BD Regionals qualification at prelim.. rant!

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Switchthehorse

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Ok me and the nag are 'proper' prelim ... as in we can't do any fancy stuff and it's taken 4 years to get her on the bit and going forward. My instructor suggested I try and aim for Winter Regionals qualification this year (unlikely to win but just for the experience).

So far I have entered three qualifiers, and each time we have come pretty much last in our section. Not bitter in terms of I was pleased with my scores but I did notice that in the warm ups we were surrounded by people doing the 'fancy stuff' So I decided to put my Miss Marple hat on and assess the competition.

No word of a lie ALL of them are competing at novice and most at elementary, they all have plenty of points but just 'not enough' to exclude them from qualifying at prelim.

HOW is this fair? What a bunch of pot hunters!! Come on people give us 'proper' prelims a chance?? Arrghh it makes me so angry that I am forking out £40 odd each competition to compete against people who are several years ahead of us??? So much so I think I might give up!

Am I a miserable old bag or do other people think this isn't fair either? And if you are one of these 'fancy' ones - why do you do it? Don't you feel a teeny bit guilty when you see the rest of us bimbling round whilst you do your canter half pass??!
 
we cant even dream of regional anything [but in farness - baby spoldge is only 4] - but it does really annoy me that riders regularly use a lower class as their warm up - when big rubes was with us - i woudnt have dreamed of using an Intro test to warm her up - not fair on those in that class - thats why there is a warm up space.................
& dont even get me started on RC competitiors who regulalry score 70% plus in Prelim but who wont move up the levels:mad:
 
As long as they are competing within the rules set by BD I really don't see what the problem is?

The standard IS going to be higher at regionals and imo you either work to get to the standard required or keep doing 'normal' competitions until you are ready to be competitive at regionals.
 
The standard IS going to be higher at regionals and imo you either work to get to the standard required or keep doing 'normal' competitions until you are ready to be competitive at regionals.[/QUOTE said:
I guess that sums up my problem - technically my scores would qualify me but at prelim you have to WIN the class as well... and I am never going to win against this lot!? So I could say I am competitive enough to compete as such, but won't get the chance because people who are levels above us will always win!?
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But you aren't competitive enough to qualify if other people are getting higher scores than you and pushing you down the placings...?

When I was competing at Prelim, Millie was regularly getting 72-76% and still we would come 2nd quite often.

Moved up to Novice and came 3rd (I think) with a 67% and a few weeks later won 2 x Novice tests with 64% and 65%.

If you are doing dressage for self improvement and training then the percentage is the important thing.
If you are doing dressage to win, you will need to get better scores than everyone who is eligible for the competition, regardless of whether you meet the lowest requirement for qualification or not.

(I say this as someone who qualified but didn't bother to go to regionals or Area Festivals as I knew the standard of competition would be way to high to expect a placing :))
 
I competed my horse in prelim classes last weekend. His record currently has some points at novice and he got a wild card to the Pet Plan finals at novice for later this month.

He is working novice/ elem at home and can do some baby half pass, half steps etc. He got over 70% last weekend and I'm sure I'm one of the people that you don't think should be in the class and that's fair enough.

However, what you wouldn't know having watched that test is that 8 months ago I struggled to get above 50% because he spent most of his time during a test either stood up, running backwards, piaffing or just generally being a total idiot. He desperately lacked confidence and experience.

I took him out to do some novice's as they made him focus on me a bit more and this way I did manage to complete four tests getting over 62%. I took him to one Area Festival and he completely lost the plot. I had sheets to enter another which had a competition the day before and so having competed the day before he produced his best test in the Area Festival class, we were just outside of the placings and I was over the moon! Much to my amazement he has been given a wild card!

So I spent the winter training and working really hard on building his confidence and our relationship and I have just started competing him again having had a 5 month break. I therefore took him back out at Prelim. He is eligible and so am I. As it happens all the work is paying off and he behaved beautifully - I was absolutely chuffed to bits with him.

I certainly don't agree with what I call 'Prelim Queens' or pot hunters, but sometimes the story isn't quite what it seems on the surface ;-)
 
Without meaning to sound harsh, if you want to win you will just have to up your game and train harder.

The people who win have that drive in them and will no doubt go home and work hard. (I'm not saying that you dont work hard)

Just because someone can do all the moves in the warm up it doesnt mean that they will win the class.
 
All very fair points!!

Stoxx i am thrilled for you that things are finally coming together, and actually you are the sort of person I am normally pleased for because no doubt when you do a good test you beam from ear to ear and congratulation ponio a lot. Hope the successses continue.

And agree nat1003, I need to continue to work harder, and don't get me wrong I do!! Ruddy hard! And its not technically about the winning per se as am always thrilled when the nag tries her best and we do a decent test and yes maybe I am not competitive yet, but this wasnt just about me but for all the normal prelimmers out there...

Maybe novice was a bad example, can I try again with ele?? I guess what I was trying to say was NOT the people who have had issues so have downgraded but those who compete one week at ele and then the next week again at prelim!? I am not sure why I started this now I was just having an arrrggghhh moment :)

Maybe nows the time to make an arrrrggghhh comment about judges expecting prelim horses to be in perfect self carriage and poll high?! ;)
 
Thank you and yes... I'm still beaming!

As for people out at elem and then prelim, this shouldn't happen for too long because if those riders do any good they will gain more than 14 points pretty quickly making them a group 6 and unable to compete in the qualifying sections at Prelim again.
It seems an odd thing to do as they will also put themselves open at novice at the same time!

Good luck and carry on with your training, we'll all get there... eventually!
 
I agree its really frustrating and while, in the rules, is morally dubious you can only hope that they win every week for a few weeks and move up to the next level, thus giving the more lowly folk like yourself a fighting chance. You see it at all levels though - I took my lunatic mare to a prelim dressage test at the local riding club and one competitor was warming up outside the ring with 3 time changes. Apparently she was notorious for it. What sort of person does that to kids with hairy ponies?
 
Sorry, but as per another poster - it's within the rules so I don't see the problem?

Instead of posting about it; improve, get better and BE the competition.
 
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Am no where remotely near regional levels but even at our local RC unaffliated comps people were using the intro as a warm up for prelim and then going and winning both of them! Doesn't seem fair to those of us in intro whose baby horses can't canter and the young kids who are having their first go at dressage as we really haven't a chance! However this year same RC has introduced a rule that you can't enter the intro if you have ever been place 1st 2nd or third in a prelim so that has leveled the field a bit!
 
I would put mare and myself well within the 'normal' category, we aren't aiming for regonal quals though and shall aim for areas. We are coming on in leaps and bounds and it has been a long road to even get to this point, so areas here we come! Winning means you just happen to be better than others on the day, beating your own pb % means you are the best you have ever been - a happier result to me!
 
It is a bit annoying that you still have to win qualifiers at Prelim as they have changed this for the higher levels.

But ultimately those are the rules and you won't be competing against people who are very established at Novice or Ele as just 14 BD points means you can't do Prelim.
 
The standard IS going to be higher at regionals and imo you either work to get to the standard required or keep doing 'normal' competitions until you are ready to be competitive at regionals.[/QUOTE]

Hence the reason why I stay at unaffiliated Prelim!! :D :D I get early to mid 60% and wouldn't dream of affiliating until I start to get constant 65% and above and even then I would expect to be at the bottom at that level and eventually become despondent. Some horses have the temprement to progress whilst others don't - simples!! :p :p
 
If you want to have some fun and get to a championship, why not do Trailblazers to qualify for the regionals is nowhere near as hard and a good score could see you through to the finals, it may not be BD but if it is more for your own sense of achievement it may be a better aim for now.
 
It doesnt just happen at regionals.
It also happens at unaffiliated competitions too.
When I started competing my mare at Prelim, I was up against people who were competing affiliated Novice/Elementary.
No, its not fair, and maybe people should step out of their comfort zone and compete at the level they are training for. That would encourage those who are just starting out to carry on with their training and competing. But I agree, its very disheartening to be thrashed by by someone you know to be competing at a much higher level than you.
 
Have to agree, if their competing within bd rules then its just a case of something to work on. And to view it from another angle, perhaps those working at elementary in the prelim would face the same problem as you if they went in the novice? Hence the reason they're sticking at prelim this year? I've only ever been bothered about my percentage as not into competitive dressage but if I was I'd just view being outclassed as a challenge.
 
Most venues I know who run unaffiliated shows have rules about BD points for unaff as well. I also find it hard to believe that combinations who are that good/established would bother "pot-hunting" at unaffiliated shows or at Prelim - there is nothing in it - you don't even win any money - entry fee back at best! And restricted classes are there for people who haven't been there and done it all before - nobody above rider group 7 will be doing Prelims, so they are all relatively inexperienced and have every right to be competing in those classes.

I get beaten in show jumping competitions because people ride better than me or they are on better horses that keep the poles up - but it is not "unfair", its a competition. ;)
 
Excellently put little flea. Mine has reasonable lateral work but its really all geared towards jumping. Best score she ever had was 72% at elementary once. Anyone experienced at dressage can see her changes etc really aren't good enough for high level pure dressage but to the untrained eye can look pretty impressive.
 
Part of parcel of competing I'm afraid. I'm very fortunate that Genie has managed to get her regional qualification at Prelim after we got two cracking results and wins on the same day. We have worked hard to up our game so that we can be competetive and I am hoping we will do respectfully well at Nationals. We don't do 'fancy stuff' apart from the odd bit of leg yielding and baby shoulder in to help improve her, and her canter is still not balanced enough to think about affiliated novice. So I guess we are what you would describe as 'proper prelim', but you can still be competetive, it's all about training, training and more training! 2 years ago my aim was to stay in the arena and get 50%, and we only started to compete affiliated at the end of last year (apart from a brief foray on a ticket once!).

Chin up and keep trying!!! :D
 
And breathe ...

To be in with a chance of of qualifying for the Prelim regionals the following must apply
a) the rider must be group 8 or 7 - this means the rider cannot have obtained more than 14 points at elementary on ANY horse, let alone the prelim horse they are competing
b) the horse must still be within prelim points (from memory about 50) - depending on how frequently you compete it is pretty easy to rack up points quickly at novice level

By the very nature of competing under a national governing body at a championship level, this should only be available to the top % of competitors at that level .. if you wish to get there then you will need to accept that you should up your game.

There are plenty of oppertunities for 'average' horses ... the BD petplans are designed for just that.

When you are out BD'ing it can be very difficult sometimes to look at things objectively. There is a lot of money in the sport and as such some very flashy horses out there. However flashy horses still need to learn and still need ring exposure, and if that is at prelim level with an eligible rider I do not see the harm.
 
I was out doing 2x BD prelims today. We managed a 2nd and a 1st in the qualifying class except didnt qualify as was 0.48% below 65% >:( due to quite harsh judging. I'm not too bothered though as figure we have more of a chance of doing well at area festivals since it is our first time at affiliated as competition is sooo high at regionals. We do a bit of the fancy stuff (baby travers, half pass collection and extension etc) in the warmup and if she was a bit more consistent in her mood then I could move up to novice properly but, for exampl, we did another BD last week and got 61.5% and 58% and came pretty much last in our classes because she found white boards in an indoor WITH mirrors far to scary ;)
If you aren't winning against these people dropping down from novice/ ele you probably aren't good enough to place at regionals (theoretically) but I do understand the frustration as when I do unaff dressage at prelim, you are always against glory hunters that get 70 odd percent and stand no chance of winning or even placing at more popular events.
But the thing I love about dressage is that it doesnt matter too much where you come, as long as you are happy with your scores and your horse, and get good feedback, that is all that matters :)
 
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You see it with sj too. The affiliated lot using the 80 cm to warm up. Winning that then going to the other ring to compete at 1m10 affiliated. When pony and I was on form we used to love taking the red frilly then wishing them luck in their 'proper' class. Hope to be back to this form this year and move up a height class. I'm not brave enough to go over the meter.
 
nat1003 said:
Without meaning to sound harsh, if you want to win you will just have to up your game and train harder.

The people who win have that drive in them and will no doubt go home and work hard. (I'm not saying that you dont work hard)

Just because someone can do all the moves in the warm up it doesnt mean that they will win the class.
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I totally agree with what you have to say and that's what makes the difference between somebody who competes regularly and somebody like myself who doesn't.

However I also agree with some points from the OP. There are plenty of people out there who want to win or get a rosette no matter what and will enter competitions far below their capabilities just to do this. However I was always told that you should be training your horse to the level above that which you wish to compete at.
 
millitiger said:
(I say this as someone who qualified but didn't bother to go to regionals or Area Festivals as I knew the standard of competition would be way to high to expect a placing :))
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^^this. I qualified for Novice regionals on first outing BD (before they changed the qualification process), tootled along as it would have been rude not to and then felt totally outclassed. When I was competing regularly we qualified a few times but didn't bother to go to the regionals again:D

OP, I totally understand where you're coming from but unfortunately you have to accept that they are within the rules. You may find it's a different story when you get out at Novice, because as others have said by that time people will be winning more points and will either get bumped up to Elementary . What are the rules for qualifying for the Area Festivals at Prelim now? That would be a better bet, I went with a friend to the Novice AF round here a few years ago and it was lovely.:)
 
TicTac said:
However I was always told that you should be training your horse to the level above that which you wish to compete at.
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I was told to do that too but I find that makes shows a bit boring :p I tend to compete at or slightly above the level I'm training at!;):D Nothing like a bit of added pressure ;)
 
For the petplan i believe you need to get 2x 62% at prelim. Me and my horse are aiming for petplan and under 25 champs as it is very difficult to get regional qual
 
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