"BE set to act as unaffiliated events poach members"

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alwaysbroke

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Atricle p6 this months Eventing mag.

Mike Etherington-Smith has been asked by many people what BE is going to do about this. BE are looking to communicate the benefits of competing with BE.

It has been questioned if events that run BE should be allowed to run unaffilated, Nigel Taylor has defended the option
"It benfits the sport by prompting riders to try eventing...organisers need to make a living.....we offered more events to BE but were turned down so we chose to run unaffilated. Many riders cant afford to join BE (this year) or only wanted to run once or twice but if they buy a day ticket they are put straight to the back of the queue in a ballot. Unaffiliated prevents them from leaving the sport altohether."


I have said many times our family is unfortunatly not in the postion to afford BE but 4 of us really want to continue in the sport. It would be so disapointing if events were not allowed to run aff and unaff.

How long is it going to take for BE to listen to is members and ex-members? It appears that Nigel Tayor is able to!
 
FFS, it's BE's fault that people like me have to go unaff in the first place, they need to get a grip. It's all about the money.
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That would be outrageous if BE banned events from holding aff and unaff!!!

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Ditto that!

Do they want to make competitive horse riding any more elite (ie expensive) than it already is?
 
If BE did ban places from running both should think the organisers would be pretty p*ssed off as I'd imagine they make as much money if not more from running unaffil as they don't have to hand so much over to BE, could be totally wrong though!
 
If BE made an ultimatum to the events that hold both aff and unaff it would be interesting to see what way the organisers chose to go, could leave BE very red faced if events told BE where to stick it.

Would BE then also not be boardering on a monopoly?
 
The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw this was "I bet they're going to have meetings and more meetings about this, when the logical thing to do would be lower the entry fees..."
 
I wonder how that would affect Riding Clubs such as Solihull. They can't not hold events for members or indeed the inter club events. Sounds very arrogant to me.
 
So BE are all for turning eventing into a truly elitist sport then?! Also a lot of PC events are run around BE track around us... what about them? I simply cannot afford to educate my young horse around BE events all the time, and so the unaff fills a gap for me nicely.... hmmmm!!!!
 
Interesting to read evryones thoughts which all seem to be the ones I had when I read the article.

Seems to me all BE have to do is look at the posts on here on a regualar basis to see what will encourage, not discourage memebership.
 
Eighteen years ago places were not allowed to hold affiliated and unaffiliated events. Being allowed to do both is relatively recent. I believe that BE cannot now do this under EU rules, it would be an unfair restraint of trade. They could, of course, not hold BE events at places that run unaffiliated but that would take so many venues out of the calendar that it would collapse.

I tried posting on the BE forum this time last year looking for constructive suggestions as to how BE could get the cost of competing down. Boy, did I get savaged, or what!!!!

I feel now like saying "I told you so!"

The fact is, the BE finances will not hold up without grass roots members any more, they provided over 50% of the income in 2008.

What they need to do is work out why an Equestrian Centre local to me can run an unaffiliated ODE which is identical in all respects (as a rider) to the BE ones they hold, for an entry fee just over half the cost of the BE event.

DO something, BE!!!!
 
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What they need to do is work out why an Equestrian Centre local to me can run an unaffiliated ODE which is identical in all respects (as a rider) to the BE ones they hold, for an entry fee just over half the cost of the BE event.

DO something, BE!!!!

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Amen to that!!
 
Its been said on here before many times... BE seems to be all about greed. Nothing about preserving and promoting our sport, or about the riders who hold the greatest passion for the sport - whether they are born into millions or scraping the barrell like the majority of us!
 
Some of the answers I got were amazing. Like "tell people to get off their backsides and go to the AGM and vote"

That meeting is midweek and was in London. The people having a right go at me had NO IDEA how little money most people have to spare, or that they WORK to get the money they have and can't just take a day off willy-nilly, or that it costs £270 to go from Manchester to London by train.
 
This is what I wrote in December 2008. The replies have been deleted.

I posted this in ask BE. There's been no reply from , and I wondered what other members thought? Would you rather pay less and jump less "designer" fences?

Has BE as an organisation sat themselves down and worked out not "how much to put the fees up to cover the costs of an event," but "how to bring the costs down to something that ordinary people can afford in a recession"?

Here's a few for starters:

1) Limit the number of artistically dressed fences on courses and go back to good plain logs, tyres and pallisades like wot we used to jump in the old days. I love seeing chainsaw carved teddy bears, but at the moment it looks too expensive for me to get there next year to even see them. If it's plain or nothing, I'll take plain please.

2) Realise that good plain hunter trials courses at Intro and PN Sorry BE90 and BE100 do NOT require the expensive services of a "name" course designer, and that there are plenty of amateurs out there perfectly capable of designing straightforward figure-of-eight 90cm showjumping courses without paying top BSJA course builder fees either.

3) Stop building new fences every year just to have a bit of a change. If it's a question of jumping the same course as I jumped last year, or not jumping at all, then I'll take the same course as last year thankyou.

4) Stop "ground conditioning" hard ground with the spikey machines for the lower height courses. It must cost a packet to get the machine there and have a driver spike the course. As far as I can tell as a rider they do almost no good at all except for putting a pretty pattern of holes in the ground. If a horse can't jump a metre or less on hard ground without the holes then it couldn't jump on hard ground with the holes either.

That's just for starters, I'm sure a brainstorming session of members with business and eventing experience could come up with a LOT more. And maybe we should ask Equestrian Centres like Eland how they can run non-BE events for so much less, over the same course, (and give refunds if it's cancelled too) and get some ideas from them? If ideas like this could be implemented, then far from the automatic assumption that eventing should just cost more to provide more of the same thing, then maybe we could actually bring the fees DOWN !
 
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What they need to do is work out why an Equestrian Centre local to me can run an unaffiliated ODE which is identical in all respects (as a rider) to the BE ones they hold, for an entry fee just over half the cost of the BE event.

DO something, BE!!!!

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We are lucky to have one near us that does the same, usually runs 2 a year plus 3/4 HT's, half the price and truely worthwhile prizes. Would hate to lose it.

ps its Eland I am talking about!
 
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Stop "ground conditioning" hard ground with the spikey machines for the lower height courses. It must cost a packet to get the machine there and have a driver spike the course. As far as I can tell as a rider they do almost no good at all except for putting a pretty pattern of holes in the ground. If a horse can't jump a metre or less on hard ground without the holes then it couldn't jump on hard ground with the holes either

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Sorry disagree with this point! Aerovating it when done properly can help hugely, especially if they get some last minute rain as it stops it sitting on the surface and works it in a bit better. I have also been on courses which have been improved HUGELY by aerovating, and I wouldn't have run if the ground hadn't been worked on.
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Agree in general though..
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The reason affiliated venues make more out of running unaffiliated events is that they aren't paying any fees to BE & they can staff them (ie starters / scorers) with local volunteers !!
Simples !

Also isn't the FA the only sporting association to have more paid staff than BE?
 
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Also isn't the FA the only sporting association to have more paid staff than BE?

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TBH that really wouldnt surprise me!!! In their posh company cars...etc etc...
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I totally understand your preference to have the ground aerovated Kat. I'd love to see the sums.

I reckon it probably costs in the thousands to lease (or depreciate) the machine, load it up on a lorry and deliver it to the venue and collect it again, pay the driver, maintain the machine and store it over winter. I think BE have several machines and it wouldn't surprise me if events that run at 90 and 100 only could reduce their entry fees by pounds if the ground was not conditioned. It might just make the difference between people being able to afford it at all.

Of course any suggestion of reducing costs is irrelevant if events were full. Does anyone who competed this year know what the ballot situation was, and whether non-balloting events were full or not??
 
I tend to keep an eye on BDWP throughout the season, some events ballloted at lower levels, but others actually cancelled one of the 2 days planned, ok these tended to be new events. Entries at others did appear to be down to me and entries stayed open longer.
 
BE could go the way that BS has and ban the members from competing as an owner or rider or officiating at any unaffliated show. (I know it is for prize money over £10)

Don't forget that judges and course builders are also BS members
 
I'll bet that BS rule breaches Human Rights legislation. If BS wasn't a monopoly, maybe not, but I'd eat my hat if that would stand up in court.

Whatever, it is totally outrageous!
 
I agree with everything else you've said cpt but I would simply not run unless the ground is aerovated. Simple as that. I want to be able to ride my horse for as long as possible and running over hard ground 'ro save money' would simply mean I wouldn't event at all!
 
Richmond used to run unaff as well as aff events. When a choice had to be made they chose to run only aff events so it may be that if told to choose venues may not choose the unaff option.
 
It might well cost a lot, but I estimate that they would make a bigger loss in lost entries. I for one would not enter an event over the summer months that I knew were not going to undertake any work on the ground. I might only be jumping my horse over 1m course, but I don't want to do that on rock hard untreated ground it's not worth it to me, I'd rather wait for another day. I totally agree that BE is an expensive enterprise but would rather costs were stripped out at Head Office that at the actual events themselves
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I have it direct from a BE event organiser that the first year they ran their event they only just broke even as they had to pay BE so much in fees! I wish we could mail the link to this (and other similar posts) to Mr Etherington Smith and co. They are just so out of touch with their market.
 
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