"barely out of draw reins" comment in "Eventing" - question pls.

Just an observation really, I thought traditionally draw reins should be attached just below the saddle flap, not really between the legs. I also think it is much safer to use them in this way :rolleyes:
 
It would be very interesting to know what % of horses at "top" level have been worked in draw reins at some point as a part of their education.

FWIW that link to the photo of MT schooling Land Vision isn't particularly recent as it's at his previous yard so must be soon after he got the horse (which is two years ago now) which may be significant.
 
I think at the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in the eating - have a look at some of the photos/vids of horses being ridden in draw reins. Look at how the rider is using them and compare to the way the horse is going.

People can be quick to comment but when you look at how their own horses are going you just think 'do they really know what they are talking about?'

I have ridden in draw reins for a horse who persistently put his head in the air. No amount of flexing, coaxing, sponging, riding from the leg could help him 'get' it. As long as he was going with his nose in the air he was developing incorrect musclature that made it even harder for him to work correctly. I lunged him in a 'Pessoa' and rode him in draw reins for a few sessions until his musclature changed. Once he had the muscles to carry himself properly they were put away and never needed again.

There is a lot of talk about 'when you stop using them you are back at square one' but this isn't true. The horse now has the knowledge and the muscles to carry himself correctly.
 
I really wouldn't use them if I didn't need to however on my current horse we got him at 10 and he had done literally no flatwork (2 dressage tests in his life) into canter he VIOLENTLY threw his head, routinely hitting my face. I used draw reins just to help him learn that it wasn't his only option to have his head like a giraffe, don't use them anymore but it really did help him.
 
kerilli, personally I WOULD give them a go on your young mare. They are an ideal tool to show the way, and you are a thoughtful rider who will use them correctly.

I use them when hacking fresh horses, and I use them on arrogant *CANNOT* horses. My YO always comments that she doesn't think I have them tight enough, but they are tight enough to do the job I want.

I would also strongly suggest you try an Equi Ami for your mare if you don't want to use draw reins - great bit of kit!
 
I use them only if there is no other option and I feel guilty about it as I feel that using them is cheating. If a horse has been really spoilt by a rider with bad hands, they can be useful. If you have to use them more than a couple of times to correct a problem, then you need to be looking for other solutions. I would never use them on a young horse.
 
kerilli said:
As for your question, are you really saying that the only way to train a horse to carry itself in a round outline is with draw reins to show it the way? I think a LOT of trainers and riders, both classical and non-classical, might disagree with you.
(I'm still trying to decide whether to try them on this mare, btw.)
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I'm not saying it's the only way, but it is a perfectly acceptable way and some horses really benefit from the use of them, as long as you use them properly. Many roads lead to Rome and all that!
 
[QUOTE
Did the dressage trainer accept that you were able to train the horse to go correctly, but see that it just couldn't work out what you wanted?[/QUOTE]

Yes the trainer could see I was able to work the horse correctly but wanted the horse to stop faffing and focus on the job in hand. The horse was a sharp character and inclined to hollow and bomb off for a stride or two whenever he was taught something new. As I say it really did the trick.

This trainer also taught me it's incorrect to start horses working in the old BHS long and low outline and then try to get them 'up' at a later date. Better to work them a little deep and then get them up once they have built up topline muscle and tone. But that's probably a whole new debate!

My point is that your mare isn't building any of the muscles she needs by going with her nose poking and hocks trailing.
 
foxy1 said:
This trainer also taught me it's incorrect to start horses working in the old BHS long and low outline and then try to get them 'up' at a later date.
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Just to say that as far as I can recall, it's not particularly the BHS method, it is a basic premise of a lot of the continental dressage training.

As has been said, many roads lead to Rome, and working long and low is essential, IMO, to have the back suppling. I've trained with trainers that don't use it, but not one of them has ever said it's wrong. :confused:
 
foxy1 said:
This trainer also taught me it's incorrect to start horses working in the old BHS long and low outline and then try to get them 'up' at a later date. Better to work them a little deep and then get them up once they have built up topline muscle and tone. But that's probably a whole new debate!
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That depends on the system and, more specifically, the type of horse. I read an explanation years ago about how some types/shapes of horses "go down and stay down" so long and low work has to be used more judiciously. Dressage horses "bred for the task" are not this type/shape (but may have other weaknesses/attributes that influence training) and so different standards apply. I didn't really believe it until I went overboard with one that did "go down and stay down" - the lesson being all things at the appropriate time in moderation!

Systems are not only about doing this or doing that, they have developed organically to reflect different types of horses available and other influences. And then people have bred horses, designed tack etc. increasingly for specific schools, which makes those sorts of factors even more influential. They are organic systems and have to be learned as such, even if only to then be "tweaked" individually - sometimes you can mix and match, sometimes you can't. The trick is to know not just how, but what and when, too.
 
The two normally go hand in hand but no offence meant :)

Wise words as always from Tarrsteps; it really is horses for courses isn't it!
 
Like 80-90% of peoples opinion that I've researched on the net - i like to use patience and perseverance to achieve that sought after 'outline' and we sj!!! In anything other than the lightest of hands, used only once muscles are warm for the shortest possible time and only to resolve a persistent problem, draw reins can cause more problems than they solve including severe damage to the poll, neck and back. Imo they should only be used by professionals. I know a 'know it all' teen who never takes them off her 6yr old horse and it breaks my heart to watch him so very tied down.
 
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