Barefooters, what do you think of this?!

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Monkers

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Hello!

I was just wondering what you thought of analysis of this feed supplement? I will let you know which one it is later if you don't already! ;)



Ingredients



Minerals: Dicalcium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride, Magnesium Oxide, Calcium

Carbonate



Cereals: Maize



Other: Lysine HCL, Methionine



Fruits: Blackcurrant Extract



Herbs: Curcumin, Rosemary Extract



Nutrient Analysis



PROTEIN 7.0% ASH 68.0%

L LYSINE 4.0% DL METHIONINE 2.4%




Per kg
Per 50ml (50g) scoop

Calcium
140g (14.0%)
7g

Phosphorus
80g (8.0%)
4g

Magnesium
24g (2.4%)
1.2g

Salt
160g (16.0%)
8g

Sodium
64g (6.4%)
3.2g

Vitamin A
480,000mg
24,000mg

Vitamin D3
64,000mg
3,200mg

Vitamin E
8,430mg
421.5mg

Vitamin C
8g
0.4g

Vitamin B1
200mg
10mg

Vitamin B2
200mg
10mg

Vitamin B6
200mg
10mg

Vitamin B12
8mg
0.4mg

Vitamin K
40mg
2mg

Biotin
12mg
0.6mg

Pantothenic acid
400mg
20mg

Nicotinic acid
640mg
32mg

Folic acid
320mg
16mg

Choline Chloride
4,000mg
200mg

Cobalt
16mg
0.8mg

Copper
1,200 mg
60mg

Iron
1,600mg
80mg

Manganese
2,400mg
120mg

Selenium
16mg
0.8mg

Zinc
3,200mg
160mg

Iodine
16mg
0.8mg
 
Well, I sell drugs for RA and often hear that blackcurrant is good for rheumatism... never knew it was used in equine supplements.

You know, with addition of dicalphos in that ratio, plus the lysine & methionine, I would hazard a guess it was a youngstock supplement or one for joints/bone health.

I've ever known why vit A is in such a quantity as I have been told horses do not need that much vit A...
 
Ooo Tallyho, you are good!! It's Dodson and horrol's surelimb!

I'm not a proper barefooter, but my horses are unshod (breeding stock) and I feed this to them.

I was just wondering if you thought the vit and min levels were sufficient from a barefoot point of view. Many of them are alot lower than Pro hoof, which seems to be quite popular with barefooters.
 
For me it's not just about what you feed as what you don't feed.
The grass where I am is very high in Calcium, Iodine and Manganese and fairly high in Iron so I would be trying to avoid these which are all in this.
 
Yay!!! See some stuff does go in my murky brain :)

Well, I can only tell you what I use.... I wouldn't feed my barefooter this because I know what is in my grass. I need more copper in than that, a bit more vit e, probably enough mag ox and he does need calcium but gets that from beet & alfalfa.

Then again, I choose it like this because he's had a liver problem before so I don't want to overdo certain minerals and vitamins. I use to give him dried rosemary!!! So it is funny that it has rosemary in it :)

However, say I did have a youngster without such issues, I would probably go with this supp.
 
ooo - missed this one :p

If it works for you, then great. Too high in iron and manganese for my grazing.

The general consensus is that alot of the supplements are just too high in iron and calcium often, which negates all the other minerals.

They get all the Vitamins a, d, b's and k from the grazing, but if they want to throw it in, then OK?
 
That's interesting that you analyse your grazing. Do you have to do that frequently as presumably you would get different readings from summer to winter?
 
Dear God! 68% ash? Don't they know that horses are meant to be vegetarian?
And no it's not wood ash - it's from cremated carcasses - avery cheap way of getting the mineral content and a cheap bulker too. Personally I wouldn't be using it. I always wonder how many horses with sudden, unexplained conditions such as EMA actually eat this muck.
 
classicalfan said:
Dear God! 68% ash? Don't they know that horses are meant to be vegetarian?
And no it's not wood ash - it's from cremated carcasses - avery cheap way of getting the mineral content and a cheap bulker too. Personally I wouldn't be using it. I always wonder how many horses with sudden, unexplained conditions such as EMA actually eat this muck.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is added ash. I think that they have to give an ash analysis, i.e what is left over after the product is burnt, or something like that anyway!

I can't imagine there is an animal product added, there would be an outcry!
 
Monkers said:
That's interesting that you analyse your grazing. Do you have to do that frequently as presumably you would get different readings from summer to winter?
Click to expand...

You'd think so right???

Mineral levels will fluctuate over time depending on the soil mineral content and level of grazing/leaching/other environmental factors. However, the types of mineral will not change unless fertilised.

So from testing any sample, one can tell what the grass sample is rich/poor in and you can then supplement accordingly. Potassium will change between wet & dry season as it depends on other scientific factors I'm too thick to understand but most of the mineral content stays pretty constant give or take a few microgrammes...
 
classicalfan said:
Dear God! 68% ash? Don't they know that horses are meant to be vegetarian?
And no it's not wood ash - it's from cremated carcasses - avery cheap way of getting the mineral content and a cheap bulker too. Personally I wouldn't be using it. I always wonder how many horses with sudden, unexplained conditions such as EMA actually eat this muck.
Click to expand...

No I'm sorry, that is not correct.

ASH is total mineral content. It does not come from bones. It is used scientifically to determine an ASH value based on non-carb content analysis process.

You can determine ASH content of forage/TMR by burning at 500 degrees c which leaves non-organic material which is analysed then give an ASH value together with endogenous & exogenous values.

Yes it does contain silica and salt mainly... no bones.
 
Last edited:
Monkers said:
That's interesting that you analyse your grazing. Do you have to do that frequently as presumably you would get different readings from summer to winter?
Click to expand...

It would be nice to do it for each season, but I just grabbed a few haylage handfuls last winter. It seems to be working well so far.

I only really feed in winter anyway. I'm too lazy to feed in summer;)
 
Agree with monkers re the ash. I studied nutrition as part of my degree and we did calorific breakdowns of forage etc and ash is basically what's left once the other elements have been removed and has no nutritional value so basically 68% of what your paying for does nothing!!
 
I have had my soil analyised once or twice, but I was only looking at nitrogen, phosphates and potash. I put nitrogen down to get a better hay yield. I think you might tell me off for that! In my defence I didn't do it this year. Nitrogen is too expensive and it didn't rain anyway!

I have clay soil so I think my levels stay pretty constant. I would guess if you had a sandy soil your levels would fluctuate more.

So do you barefooters make up your own supplements? I have a mental image of you all tucked away in laboratories with white coats on!
 
i only feed haylage (soaked) and brewers yeast... bft says supplements are a waist of money... she said if you want to give anything then just a mineral lick,...
 
I got the analysis, looked at it for a while, broke out in a sweat...and then paid someone else to interpret them for me;)

Nowadays there is ForagePlus who do it all for you.

I make up a month's baggies of Magic Powder to add in the feed each day. It's quicker and easier for me that way.
Music is essential to enjoy doing it;)
mineralsoncooker.jpg

mineralsinbin.jpg
 
Yes and I have proper mad scientist hair to go with my white coat!!!! :D:D:D:D:D honest !

I don't make up my own though... I just avoid certain ones :D Much easier that way. I do however have two mineral blocks... one is laminshield which is high in mag. One is baby red which is high in copper about right for my requirements. I feed chaff & beet with linseed & Brewers yeast.
 
OMG Oberon!!!!!! Look at that lot!!! I bet you even sleep in your white coat! ;)

I have been slowing changing from traditional cube feeds to a more natural diet, you might remember my recent posts.

Now I feed Just grass, charnwood mills linseed, speedibeet and surelimb.

You might be impressed that I have ordered brewers yeast and mag ox, although there might be enough mag ok in the surelimb?
 
Yes well don't overdo anything... can be as bad as underdoing it. Magnesium is one that is easily eliminated in urine but can cause diarrhoea if too much (think epsom salts for colic!) or if horse has kidney function issue and can't eliminate it...

I also detox once or twice a year - again, worried about that liver.
 
Monkers said:
OMG Oberon!!!!!! Look at that lot!!! I bet you even sleep in your white coat! ;)

I have been slowing changing from traditional cube feeds to a more natural diet, you might remember my recent posts.

Now I feed Just grass, charnwood mills linseed, speedibeet and surelimb.

You might be impressed that I have ordered brewers yeast and mag ox, although there might be enough mag ok in the surelimb?
Click to expand...

I could do things differently and it appears over complicated and fussy.

But my horse's diet has basically been stripped down to the bare bones of only what they need.

All feed companies make their different mixes and add their standard vitamin and mineral premix to each bag....my Magic Powder is the same concept

I rather enjoy mixing the powders and being fully in control of what they eat.

Cheaper too.:)
 
Oberon said:
I could do things differently and it appears over complicated and fussy.
Click to expand...


Not at all!
You're just doing what the feed companies SAY they are doing when they balance the cubes and mixes, but without skimping on the important ingredients and adding extra stuff that we don't need. What the heck is the maize for in the surelimb anyway? I have emailed D&H to ask them!!
 
Haha!! Oberon, looks like something the narcotics police would swoop on!!! : D

I do think it's a fantastic idea tho and is the way I aspire to feed my horse when I finally buy my first next year.
 
Monkers said:
I don't think there is added ash. I think that they have to give an ash analysis, i.e what is left over after the product is burnt, or something like that anyway!

I can't imagine there is an animal product added, there would be an outcry!
Click to expand...

I do hope you're right! Maybe things are a little different where I come from;

The following consumer information is provided by Daryl Fleming, Communications Staff, FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine

Recycled animal waste has been used as a feed ingredient for almost 40 years. This animal waste contains large amounts of protein, fiber, and minerals, and has been deliberately mixed into animal feed for these nutrients. Generally, animal waste is used within the State where it is produced because the bulk and weight of the product makes interstate shipment uneconomical.

While the practice of feeding animal waste to animals seems unpleasant, the use of this product is safe as long as it meets certain specifications required by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO). AAFCO includes officials from all States and the Federal government who are responsible for enforcing the laws regulating the production, labeling, distribution, and/or sale of animal feeds.

AAFCO specifications require that processed animal waste products not contain extraneous materials such as, but not limited to, metal, glass, nails or other harmful matter. They must be free of harmful pathogenic organisms, pesticide residues, parasites, or drug residues, above levels permitted by State or Federal statute or regulation, which could be harmful to animals or could result in residues in human food products or by-products of animals at levels in excess of those allowed by State or Federal statute or regulation.

Products which do not meet the AAFCO definition could be considered adulterated and are subject to State regulatory action. Each individual State has jurisdiction for the surveillance and regulation of processed animal waste as an animal feed ingredient. Products not complying with the AAFCO requirements and found in interstate commerce could be considered adulterated and subject to Federal regulatory action.

AAFCO requires that any person registering any processed animal waste product test, by representative sampling and assaying of such samples, and keep accurate records of the processed animal waste product.

The registrant, manufacturer, or producer of processed animal waste product ingredients must conform to the following sample and assay requirements, in addition to quality standards, testing on the same production run of lots:

Drugs suspected or known to be used in the feed or as a therapeutic treatment of source animals.
Pesticides used on the source animal, facility, and wastes for pest control.
Pathogenic organisms, at least to include Salmonella and E. Coli.
Heavy metals: arsenic, cadmium, copper, lead, mercury, and selenium, at least.
Parasitic larva or ova.
Mycotoxins, such as aflatoxin.

Periodic analyses must be conducted on production runs. Any processed animal waste product that does not meet the quality standards for the product must be further processed until standards are met, or must be diverted to non-feed uses or destroyed.
 
likkibunni said:
Agree with monkers re the ash. I studied nutrition as part of my degree and we did calorific breakdowns of forage etc and ash is basically what's left once the other elements have been removed and has no nutritional value so basically 68% of what your paying for does nothing!!
Click to expand...

Is that really true. I accept that ash is what is left if the product is burned, but if a horse eats it would 68% come out the other end.

I know that if you burn calcium, for example, you would get ash. But if a horse ate it, would some of it not be absorbed and used. I wouldn't want 68% Ash in a feed, but would expect it to be high in a vet/min supplement.
 
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