the grassroots champs course.

Huge congratulations to both lex and Star for completing. With or without issues, its a fantastic achievement to even get there, never mind complete. And to me hopping back on and completing after a fall is no mean feat!

 

[ester]

Yes, I did watch the water last year cause a lot of issues - interesting re. the 2011 set up of it.

 

[glamourpuss]

Regarding the coffin. There is one unaffiliated event in this area that has a proper old fashioned coffin. It's rails, 2 strides down a steep slop, ditch, 2 strides up a steep slopes then rails. It's also set under trees.
The course isn't open for schooling only for this one event once a year. I do everything in my power to make it purely to give my horses the experience of a proper old fashioned coffin because they are so rare!

 

[lex2501]

The coffin has been there for at least 4 years. In 2011 it also caused a lot of trouble, running in the same direction as this year. However in 2011 instead of the rails, they had pretty up-to-height hedges, so the horses definitely didn't see the ditch until the last minute.

I would have preferred up to height hedges as they would allow you to attack more as they are forgiving. Upright rails demand that coffin canter - and I guess that highlighted my weakness in that mine perhaps wasn't powerful enough as we have never really needed it before around the standard BE90 and BE100 tracks.

 

[EstherYoung]

As we say in endurance, to finish is to win.You both did bliddy well and I take my hat off to you. So, you've got some learning points, but heck, if you'd have won it you would have still had learning points. It's how we all get better, by learning.

 

[Fanatical]

I would have preferred up to height hedges as they would allow you to attack more as they are forgiving. Upright rails demand that coffin canter - and I guess that highlighted my weakness in that mine perhaps wasn't powerful enough as we have never really needed it before around the standard BE90 and BE100 tracks.

I think its a fine line really and at the end of the day the horse and rider are a team - or should be! lol
In 2011, plenty of people were attacking, and plenty were stopping. I think unless the horse is uber experienced at that type of fence, when the ditch suddenly comes upon them as a suprise, they will prop or stop for a look, no matter how well you ride the fence.

I am annoyed at the reports that the commentator suggested that competitors were not prepared enough as in my eyes, people make a huge effort on the run up to such a prestigious competition. I think it is more that the Grassroots course asks horses and riders new questions which they have not tackled in the process of qualifying. Plus the addition of crowds around fences gives horses a lot more to look at - and that's something you can't really aqaint a horse to if you are competing at Grassroots level.

 

[TarrSteps]

This has just made me smile a lot! Thank you so much He is fan-blimmin-tastic! He gave me such a great ride - so proud of him!!

We have seen the odd coffin at BE90 and BE100 but they tend to be either just rail to ditch, or ditch to rail. You barely get all 3 elements together, and they are nearly always on flat ground, with more than 1 stride between and a smallish ditch. So I think the combination of the 1 stride distance, big spooky ditch and undulations made it a bit overwhelming for him and he just needed a bit of time to work the question out. Interestingly it reminds me of the concepts Eric Smiley was talking about the IEF when training young horses - he talked at length about how you should introduce "surprises" to the young horses so that they get used to reacting quickly and working out problems for themselves. Definitely food for thought!!

Definitely. I'm a huge believer in teaching horses to 'think with their feet' and I think this is actually a skill that's diminishing the general population now so many horses spend their lives in very proscribed circumstances. It doesn't necessarily follow that every horse will develop it with competition oriented training. I find it's often a missing piece of the puzzle in horses with hacking issues, too, and even in loading problems. I can quite often work with a dodgy loader and tell people where they might see apparently unrelated issues in their other work, especially at speed.

 

[wench]

Definitely. I'm a huge believer in teaching horses to 'think with their feet' and I think this is actually a skill that's diminishing the general population now so many horses spend their lives in very proscribed circumstances. It doesn't necessarily follow that every horse will develop it with competition oriented training. I find it's often a missing piece of the puzzle in horses with hacking issues, too, and even in loading problems. I can quite often work with a dodgy loader and tell people where they might see apparently unrelated issues in their other work, especially at speed.

I've previously had a horse with problems. Speak to people for advice - it's two or three sets of different problems. I insisted that the behaviour in different circumstances was in fact related, and had the same root cause. Nope it doesnt.

Guess what, speak to a horse behviourist/whisperer, and they agreed with me.

 

[charlimouse]

I did the BE90 Grassroots in 2011. As far as the coffin is concerned in 2011 it was certainly the bogey fence (everything else was pretty straight forwards), but was quite a different question to the 2014 version. In 2011 you jumped a table to open the horse up (similar to 2014 by the looks of it), before jumping in to the coffin over a full up hedge.

You landed just on the flat, then it was 2 strides down hill to the ditch.

You had to put in a slight left bend to jump a pretty harshly angled full up hedge on the way out, 3 strides after the ditch.

It certainly was a different question to the one posed in 2014 (which I did walk). I think both the 2011 and 2014 were fair for a Championship course, however I will admit it came as a bit of a shock when I walked the 2011 version, wondering what on earth my horse would think of it! The 2014 version probably required a more accurate approach due to the upright rails, with the 2011 hedge it was a little more forgiving if you didn't have the coffin canter.

I would love to see the regional finals have a beefed up XC course compared to a normal class at the level. I do think the RFs end up being a dressage competition, with one of our local RFs being held around a course which is considered a first timers course at every level it runs at. The only reason I qualified in 2011 was due to the RF being held in atrocious weather and ground conditions my TB managed to jump clear XC with relatively few time penalties (the event was abandoned after the RF finished). I was last after dressage, but pulled myself up to 4th to qualify, purely on jumping performance. But in normal circumstances I wouldn't have qualified, as we were out of the equation after the dressage.

Massive well done to all who made it to Badminton and completed. It is an amazing experience, I was so jealous of you all last Wednesday whilst following the updates. There is no better feeling than galloping away from the water towards Badminton house!