BD Legal Calmer?

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dressage_diva

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I have a very hot, sensitive warmblood who is a bit of a worrier about life generally. Whenever he arrives at a venue he is incredibly nervous until I get on him when he chills out.

In fact pretty much as soon as he's plaited up he gets anxious about going competing. As soon as we arrive at a venue he is very unsettled and I had hoped that the more he went out the more relaxed he would be, but that hasn't happened so far. We've tried going to both quiet and busier venues, and he's been back to venues multiple times but he's no more chilled even if he knows the venue! We've tried giving him plenty of time to relax before I get on and the opposite too - getting to venue very late and getting straight on but it makes no difference to him. He's anxious whether I tack him up on the lorry, or tied up by the lorry (I don't do this any more as he panicked and broke loose once). As soon as I get on he is super chilled - he is not nervous at all (you can almost see him breathe a sigh a relief once I'm on!) and he's super brave and chilled in warm up arena and the test arena. After the test he's pretty relaxed and is no longer stressed. I've tried taking him out in the lorry to lessons too but he's still anxious as soon as he arrives. I don't think he's picking up nerves from me (but I am considering getting someone else to take him out instead of me to confirm this).

I'm wondering whether there might be a BD legal calmer which might help him be less anxious when he arrives somewhere (without taking the edge of him when I ride)? He's an absolute sweetheart and I have high hopes for him in Dressage but he's a bit of a worrier about life and I'm sure that given a few years he will start to relax but I'm wondering what I can do in the meantime as I don't like to see him so anxious! I also think the worry is tiring him out as he always seems to tire much quicker when riding him at a venue away from home (he doesn't seem to find the actual travelling stressful - he doesn't sweat up and he stands quietly eating until we arrive somewhere and the lorry stops!).

Any ideas?
 
NAF Magic.

With my lad, I actually put the long plaits into his mane the night before, and then I roll them up when I get to the venue. I also use the Mojo wraps on my lad's headcollar.
 
Thanks I've heard of NAF Magic but wasn't sure how effective it really was. We've tried plaiting my boy the night before but as soon as he sees me in he morning walking over with his travel boots he becomes anxious!
 
I use it on a hunter who stresses and it def makes a difference! He has 2 scoops in his feed the night before hunting and two in the morning. It does not stop it but it certainly helps.
 
dressage_diva said:
Out of interest do you recommend the NAF Magic everyday calmer or just using the syringes on competition days?
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How much NAF Magic ?
 
dressage_diva said:
Out of interest do you recommend the NAF Magic everyday calmer or just using the syringes on competition days?
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I've had good results with the syringe where a daily dose of mag had no effect. Worth a go, I'd say, but give it to the horse in a quiet environment so it has time to take effect.
 
The daily naf calmer had no effect on my horse but the syringe worked very well. I would almost say too well. I can't give her a full syringe, only half, although she has settled now and I don't need to use it any more :)
 
only one I ever use which has worked on three different horses is the syringe Equine America SO KALM + paste, I use an hour before the effect is needed, took the edge hugely off an insane TB, worked on a tricky mare and amazing on a worrying gelding that I have.
 
dressage_diva said:
Thanks I've heard of NAF Magic but wasn't sure how effective it really was. We've tried plaiting my boy the night before but as soon as he sees me in he morning walking over with his travel boots he becomes anxious!
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Please do try it!! You won't be dissapointed, but you do need to give it at least one containers worth of time first, and you need to give a higher dose to start with and then go down after ten days to a maintenance dose - don't be tempted to not do this to save money as it may not work. I have had my horse on it for 16 months now on maintenance dose and have taken him off it twice as a test. Within a few days of him being off it on both occassions he has gone back, spooky, spinning on the road, getting tense and anxious. When I have put him back on it within a few days again he has been back to sensible, safe, and when he does spook it de-escalates so quickly.

I can't rate it enough. I tried normal magnesium powder but it didn't do anything at all for my horse. Yes you could argue that it has some kind of placebo effect on the rider which then goes down the reins to the horse but after all this time I doubt very much, given that I barely ever even think about him being on it now.

to help convince you further - at the moment at Countrywide Farmers they have a three for two on all NAF supplements. :)
 
There is no BD ( or any other FEI regulated discipline) legal calmer! They are expressly forbidden in competition. Read the rule book properly.
People may use them but people speed in cars as well. All NAF will say is it does not contain prohibited substances, but it is still illegal to administer any supplement that may have a calming effect. The offence is in the intent as quoted below from FEI

Moreover, the persons administering a herbal or so-called natural product to a horse or pony for health reasons or to affect its performance, who have been informed that the plant of origin or its ingredients do not violate the FEI regulations, may have been misinformed. The use of any herbal or natural product to affect the performance of a horse or pony in a calming (tranquillizing) or an energizing (stimulant) manner is expressly forbidden by the FEI regulations.
 
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Popdosh, I appreciate your information but the Naf 'calmer' is a magnesium supplement and therefore effectively is a food supplement designed to address a mineral deficiency and is therefore no different to taking a vitamin/mineral supplement.
 
I'd be inclined to agree with you D_D - if you read the statement above in that literal way, then it would be against FEI rules to feed oats or any other feedstuff with an energising result.

I think it has more of an application to, say, a calmer containing valerian which is expressly forbidden as having a tranquilising effect.
 
milliepops said:
I'd be inclined to agree with you D_D - if you read the statement above in that literal way, then it would be against FEI rules to feed oats or any other feedstuff with an energising result.

I think it has more of an application to, say, a calmer containing valerian which is expressly forbidden as having a tranquilising effect.
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You are both missing the point it covers any supplement fed to have a calming effect on a horse. Its the intent of changing its state of mind that is the issue not whether it is detectable. Valerian by the way is a banned substance in its own right. Like I say write to NAF and ask the outright question will I be breaking FEI rules if I feed said supplement. The answer you get back will be along the lines of theres no constituent that is on the banned list however they will not commit and say it is legal to use in competition . Maybe ask BD as that was what the question was about. I tried to answer the question by pointing out that no calmer can be BD legal because it is against the rules to give anything for that effect
 
Popdosh I appreciate your point of view but at the end of the day giving a horse a magnesium supplement is no different to giving a horse electrolytes when they are in hard work. It could be argued that I am giving the horse the magnesium purely because it is deficient in it, and not for any other reason.
 
FYI for anyone interested in the above discussion regarding FEI and calmers, the official 2015 FEI rules are here
https://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/2015 EADCMRS - Effective 1 January 2015 - Final Version.pdf

I cannot find any reference to calmers (particularly in Articles 2.1-2.8 which it says outline the Equine Anti-Doping Rule violations which constitute 'doping'). However, this FEI web page does discuss calmers briefly: http://www.fei.org/fei/cleansport/ad-h/prohibited-list but it also states that 'amino acids' may be used during events legally and my understanding is that some calmers include magnesium in the form of an amino acid?
 
I thought it was BE which didn't allow calmers for competitions, I can't find the old thread but it was something along the lines of if it is a supplement fed regularly to the horse it was ok but not as a one off before a competition.

Magnesium is an element, definitely not an amino acid (although it could probably be bound to one, then it's generally said to be "chelated" which means strongly attached chemically) but I would not class it as a herbal or natural product either. For more info about production: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_oxide , although NAF is magnesium chloride if they haven't changed it in the last few years.

ETA: that's the thread https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ope-with-my-horses-stress-when-eventing/page2, so it's indeed the FEI that's quoted not just BE
 
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I give my TB the NAF Magic powder and it definitely improves him - I had to give up trying to give him liquid/paste calmer as it wasn't worth the fight with trying to use a syringe.....
 
I'm not sure if Confidence EQ would be competition legal but it's a different approach in that it's a gel you wipe on the horse's nostrils that works along a similar line as the dog plug in diffusers for anxiety

I've seen some good reviews. You can buy single sachets on Amazon
 
Not in anti doping rules as its not a doping offence its in the general rules because it is expressly forbidden to administer one of whatever type.
Surely the logical thing to do is ask BD outright and get the definitive answer . However seeing as BD rules are based on FEI and BEF I cannot see how they will tell you any different
 
dressage_diva said:
Popdosh I appreciate your point of view but at the end of the day giving a horse a magnesium supplement is no different to giving a horse electrolytes when they are in hard work. It could be argued that I am giving the horse the magnesium purely because it is deficient in it, and not for any other reason.
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I am assuming then that your horse has had a metabolic profile done to establish that its lacking in magnesium. If so there are far cheaper and longer acting remedies that you can use. You could try an old trick feed it less and work it harder.
 
popsdosh said:
I am assuming then that your horse has had a metabolic profile done to establish that its lacking in magnesium. If so there are far cheaper and longer acting remedies that you can use. You could try an old trick feed it less and work it harder.
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Popdosh you are being a bit harsh, plenty of horses get magnesium supplementation. It is widely used in general day to day supplements, even those that are not designed for calming and if I understand well it is harmless as any excess is easily excreted in urine (but the body can't store much) and UK forage and grazing is generally high in calcium (and potassium) so it can be beneficial to add magnesium to a horse's feed. Forage plus, Prohoof and Equivita are examples of supplements which provide magnesium without being marketed as "calmers".
 
Palindrome said:
Popdosh you are being a bit harsh, plenty of horses get magnesium supplementation. It is widely used in general day to day supplements, even those that are not designed for calming and if I understand well it is harmless as any excess is easily excreted in urine (but the body can't store much) and UK forage and grazing is generally high in calcium (and potassium) so it can be beneficial to add magnesium to a horse's feed. Forage plus, Prohoof and Equivita are examples of supplements which provide magnesium without being marketed as "calmers".
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In which case as I have suggested perhaps getting a definitive answer from BD is the way forward . I merely pointed out that under FEI rules no substance even a bucket of water is allowed with the intention of altering its natural way of going. Dont get me going on the magnesium subject as most riders are sucked in by the hype the supplement manufacturers throw at you. It is a subject I know very well and more problems can be caused by over supplementing it. Surely if you think your horse is short of magnesium a simple blood profile will give you the answer
 
popsdosh said:
Dont get me going on the magnesium subject as most riders are sucked in by the hype the supplement manufacturers throw at you. It is a subject I know very well and more problems can be caused by over supplementing it. Surely if you think your horse is short of magnesium a simple blood profile will give you the answer
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Is that the same hype that sucks in the cattle farmers who have to supplement as UK grazing is very often deficient in magnesium? I'm glad my horse seems to have been sucked in by the hype as well, because when the grass flushes, if he doesnt get it, hes an idiot.
 
TBH I think you will be hard pressed to find many BD riders that DONT use a calmer, including top level riders. I've seen calmers being advertised with pictures of HOYs etc winners on saying how the calmer helped them win! Yet nobody eliminates them from competiting. If it helps your horse have a better experience so that in the future you won't need one then I would try it.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies with suggestions of good products (I'll investigate them all). I am also planning to speak to BD about magensium supplementation/calmers (though I suspect they will just point me to the FEI documentation and I won't get a definitive answer). We already have our winter regional qualification and are taking some time out of competition for a bit anyways so going to give the daily feed calmer a try and see if it helps him settle even when we go away from home for lessons/clinics.
 
Interestingly the NAF site says

Note: NAF are pleased to confirm that the magnesium used in Instant Magic does not contravene FEI rules and is safe for use in all horses.
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so *they* at least seem pretty sure....

Similarly Nupafeed, which is the other one I've used in the past to try and tackle anxiety due to yard move
Are Nupafeed products legal to use in competition?
Yes, all Nupafeed products are free of banned substances in accordance with the FEI and other governing bodies.
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Interesting!
 
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