BD Rule Changes.............

'Neck straps are now permitted at all levels both for working in and for tests.' Very sensible IMO

'Rising trot is permitted in the medium and extended trot movements at Medium level.' RESULT !!! As someone with an incredible dodgy back who is enduring sharp shooting pains in an effort to hold a long diagonal of extended trot this will be a huge benefit to me. I suspect there will be outcry of 'dumbing down' which I can kind of appreciate, but this has made my day :)
 
I think that reverting Prelims to Rest and Open is good too. It used to be hugely confusing trying to explain Q and NQ sections to a newbie and how it was that I could be NQ in a Q section...
 
ihatework said:
Massive change yes, but that was one I think most of us knew for certain was on its way.
I didn't have a clue that rising in mediums was being introduced.
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^^this. I'm quite pleased but I do think perhaps I'll never really learn to sit extended trot at this rate!
 
My daughter spotted the 'bling' earlier and proceeded to dance and exclaim around the living room realising she can now indulge her love of all things sparkly properly with the blingy mane bands.......
 
I think the rule changes are all very positive this time round. Well done to BD for listening and working with the members.

Just to re-iterate, you still have to do your medium test in sitting trot, but you can rise for the medium/extended trot movement in the test.
 
Let me get this right. P17 is in and N35 is out as of 01/12/13? Am creating winter schedules for dressage so this will make a difference :)
 
All good, positive changes for us apart from deleting N35 (It's our lucky test) and the spangly, sparkly blingly stuff. Each to their own but I just don't get it, sorry peeps :). Neckstraps is a huge positive, good on BD for it.
 
Help a dressage newbie out here. . Half marks?! After the scores at the euros I can understand the need at that level but for prelim?!
Anyone enlighten me?

I event and was just thinking about doing some open prelims to see how we get on.
 
I'm not keen on half marks for low levels (we got them in aust a year ago i think) they seem to encourage the 6-7 judges who now give a 7.5 for something I personally think deserves an 8. Friends' dressage tests not mine! :D
 
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misswagtails said:
Help a dressage newbie out here. . Half marks?! After the scores at the euros I can understand the need at that level but for prelim?!
Anyone enlighten me?

I event and was just thinking about doing some open prelims to see how we get on.
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It is debatable at lower levels how much half marks will help, however I write for dressage judges a lot and so often (even at Prelim and Novice) the judge will um and ahh about what mark to give and it may well be in the middle of two marks so giving the lower mark would be harsh but it wasnt quite deserving of the higher mark - hence where half marks will help.

For example on Saturday we were at a novice BD class, the combination in question were not having the greatest day so the judge was struggling with the marks to give - 5 would have been harsh and a bit unjust when this is just novice and we are not expecting Valegro to appear down the center line. Yet 6 was too generous and would have given the rider the impression that there was nothing that 'wrong' with how the horse was performing. 5.5 would have been the perfect score for her, because it wasnt bad enough for a 5 (sufficient) but it wasnt 'satisfactory' either - it was sufficient i.e. movement performed, but the horse needed to come off its forehand and the transition needed better balance before it could be deemed 'satisfactory'. She got the 6 in the end because 5 would have been too harsh, but if half marks were available then it would have been a 5.5 - the judge even said 'she's squeezed a 6 out of me' on a number of occasions.

Equally when it comes to getting the higher marks (7's and above), sometimes when you have a very correct horse that has good balance and rhythm but isnt flashy or 'wow' as a lot of judges like to say, then they might currently only get 7's because its not 'wow'. However when half marks come in, regardless of level, if the movement is really good and well performed but not amazing then you would be more likely to get a 7.5 because it was so good - yes its not a wow worthy 8 or 9 but it does deserve more than a 7.

It will be interesting to see how the judges use it - after doing so much writing recently I know how much judges deliberate over marks sometimes so I wonder if it will be a cop out of giving a good mark (it might become easier to give a 6.5 instead of ever giving a 7), or whether judges will use it to give better marks when they want to give more than a 6 or 7 but cant give a high mark for a small reason.
 
Thank you kc. I think that's what worries me. Will everyone just get .5 of a mark lower?!

I see where you're coming from with your example of the lady 5-6 but realistically how often does that happen? If she was 'squeezing 6's" surely she'd have just got some 5's and some 6's. (can you tell I'm new ish to dressage?!)

I'm all for honesty in dressage marking if it was rubbish it was rubbish. Write a constructive comment on the end tell me why and what to do to improve it and I'm happy.

I'd like to pick up on the 'wow' factor but I think that's a conversation for another thread! :)

Thanks again kc. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out!
 
misswagtails said:
Thank you kc. I think that's what worries me. Will everyone just get .5 of a mark lower?!

I see where you're coming from with your example of the lady 5-6 but realistically how often does that happen? If she was 'squeezing 6's" surely she'd have just got some 5's and some 6's. (can you tell I'm new ish to dressage?!)

I'm all for honesty in dressage marking if it was rubbish it was rubbish. Write a constructive comment on the end tell me why and what to do to improve it and I'm happy.

I'd like to pick up on the 'wow' factor but I think that's a conversation for another thread! :)

Thanks again kc. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out!
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It could easily go either way - you might get more people getting .5 lower, or on the other hand judges that have been wanting to give more than say a 6 or 7 but cant justify the 7 or 8 will give .5 higher. Fingers crossed the judges use it fairly and will reward combinations where they can, and only give .5 lower if it really didnt deserve the full mark higher. My main concern is that judges are reluctant as it is to give 8's or 9's so I worry this is going to be another excuse for them to cop out of rewarding good work - we will just have to wait and see!

I'll report back around Xmas if I'm still writing as much as I am now and let you all know how they are being used!

As for the wow factor conversation, I think that one will be a tricky thread that divide opinion so if you fancy starting it feel free and I will contribute, but be prepared for a big debate :eek:
 
I don't imagine it will result in much of a difference in actual marks at lower levels.. The judges I have written for tend to work on the theory that if they are generous and mark up for one movement they will mark down for another.
 
I'm torn with the whole half marks principle. I kind of agree with this:

kc100 said:
For example on Saturday we were at a novice BD class, the combination in question were not having the greatest day so the judge was struggling with the marks to give - 5 would have been harsh and a bit unjust when this is just novice and we are not expecting Valegro to appear down the center line. Yet 6 was too generous and would have given the rider the impression that there was nothing that 'wrong' with how the horse was performing. 5.5 would have been the perfect score for her, because it wasnt bad enough for a 5 (sufficient) but it wasnt 'satisfactory' either - it was sufficient i.e. movement performed, but the horse needed to come off its forehand and the transition needed better balance before it could be deemed 'satisfactory'. She got the 6 in the end because 5 would have been too harsh, but if half marks were available then it would have been a 5.5 - the judge even said 'she's squeezed a 6 out of me' on a number of occasions.
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But then I think I'm more swayed to this:

misswagtails said:
I'm all for honesty in dressage marking if it was rubbish it was rubbish. Write a constructive comment on the end tell me why and what to do to improve it and I'm happy.
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I'd rather know where I need to improve rather than be marked over generously. Don't get me wrong I'm no dressage expert, we have only just started at unaffiliated Prelim level and our marks aren't great. But I do prefer to see our marks improving because we've worked hard to achieve that thanks to the CC at the bottom of the sheet and a good instructor, rather than thinking the judge is being over kind and therefore awarding us the half mark when in fact it would have previously warranted the lower of the two whole marks.
 
Jobi-Wan Kenobi said:
I'm torn with the whole half marks principle. I kind of agree with this:



But then I think I'm more swayed to this:



I'd rather know where I need to improve rather than be marked over generously. Don't get me wrong I'm no dressage expert, we have only just started at unaffiliated Prelim level and our marks aren't great. But I do prefer to see our marks improving because we've worked hard to achieve that thanks to the CC at the bottom of the sheet and a good instructor, rather than thinking the judge is being over kind and therefore awarding us the half mark when in fact it would have previously warranted the lower of the two whole marks.
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Honesty is all well and good, but then when we start getting lots of 5's and a score in the 50% region we'd moan about how harsh the judge is, write it off as a bad day and ignore that sheet because the judge was mean :p

Us dressage lot are a pain, we say we want honesty yet we cant cope with it when we get it and blame the judge, hoping that we never get them in a test again!

Have to say though it would be nice to see more judges offering constructive criticism, the amount of tests I have done where it has been pure negatives and nothing positive is soul destroying, especially unaffiliated. I think some judges need to remember where they are when they are doing unaff, yes its great they are also BD listed judges but some of us cant afford BD and are not ready for it anyway so dont want to be discouraged from the sport with a test sheet that doesnt contain one nice word.

But to be fair to the judge I wrote for at the weekend, she was wonderful - loads of constructive criticism, and even took the time at the end of some tests to speak to the riders to explain some of the comments she'd made and what she'd like to see the rider work on for next time. Wish there were more like her!
 
Hmm I don't tend to ignore a sheet "because they were mean" if what they've written in the sheet is correct. It's the ones that have written something completely random like they weren't watching/ didn't seem to understand what was going on!
But I will agree its nice to have one compliment on your sheet!

I have gotten really annoyed once At an event because I got a bad score but when I saw the rest of the section I quickly calmed. I was in my usual space after dressage, the judge was harsh everyone was marked the same. .

If you can't take someone judging your horse fairly (even when it's bucking round a 20m circle)don't compete.
 
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