Barefoot completely out of ideas

ktj1891

ktj1891

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 March 2010
Messages
1,584
Visit site
My lad has been barefoot nearly two years now and he is still uncomfortable over any stoney/ less than smooth ground.

I have tried everything I can and nothing seems to work and I have no definite idea of why he is so sore.

I want to ride my horse and not have nothing to ride months on end where he cant do anything because he is so sore.

My idea is to shoe him in the spring through summer and back off again through winter.

I know this is very vague so if you have any questions ask me but I cant write everything down as I would be here all year.

I just feel the reason for going barefoot is to have a happier healthier horse, and he has never been that since he has been barefoot because nothing I do seems to get him to a completely sound healthy state.
 
He wears boots hacking but he is even sore bringing in and turning out over stones. Plus my yard area is stoney.

He is on copra, linseed and equivita, adlib meadow hay and turned out 24/7 on grass track. Although since start of this week he is being kept on the stable yard with soaked hay. Doubt he has ems he's a poor doer ex racer. Not sure on cushings. What do you mean what grazing is the yard on? It's ex deer farm is all I know.
 
If BF does not work for you then try shoes no one can say you have not given it a try
Giving a shoeing break within every year and see how you go .
 
My vet isn't barefoot pro and she's previously told me to show when I first took them off. I don't use a farrier I use a trimmer and again she obviously wants me stay barefoot. All I know is I want to be able to ride and have a happy sound horse.
 
Can you post photos, side on and sole.
Is the horse heel first landing and walking out on tarmac.
Do you do much on tarmac to self-rasp the feet.
Is the work regime on hard surfaces as well as soft. If only ever on soft surfaces it will not help.
What happens in winter when on soaked hay with minerals?
How much MgO is has getting, how much minerals, is it a mineral for barefoot horses.
Have you read the key blogs on Rockley?
If the trimmer has the best welfare of the horse at heart she will not want horse to suffer, what is her advice, and just as importantly have you taken it in the past, as she will give up advising if repeatedly ignored [not saying you do this, but some do].
 
Last edited:
ktj1891 said:
My vet isn't barefoot pro and she's previously told me to show when I first took them off. I don't use a farrier I use a trimmer and again she obviously wants me stay barefoot. All I know is I want to be able to ride and have a happy sound horse.
Click to expand...
The advice to ask vet is to think about other problems rather than advice on barefooting.
What did your vet say when you took them off?
 
Can't really tell if he definitely lands heel first I can only really see if going downhill. He doesn't really self rasp as I only ride him completely barefoot to cool him down after a schooling session- only on the smooth Tarmac. For all other hacking he wears boots and pads. He's fine in the school, grass and smooth Tarmac it's only over stones. He does a variety of work in the school, grass and hacking.

In winter even though he's in the whole paddock rather than track he copes better with his feet. His hay isn't soaked in winter just wetted.

Read all rockley stuff and everything barefoot I just can't see to get it right.

I will post photos of his feet later hopefully. Someone suggested keeping him off grass 100% for a while and cutting his feed.

If i do this how long should I do it for? I will keep him on my stoney yard should I boot him? He does have soft spots on his soles at the apex of his frogs.
 
I am guessing here that the soles are thin and lack concavity, so a full on discussion with one of the specialist companies, Forageplus, Progressive Earth or the Equimins nutritionist [Matt?].
I would buy a months supply of Pro Hoof and also some MgO, calulate exactly how much magnesium he is getting now, if less than 10mg per day, increase it to that level, and keep increasing daily.
The grass which is greenest has most sugars and least Magnesium: spring and autumn.
If you want to trial for reduction of sugars and increase of fibre, have him stabled on soaked hay for six hours per day, do not graze the morning grass or frosted grass or lush green grass.
If you can walk in hand every day for 30 minutes on tarmac for 30 days, I think you will soon find that he will improve, you should be able to tell if he is striding out happliy and if he is landing heel first, but ask someone to walk him past you on the level. This is the sort of thing your trimmer should be doing with you. In fact you want to get him self trimming, self balancing, self carriage.
You say you have done everything, if so use a different type of shoe or put steel shoes on, I don't want to critcise, but if he is so bad he can't be ridden for months on end, I would find this unacceptable but would also think there is something very wrong, and needs a vet who is able to discuss feet with you. If the only thing he can say is put shoes on, then I would ask why. There are no horses born with steel shoes, and few are shod before riding.
Ask a good farrier to come and discuss feet with you, pay him for his time, ask him to discuss your horse's feet.
Use boots when taking him to the field.
No pony nuts/sugar/starchy feeds/molasses/lickits/carrots etc etc.
 
Last edited:
My diet for your horse, weighing in at 500kgs.

Petscoop or more of soaked quickbeet, lots more in winter, if underweight replace with copra.
50gms micronised linseed increase to 200gms by xmas, do not wait till he loses condition
35 gms mineral for barefoot [includes MgO 10gms]
25gms salt, not pink salt which has iron in it.
Petscoop non molassed chaff with a few herbs for taste and texture.
Ad lib soaked haylage or hay.
Avoid alfalfa, avoid molasses, sugars & cereals esp barley and wheatfeed rubbish, no bagged feeds.
 
I had another look at your diet and recommend you change minerals, purely because this one is not working for you: make a spreadsheet with all the individual minerals he is getting, and either ask another company for advice, or find one that is different, or get analysis done [forageplus], I am not sure if forage or soils should be analysed, but this is going to be a more scientific approach.

Are there any known unusual soils in your area, certain areas of the country have deficiencies and imbalances. Ask a local sheep/cattle farmer if YO is not forthcoming.
Even if you shoe, you should still want to have his diet correct, but it is strange if the other horses on the yard are doing well, are any of them barefoot?
 
Last edited:
The fact he does better in the winter suggests that grass is part of the problem. I have an ex rockley horse and am in touch with others so know some of the trials they go through with their horses. Some have seen massive differences by moving yards for good and bad. There is nothing obvious you can see by looking at grass but some it better than other.

The thing with tracks is that you can end up with the horse on short overgrazed stressed grass which is problematic. One friend had real problems as the yard expanded and the fields were really short stressed overgrazed. She moved and is doing much better.

Look at the hay, if something is wrong there soaking won't necessary fix it. Someone else I know found success by switching from meadow hay (soaked) (which can vary massively) to bagged Timothy Haylage.

While feed is important, fiddling with 500g of feed is nothing against the 15kg of forage they may be getting.


The one thing you could try if possible is mineral balancing your grazing. If there is a huge imbalance and it could be that balancing that out will help. You would get advice about the best feed for your horse in your environment.


I think your options are

1) Mineral balance
2) Look at forage note this may not be fixable on your current yard
3) Shoe
4) Accept Boots are part of your routine for the present at least.

ETA just because someone in your area has one analysis done, don't trust it. I moved less than a mile down the road, got a new analysis done and found some huge differences that completely changed minerals I was feeding.
 
Bonkers2 said:
There might be something wrong with this horse, so it is important to find out.
I am pretty unconvinced by the barefoot trimmer as she should have covered all this, but we only have OPs viewpoint, not that of the trimmer.
Click to expand...

Of course the horse is in less than optimal health .
Shoes may well be the answer to managing that .
 
Bonkers2 said:
I am guessing here that the soles are thin and lack concavity, so a full on discussion with one of the specialist companies, Forageplus, Progressive Earth or the Equimins nutritionist [Matt?].
I would buy a months supply of Pro Hoof and also some MgO, calulate exactly how much magnesium he is getting now, if less than 10mg per day, increase it to that level, and keep increasing daily.
The grass which is greenest has most sugars and least Magnesium: spring and autumn.
If you want to trial for reduction of sugars and increase of fibre, have him stabled on soaked hay for six hours per day, do not graze the morning grass or frosted grass or lush green grass.
If you can walk in hand every day for 30 minutes on tarmac for 30 days, I think you will soon find that he will improve, you should be able to tell if he is striding out happliy and if he is landing heel first, but ask someone to walk him past you on the level. This is the sort of thing your trimmer should be doing with you. In fact you want to get him self trimming, self balancing, self carriage.
You say you have done everything, if so use a different type of shoe or put steel shoes on, I don't want to critcise, but if he is so bad he can't be ridden for months on end, I would find this unacceptable but would also think there is something very wrong, and needs a vet who is able to discuss feet with you. If the only thing he can say is put shoes on, then I would ask why. There are no horses born with steel shoes, and few are shod before riding.
Ask a good farrier to come and discuss feet with you, pay him for his time, ask him to discuss your horse's feet.
Use boots when taking him to the field.
No pony nuts/sugar/starchy feeds/molasses/lickits/carrots etc etc.
Click to expand...

He's been in fp balancer before no difference in sensitivity. He's on equivita which has 12g mag ox but I've now started adding an extra 50ml scoop. I'm going to do a trial keeping him in for a week on soaked hay but not sure if I should feed don't really want to drop the balancers. I could give linseed and healthy herbal chaff? Should I see an improvement in this time?
 
Bonkers2 said:
I had another look at your diet and recommend you change minerals, purely because this one is not working for you: make a spreadsheet with all the individual minerals he is getting, and either ask another company for advice, or find one that is different, or get analysis done [forageplus], I am not sure if forage or soils should be analysed, but this is going to be a more scientific approach.

Are there any known unusual soils in your area, certain areas of the country have deficiencies and imbalances. Ask a local sheep/cattle farmer if YO is not forthcoming.
Even if you shoe, you should still want to have his diet correct, but it is strange if the other horses on the yard are doing well, are any of them barefoot?
Click to expand...

I've only just put him in equivita the one with vit e and mycosorb he's on his first tub.
There are 7 other horses on my yard that are barefoot and all but 1 of them is just conventionally kept. None of them have problems but then none of them are thoroughbred ex racers.
 
ktj1891 said:
I've only just put him in equivita the one with vit e and mycosorb he's on his first tub.
There are 7 other horses on my yard that are barefoot and all but 1 of them is just conventionally kept. None of them have problems but then none of them are thoroughbred ex racers.
Click to expand...
I would aim for self trimming, if he is only ever on soft ground he will not be able to self trim.
I thought micronised linseed has vit E.
I would phone previous supplier and ask why diet did not work.
I can t see feet but I would probably get a good farrier to balance them, and shoe.
 
Last edited:
ktj1891 said:
I've only just put him in equivita the one with vit e and mycosorb he's on his first tub.
There are 7 other horses on my yard that are barefoot and all but 1 of them is just conventionally kept. None of them have problems but then none of them are thoroughbred ex racers.
Click to expand...

I am a barefoot friendly farrier. In my experience what you are going through is a part of the normal balance of barefoot/shod horses. Around 60% of all the horses I deal with are barefoot (my own included) a further 20% are only shod in front, but the remainder really cannot get by without shoes. So if there are 8 horses in your yard, its likely that one will need shoes, unfortunately, its yours.

All horses feet are not the same, and despite what the die-hard barefooters might say. And the fact is, you have a horse that you cannot ride because his feet are so sore. Whats the point of having a horse you cant use? Im not saying that shoes are the definite answer, they are not without drawbacks, but neither are they the spawn of the devil as some might have you believe. In the real world, some horses do need shoes.
 
Graeme Burt farrier said:
I am a barefoot friendly farrier. In my experience what you are going through is a part of the normal balance of barefoot/shod horses. Around 60% of all the horses I deal with are barefoot (my own included) a further 20% are only shod in front, but the remainder really cannot get by without shoes. So if there are 8 horses in your yard, its likely that one will need shoes, unfortunately, its yours.

All horses feet are not the same, and despite what the die-hard barefooters might say. And the fact is, you have a horse that you cannot ride because his feet are so sore. Whats the point of having a horse you cant use? Im not saying that shoes are the definite answer, they are not without drawbacks, but neither are they the spawn of the devil as some might have you believe. In the real world, some horses do need shoes.
Click to expand...

A very pragmatic answer! :)

OP... you may aspire to barefoot and my goodness, you have given it a try BUT if it is not for your horse why keep pushing him to something that he is not?? You need to think short term welfare as well as longer term, in my opinion.
 
ktj1891 said:
H I'm going to do a trial keeping him in for a week on soaked hay but not sure if I should feed don't really want to drop the balancers. I could give linseed and healthy herbal chaff? Should I see an improvement in this time?
Click to expand...

I think it would be useful for your own peace of mind to know if grass is a factor so keeping him off would let you test that and I would expect some improvement in a week unless your hay is especially rich. The balancer I would expect to see in the new hoof growth so that would take more time. However if it is the grass, what can you realistically do? It a tricky situation.
 
Graeme Burt farrier said:
I am a barefoot friendly farrier. In my experience what you are going through is a part of the normal balance of barefoot/shod horses. Around 60% of all the horses I deal with are barefoot (my own included) a further 20% are only shod in front, but the remainder really cannot get by without shoes. So if there are 8 horses in your yard, its likely that one will need shoes, unfortunately, its yours.

All horses feet are not the same, and despite what the die-hard barefooters might say. And the fact is, you have a horse that you cannot ride because his feet are so sore. Whats the point of having a horse you cant use? Im not saying that shoes are the definite answer, they are not without drawbacks, but neither are they the spawn of the devil as some might have you believe. In the real world, some horses do need shoes.
Click to expand...

This is what I have been started to think more and more this year. However, when I try and make the point online as you have stated above and that I have him to ride I get made out to be the worst person ever for thinking of shoeing my horse. Just to add he was never lame is shoes I decide to take them off to improve the condition of his feet as they were so deformed from being shod probably since he was 18 months.

If it turns out it is completely the grass or sugars in the hay causing his sensitivity I have no choice but to shoe as I cannot keep him off grass 24/7. My idea being is that I could shoe him in spring through summer and then back off for autumn and winter. I would also only want to but front shoes on.
 
criso said:
I think it would be useful for your own peace of mind to know if grass is a factor so keeping him off would let you test that and I would expect some improvement in a week unless your hay is especially rich. The balancer I would expect to see in the new hoof growth so that would take more time. However if it is the grass, what can you realistically do? It a tricky situation.
Click to expand...

I have kept him in during the day all last week on my stable yard which is made up of tarmac stones, he was pretty sore on them and since Saturday he has been kept in 24/7. I am feeding him hay and his feed atm, if no improvement next week I will soak hay and feed and again if no improvement after that I will remove feed for a week... if still no improvement I don't know what to do!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top