Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I think your plan is good .
I hope you hacking and having fun soon .
I hope you hacking and having fun soon .
Barefoot completely out of ideas
- Thread starter ktj1891
- Start date
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Depending on the set up having a horse completely off the grass in order that in can remain barefoot doesn't sit completely right with me tbh. I remember your previous posts and don't think any of the options are bad ones tbh but if he is continually struggling on the yard set up shoes for part of the year might well be the best option (though with a farrier who understands the barefoot concept and won't go removing too much frog etc in that time).
GS I know you do that with one of yours that hunts? When they come off again is he footy for a bit then? and do you work him or is he on hols?
GS I know you do that with one of yours that hunts? When they come off again is he footy for a bit then? and do you work him or is he on hols?
Wagtail
Horse servant
I was hoping to keep my mare barefoot. However, I am currently in the process of breaking her in and have noticed she is very sore over stones. She doesn't have the best of feet being half TB and she has a crack that has developed up the front of one which the farrier attempted to stem by burning a horizontal hole across the top, but it has continued to split. Therefore, reluctantly, I have decided to put front shoes on her as I don't want anything causing her pain whilst I am breaking her in. Just hope she isn't too frightened by the smoke.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
The only other thing you can do is try a different source of hay. As i said I know some people have found even soaking doesn't fix their hay, tried Timothy haylage and saw an improvement. That made a bigger difference than feed.
However that knowledge doesn't necessarily solve your situation as most of us don't have unlimited access to perfect grass and hay, which leaves you trying to make him more comfortable with boots or shoes.
ktj1891
Well-Known Member
I am now using 2 different suppliers of hay. I don't think its going to make a massive difference tbh and I could be searching for ages trying to trial and error different hay which would be very time consuming and expensive. I think I have made my mind up and for now I just need to get him comfortable through winter (he generally does improve) and look to shoe from spring onwards next year. I have also been out competing a lot more this year in ODE and finding he is slipping a lot in his boots which is making things dangerous which is another reason I have considered shoeing for next year.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Sounds like a plan. Have to say I wouldn't be confident eventing in boots. I use them as a temporary measure on one of my tbs who is coming back into work bit only on 2 stony bridlepaths. Wouldn't feel safe on grass. I don't think they are even allowed in BE.
shannonandtay
Well-Known Member
We shoe the fronts in summer when pony is in more work and take off in winter and although I don't know anyone else who does this, it works for us. I'm on a livery yard so restricted to how I may do things and the type of hay etc than if I had my own place so don't feel we have been able to stay barefoot permanently also pony doesn't like boots so that of course doesn't help.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
They stops hunting mid march and their shoes come off and they has a break of about eight weeks then we start them again .
Tats will just go straight back to work he's very very easy his feet grow a slightly funky shape but he's always sound and would never need shoes if he did not hunt long days and sometimes twice a week.
Fatty is more difficult but he gets easier every year but he's comfortable on holiday from the day the shoes come off.
J the TB is problematic he's not blessed in foot department complicated by the fact we have never cracked getting boots to fit him they all twist round .
H the young ID had his shoes off for the first time since he came here eight weeks ago to let the nail holes grow out instantly he had mega heel first landing and was very easy he's got a big season coming his shoes went back on today so I can get in the work I need ,if I had longer he was going to be very easy but he got great strong digital cushions and great horn and sole quality but his feet are fairly flat but he was sound when the shoes where removed .
Tatts is my BF poster boy but his natural breakover is very very good .
While I am very clear in my mind that horses need shoeing breaks every year I am happy to shoe them when it suits me .
Barnacle
Well-Known Member
You stated your motivation for going barefoot in the first place was to have a happy horse. Your horse is not happy barefoot. Shoe him.
I don't know why people are so convinced that a barefoot horse is a happy one in the first place. I know it saves money but honestly, you need to do what is best for your horse, not follow some vague fashionable 'ideal'. Sure there are some benefits to a horse being barefoot and I ride several (8-9 horses) that are all barefoot on a regular basis. My experience is that some would much rather be shod if only their owners weren't totally blind to the pain they suffer regularly. And these are horses with generally good feet that have been unshod their entire lives. It's not "natural" for a horse to be barefoot - not if it's being ridden! Shoes have been around a long, long time and for very good reason!
You can see your horse is in pain and are obviously prepared to do the right thing by him. So please just do! The lengths people will go to to avoid shoeing are remarkable.
I don't know why people are so convinced that a barefoot horse is a happy one in the first place. I know it saves money but honestly, you need to do what is best for your horse, not follow some vague fashionable 'ideal'. Sure there are some benefits to a horse being barefoot and I ride several (8-9 horses) that are all barefoot on a regular basis. My experience is that some would much rather be shod if only their owners weren't totally blind to the pain they suffer regularly. And these are horses with generally good feet that have been unshod their entire lives. It's not "natural" for a horse to be barefoot - not if it's being ridden! Shoes have been around a long, long time and for very good reason!
You can see your horse is in pain and are obviously prepared to do the right thing by him. So please just do! The lengths people will go to to avoid shoeing are remarkable.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Thanks GS, I always think of it as a good compromise and mention on threads on here that you do it with yours but realised I had never asked you about that point!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Could she stand beside an experienced one being shod and watch before she's done .
That's what I always do .
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I agree with most of this .
Young working age horses being expected to live off grass on soaked hay for no other reason than they are foot sore on uneven stony ground is just silly .
Horse thin and losing muscle because of a restrictive diet to try to stop foot soreness and my friend a vet sees this ,is just wrong .
I do manage my horses access to grass mainly by stabling daily and a track for Fatty but I would never keep a horse without grazing just to keep it bf unless the choice was no grass or PTS , even then I would be seriously wondering if that was ethical .
BF is a tool .
Shoeing breaks help the digital cushions get a decent work out every year .
It allows nail holes to grow down meaning the farrier never has compromise the shoeing to keep the shoes on because the horn is in good knick .
It allows you to assess the horse without shoes every year .
It does save me money as I do most of the trimming myself now and I am not shoeing for an average five or six months .
I feed them the same BF or shod .
H had a nine/ten week shoeing break in that time we got rid of all the nail holes except one bit on one hind foot which chipped right back when we removed the shoes but it was just a shallow crescent by the time he was shod so no issue .
So he goes into his seven yo hunting season with me knowing he's truly sound in his feet and a good whole foot for the farrier to work with .
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
As an owner of three unshod horses, I would like to point out that there are owners out there who are not blind to their horse's pain and do not think that having a horse in pain is acceptable. If one of mine was in pain I wouldn't ignore it. I would try boots before shoeing though as I don't use boots at the moment, so it seems logical to try that before going for shoes.
I know that I'm coming from this from a different angle as one of mine was lame in shoes (and heading for PTS) and is now sound without them. I do resent the implication that anyone who doesn't shoe, does it to save money or to follow a trend and has no thought for the horse's welfare.
I know that I'm coming from this from a different angle as one of mine was lame in shoes (and heading for PTS) and is now sound without them. I do resent the implication that anyone who doesn't shoe, does it to save money or to follow a trend and has no thought for the horse's welfare.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Some horses can go barefoot. Some horses can't. If you've tried everything then well.... don't suffer a nervous breakdown.
Boot or shoe.
Simples.
Boot or shoe.
Simples.
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
^THIS
Not everyone does it to save money, in fact to change the management and to feed the bespoke minerals will cost about the same as shoeing, £1.00 a day.
HOWEVER there are people who use the "its natural" excuse to neglect their horses, there is no other way to put it, the horses are not in the best condition and are not managed successfully, but have no shoes, front or back and are not riden in boots when this might assist a transition.
Last edited:
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
agreed! My old horse would get shoeing breaks every year, my old farrier recommended it but he said most leisure riders wouldn't agree to it, even if their riding consisted of one hack or schooling session a week. Funnily enough, he would also say that if a horse is feeling its feet on stones it wasn't necessarily sore, just being careful so make of that what you may.If I take mine from the field onto a forestry track, I don't expect him to love it so I boot. If it got to the stage whereby horse couldnt cope with its environment and I couldnt ride, I would shoe.
My three live out (mostly) on grass, 35 acres in the winter, 5 acres (which is rested for 6 months) in the summer plus I have small paddocks at home. I have done the restricted grazing thing for weight issues but I absolutely know that my lot are happier with space, a variety of grasses, company and movement. I have ponies who spend some of their time muzzled but the biggest difference I've introduced is type of grazing and that's not always possible.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I just do not know why OP has not realised that, and why she is paying a trimmer is beyond me, any good barefoot friendly farrier will tell her whether to shoe or not shoe. I don't like "diagnoses by forum" but it seems to me that this horse should have been shod a long time ago. Or moved to a place where there are different facilities.
Or a change in management to include work on different surfaces, using tarmac to rasp the feet, develop the digital cushion.
The whole idea is to allow the horse to stride out confidently with a heel first landing.
Many horses can self trim, thus avoiding "footiness" after trimming.
http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/
Last edited:
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Yes I agree, and whilst I have been very evangelical about it in the past, lots of things have shown me that actually, you can only work with what's in front of you and what knowledge you have behind you. Look what luxury we have nowadays though... lots of fantastic boots, trimmers, farriers, shoes, studs, special supplements and feedstuffs at our disposal. When has it ever been this good?
If there is one thing I have learnt from all of this is, if you are shoeing, then those feet need regular breaks to stay as healthy as possible as we have all said! It's written in every farriery manual... and now it has become normal to keep a horse shod 365 days a year. It is quite a detriment.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Many horses self trim and many don't .
I don't think rockley can really be used as an example as they have a purpose built tracks set up that thousands and thousands to build it's a high up place so the grasses are probably ideal for horses .
It's the BF ideal not many can achieve a nirvana if you like .
Bit like having hand made shoes from the best farrier in the world .
I agree with Faracat about many horses needing to be BF because they where lame in shoes .
However many horses which have had soundness issues caused by shoes can return to shoes with an educated owner and a very good farrier.
Many issues are caused by poor farriers and poor management practise .
There's no one way is right with this .
Shoes are no more a failure than using boots is it's about finding what works for your situation .
Personally I don't like boots and avoid using them if at all possible but that's my choice based on my experience doesn't make me better or worse than any one else .
I don't think rockley can really be used as an example as they have a purpose built tracks set up that thousands and thousands to build it's a high up place so the grasses are probably ideal for horses .
It's the BF ideal not many can achieve a nirvana if you like .
Bit like having hand made shoes from the best farrier in the world .
I agree with Faracat about many horses needing to be BF because they where lame in shoes .
However many horses which have had soundness issues caused by shoes can return to shoes with an educated owner and a very good farrier.
Many issues are caused by poor farriers and poor management practise .
There's no one way is right with this .
Shoes are no more a failure than using boots is it's about finding what works for your situation .
Personally I don't like boots and avoid using them if at all possible but that's my choice based on my experience doesn't make me better or worse than any one else .
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I'm actually slightly wary of shoeing that particular horse now. Even on a short shoeing cycle she grew a lot of toe and with no shoes her hooves are much better balanced as she keeps the toe short. She does still need trimming though, I've never been able to get any of them to self trim as the more roadwork I do, the faster they seem to grow.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Does she have weak heels ?
Bet she does they are the most diffcult ones IME the toes are always trying to run forward .
J like this he really needs a four week shoeing when his feet grow fast we manage it at five and a break in summer when the feet are growing fastest .
He's not helped by being hopeless with boots .
I had the trimmer come on Saturday to measure and see if he had any ideas but he thinks it's going to be hard to get boots to work .
He's being shod on the 17th
ester
Not slacking multitasking
GS that is my thought about the grass element too. I do think that most horses probably do have the capacity to go bare but for some it is going to be so complicated and teetering on a balance that it becomes unviable. I've also said previously if F was younger and I was competing on grass a lot he would be shod to stud 
. I also think Rockley does tend to report on the success stories once they get home rather than the ones that struggle once they go home and actually never become properly rock crunching on hard surfaces and do need the support of boots and alike which I think perhaps leads to unrealistic expectations for some. Frank has been better since moving to wilts but certainly to start with I would have put him down as ok but could be better and outside of hunting he wouldn't willingly be cantering along roads or stony tracks and I try and always point that out to people. He does hunt bare but only about once a month so I don't know if he would do twice weekly for instance! But for him the option is not 100% rock crunching out of shoes or lame in so .
. I also think Rockley does tend to report on the success stories once they get home rather than the ones that struggle once they go home and actually never become properly rock crunching on hard surfaces and do need the support of boots and alike which I think perhaps leads to unrealistic expectations for some. Frank has been better since moving to wilts but certainly to start with I would have put him down as ok but could be better and outside of hunting he wouldn't willingly be cantering along roads or stony tracks and I try and always point that out to people. He does hunt bare but only about once a month so I don't know if he would do twice weekly for instance! But for him the option is not 100% rock crunching out of shoes or lame in so .
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
GS, her heels are not quite as good as my other twos' hooves, but they have improved a hell of a lot. They were under-run, now they are almost right.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Like J,s we have a bigger problem with back heels / toes I am going to trying leaving him without shoes behind a bit longer to see if we can really sort the issue .
He's a an big mover and I worry about his hind suspensories with those long toes and weak heels .
He's a an big mover and I worry about his hind suspensories with those long toes and weak heels .
Archie73
Well-Known Member
I would check you hay is organic and not fertilised with nitrogen compound. Most hays and Haylage bought commercially seem to be. Same with the history of the track horse is on, stays in the soil for years!
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I hate to tell you, all grass fertilier has nitrogen in it, grass wont grow if there is no nitrogen.
All air has oxygen and nitrogen in it.
Last edited:
ktj1891
Well-Known Member
Just to update, he still isn't great but he has improved slightly walking over the stones being kept in on the yard with no grass. My plan is to still keep him bare over this winter and shoe in Spring I will then stick to this cycle of shoeing over spring/summer and going bare autumn/winter.
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Why?
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone keeps a horse unshod if it is not happy after two years, and this incudes times where he is so sore he cannot be ridden.
What did you expect when you posted. You were advised to shoe, so you will wait eight months before you do so!
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone keeps a horse unshod if it is not happy after two years, and this incudes times where he is so sore he cannot be ridden.
What did you expect when you posted. You were advised to shoe, so you will wait eight months before you do so!
Last edited:
zandp
Well-Known Member
Sorry, only just got back on. I asked about the grass because that's likely to be the problem. I have an EMS/Cushings mare who is ok on more natural grass grazing - ok as in she doesn't get footy, but my current yard is ryegrass and clover grazing and she has to be off it (on a track with hay - grass base as I'm on livery and YO won't let me remove the grass !) and she's still footy most of the spring / summer. It goes in the winter (after the autumn flush) and she's ok then. I use boots during spring and summer, when she was shod she used to lose her shoes every few weeks and her foot was more often than not ripped off so barefoot and boots work better for us.