Barefoot-Underneath of my horses hooves

[Fox07]

Fronts

Backs

What do people think of these? I am worried about fronts

 

[3OldPonies]

I'm no expert, but they look OK to me. My boy's feet look something similar and the only thing my farrier said was to get some Hoofmaster purple spray to deal with that black fungus along where the white line should be. Having sucessfully turned his feet and my sleeve purple a few times we are well on the way to winning.

 

[clippi]

On thw whole not to bad, shove some field paste in the deep sulcus and round the edge of frog where it looks thrushy. Your white line is wide and letting bacteria in so ues a wire brush to scrub out the white line and again apply something like field paste,
How long have you been barefoot for? Looking at the uneven thickness of the walls, is you timmer/farrier addressing this?

 

[TwoStroke]

The soles in front look very flat, almost convex, though pictures can be deceiving. What's the pony's history?

 

[Fox07]

Thanks for replies so far, here are some more if they help:
Backs

Backs

Fronts

Fronts

Horse was previously shod but hooves started going rubbish- very under run heel and long toed despite keeping horses shoeing routine to 5-6weeks so went barefoot just not sure if I have done right thing, horse currently lame and vet going to investigate further on Thursday. Diet is micronized linseed 120g twice a day and two scoops of speedi- beet, currently on haylege.

 

[Shysmum]

look like they need to be seen by a farrier to me.

 

[TwoStroke]

You can see from the sole shots that the walls aren't overgrown, so I don't think there's much a farrier can do with them.

How old is he? Any metabolic issues?

The feet look structurally ok, but the fronts look like the soles have gone splat. There's an interesting flare/deviation in the first pic, too. Any known issues with that leg?

 

[A Guilding]

You can see from the sole shots that the walls aren't overgrown, so I don't think there's much a farrier can do with them.

How old is he? Any metabolic issues?

The feet look structurally ok, but the fronts look like the soles have gone splat. There's an interesting flare/deviation in the first pic, too. Any known issues with that leg?

What does soles gone splat mean?

 

[LucyPriory]

What does soles gone splat mean?

It's a technical term....

OP - you've not said what you horse's diet is and I'd hazard a guess that diet might be an issue.

Front soles in particular lack concavity (hence ref to 'splat' by Twostroke).
Outer hoof walls are hinting at dietary imbalance, not least with the cracks and dessicated appearance.

And yes the frogs look thrushy. Are they firm or soft to touch and by firm I mean like blocks of wood.

Is your horse sound?

 

[TwoStroke]

What does soles gone splat mean?

As LP says - lost any concavity they may have had.

Diet is micronized linseed 120g twice a day and two scoops of speedi- beet, currently on haylege

.

Are you feeding a mineral supplement OP? The feet look typical of mineral deficiencies to me, so it's probably a good idea to try something like Pro Hoof. Also, is that 2 stubbs scoops of speedibeet dry weight? That's quite a lot, do you have any issues with weight?

 

[LucyPriory]

As LP says - lost any concavity they may have had.

.

Are you feeding a mineral supplement OP? The feet look typical of mineral deficiencies to me, so it's probably a good idea to try something like Pro Hoof. Also, is that 2 stubbs scoops of speedibeet dry weight? That's quite a lot, do you have any issues with weight?

And not all haylage is created equal. Haylage is often all it takes to splat a hoof.

 

[A Guilding]

As LP says - lost any concavity they may have had.

.

Is that a problem?

How old is he? and is he lame front left?

 

[amandap]

I'm another who would look at diet. Especially sugar levels and mineral intake. My tb's hooves go 'splat' (soles flatten and hoof runs forward or dinner plate in her case) but much worse. I put her on soaked hay and hey (lol) presto hooves develop a better shape, cracks grow out. She is very sensitive to grass so is off grass (yarded) much of the time these days. I have seen further improvements with a good mineral balancer and linseed. I use forage plus balancers and they now have a hoof health one which may well help with quality of the hoof wall general hoof quality and resistance to thrush.

I would also consider a one off soak of something like cleantrax, milton solution or apple cider vinegar solution for the front hooves. I realize this can be a no go for some horses though. LP may well not agree. lol

Losing concavity is a problem imo as it is often associated with thin soles and is an indication of something (usually dietary sugars) affecting lamina connection.

ps. Here's an article about the importance of diet. http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm

 

[A Guilding]

Where do you think the concavity has gone?
Do you think that it is right to compare this foot which is under functioning to a t/bred foot which is likely to be over functioning? Genuine question.

 

[LucyPriory]

I'm another who would look at diet. Especially sugar levels and mineral intake. My tb's hooves go 'splat' (soles flatten and hoof runs forward or dinner plate in her case) but much worse. I put her on soaked hay and hey (lol) presto hooves develop a better shape, cracks grow out. She is very sensitive to grass so is off grass (yarded) much of the time these days. I have seen further improvements with a good mineral balancer and linseed. I use forage plus balancers and they now have a hoof health one which may well help with quality of the hoof wall general hoof quality and resistance to thrush.

I would also consider a one off soak of something like cleantrax, milton solution or apple cider vinegar solution for the front hooves. I realize this can be a no go for some horses though. LP may well not agree. lol

Losing concavity is a problem imo as it is often associated with thin soles and is an indication of something (usually dietary sugars) affecting lamina connection.

ps. Here's an article about the importance of diet. http://www.hoofrehab.com/diet.htm

LOL - cleantrax has instructions...... Milton not so much and I know at least one person who made their horse mega foot shy by using it insufficiently diluted. ACV can sting so be careful

 

[LucyPriory]

Where do you think the concavity has gone?
QUOTE]

Are you being mischievous?

I would hesitate to argue that a TB foot is 'over functioning' for all sorts of reasons but let's start with what do you mean by over functioning?

 

[A Guilding]

Where do you think the concavity has gone?
QUOTE]

Are you trying to tell us that this isn't covered in the farrier training? Or are you being mischievous?

I would hesitate to argue that a TB foot is 'over functioning' for all sorts of reasons but let's start with what do you mean by over functioning?

Sole is flat for different reasons, im off to the pub so cant play tonight.

 

[Fox07]

Hi thanks for all replies, no horse isn't currently sound- front left is a suspect but vet due out Thursday (horse currently on box rest) diet is two scoops of watered speedi beet and the linseed twice a day, I was feeding biotin but was told it was a waste of money to feed it. did suspect thrush and started treating for that with hibiscrub and gold label frog cleaner (blue solution)front frogs are coming off especially on left. horse in question is 4yo (5 in July) and due to lameness not been in work for a few weeks.

 

[Katrina_72]

I had similar hoof issue last year and was frustrated at wasting my money on several different products that didn't work. I was at Your Horse Live in Nov and spk to chap on the Fly Away stand, he gave me some healthy hoof conditioner for cracked n chipped hooves, it is also anti fungal so should help with the thrush problem. I have to say after wasting my money on other products this was fab.

 

[TwoStroke]

Cleantrax is amazing.

A guilding - yes, I think a lack of concavity is often indicative of dietary stress, as amandap says. As to where its gone (?!) maybe ze germans took it??

And really - over functioning TB feet?? Is this some kind of special farrier dialect that you use to communicate to each other so us commoners can't comprehend?

 

[Fox07]

I am really careful not to feed sugary stuff to my horse I think diet wise she is lacking a supplement and I agree her front hooves have gone 'splat' they did with shoes hence going barefoot but still splat :/thank u for input so far looking at pro hoof supplement is this the best one?

 

[LucyPriory]

Also consider the Forage Plus specialist hoof supplement.

Cutting sugar is excellent and its great that you are on top of that. Just bear in mind that if the haylage is overly acidic this can disrupt the hind gut and one potential outcome of that is LGL (splat attack).

 

[amandap]

Pro hoof is a good one to use to start with. Grass and hays can also have high sugar levels and may be something you need to look at if minerals don't do the trick.

Concavity can't go anywhere, it increases or reduces depending on the health of the hoof structures and environment. It also varies between individual horses.
I have seen my (tb) horses' hooves change shape in days/weeks. They can 'collapse' (splat) within days on grass for eg. and then become less flared with some concavity within weeks/months if diet is addressed.

I don't know what you mean by "over functioning" A Guilding I'm afraid? Racing tb's usually spend a lot of time stabled so really don't use their hooves that much in the scheme of things. lol They may well use them more than the average stabled domestic horse, but are they "over functioning"?

ps. Forage Plus ones are more high spec. than Pro Hoof so might be worth a whirl. Second LP re acidity in haylage.

 

[Fox07]

is there somewhere I can send haylege to be analysed

 

[LucyPriory]

Dodson and Horrell will analyse haylage

 

[A Guilding]

Cleantrax is amazing.

A guilding - yes, I think a lack of concavity is often indicative of dietary stress, as amandap says. As to where its gone (?!) maybe ze germans took it??

And really - over functioning TB feet?? Is this some kind of special farrier dialect that you use to communicate to each other so us commoners can't comprehend?

In this horse the flatsole is as a result of retained sole at the apex of the frog. If you look at the height of the coronary band you will see its normal for the size of foot, as the foot isnt overly wide then the splat you describe hasnt taken place. The splat effect in Tbreds usually takes place with the over expansion of the capsule, P3 stays the same size and the laminal junction stretches, in conjunction P3 compresses the sole at its distal borders.
this is an interesting paper.
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/geneva/2007/p063_067_Savoldi.pdf

The over function thing. May be I should of been more specific. By that I mean the range of movement through the function of the capsule through the weight bearing phase of the stride. The range of deformation and reforming shape in some t/breds feet would be immense compared to the horse pictured in this thread relative to size and weight. The capsule in this horse is not functioning correctly, Especially behind, some of the cracks are poor horn as result of poor diet, and some are the result of stress to the capsule.
this is quite interesting.

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/199/8/1829.full.pdf

The wearing of the toe in front like he is is quite interesting, it is well to the lateral toe quarter, which would indicate the center of the joint being well out of line with the center of the capsule and a very low arc (in short not picking his feet up) as he passes through the swing phase of the stride, that or he paws the ground a lot.
but i might be wrong

 

[TwoStroke]

Interesting thoughts, A Guilding. From the photos I don't think I agree, in fact I think the opposite . The area at the toe you mentioned is flatter because of the lack of concavity and inadequate sole depth imo. The flat area is an area which is missing material. Look at the collateral groove depth - insufficient for adequate sole depth.

This is all based on the photos, of course... Would be very interesting to see the feet in person!

 

[A Guilding]

Concavity can't go anywhere, it increases or reduces depending on the health of the hoof structures and environment. It also varies between individual horses.
I have seen my (tb) horses' hooves change shape in days/weeks. They can 'collapse' (splat) within days on grass for eg. and then become less flared with some concavity within weeks/months if diet is addressed.

I don't know what you mean by "over functioning" A Guilding I'm afraid? Racing tb's usually spend a lot of time stabled so really don't use their hooves that much in the scheme of things. lol They may well use them more than the average stabled domestic horse, but are they "over functioning"?

Yep you are right on that diet thing and happening in days!!! splatting as you guys have said. I mention T breds as they are inherently weak in the hoof, and it help when looking at what is just outside the normal by looking at the extreem.

 

[A Guilding]

Interesting thoughts, A Guilding. From the photos I don't think I agree, in fact I think the opposite . The area at the toe you mentioned is flatter because of the lack of concavity and inadequate sole depth imo. The flat area is an area which is missing material. Look at the collateral groove depth - insufficient for adequate sole depth.

This is all based on the photos, of course... Would be very interesting to see the feet in person!

I dont really care if you agree or not

 

[ester]

For interests sake (and consideration of the splat theory) I wonder if you might comment on these pics AG?

external hoof looked like this

so not really 'splatted'??

underneath looked like this

not sure if you can tell but soles were flat.