Beater in your horse field....

Amye

Amye

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So Saturday morning I had arranged to go on a hack with my mum and the grey beastie. We'd arranged to borrow another horse from the yard so we'd have one each, turned up at the yard around 9am to find a shoot going on.

The beaters were in the field next to our horses waving white bags/flags and the horses were clearly frightened and galloping about. There are 3 fields next to each other which back onto a small section of woods (where I can only assume all the birds they were trying to shoot were). I can't do anything about them being in the fields next to my horses, BUT when I went to catch my horse one of them had made their way into the middle horse field, and was obviously passing through our horses three fields to keep the birds going this way.

My question is, would you be annoyed if you found a beater in your horses fields??? I spoke to a few people at the yard and no one seemed to know if they had permission to be there or not. Even if they had got permission from the YO shouldn't they have told us they might be coming into our fields?

I only got an email that morning to tell me the shoot was going to be in the fields BEHIND my horse (I don't check my emails every morning so didn't see this before I went down) but nothing about them being in the horse fields.
 
Unless they had permission to be in the field they should not be. But I would far rather have a beater in the field to ensure the birds were moving away than have shooters firing with a possible over run toward the horses. Plus I would hope that someone working in countryside management would be reasonably respectful about damage to fences etc and so preferable to a walker off the track for example.

Perhaps you could ask the YO to use a text system or pin up an old fashioned hard copy notice to let liveries know that there is a shoot happening? I know most people have email on their phones these days - but I'm another who doesn't!
 
This is between you and your YO, they own the fields and if they had given blanket permission for the shoot to be on their land then the beaters had every right to be there and they would not expect to ask anyone else, they would have been employed to do a job not go round speaking to horse owners.

As a YO I would not inform my clients of something fairly major by email at the last minute it is not fair, is no way to run a business and you need to let them know you would expect more notice so you could have brought your horse in if required, much the same as when I know the hunt are in the area I would let everyone know so they have the option of getting theirs in.
 
Thank you for your replies.

The field next to the horses (where most of the beaters were) actually belongs to the farm next door to the yard, not the yard itself. I know I can't do anything about them being there, and I know that the shoot don't have to tell us they're going to be there so i'm not complaining about that.

I guess I wanted to double-check I wasn't overreacting before I raise it to the YO. I'm not on a whole 'they can't shoot around my horses' rant because if it's not my land then it's not up to me. But I was a bit put out that I turned up to find my horse and his fieldmates, plus the horses in the field next to him, galloping about with a beater in their field waving his flag about, the only (late) communication I got was that the shoot was going to be in the fields behind my horse (so on the other farm) but nothing about them actually being in the fields with the horses. If i'd known I would have left him in over night so he wasn't wound up for our hack.
 
I'd be cross if anyone was in my field without permission. Stupid person presumably had no idea that your horses weren't dangerous? Actually with all that going on they might have been if they were galloping around. If your YO didn't give them permission they were trespassing, whatever the reason.
 
I would be extremely annoyed and would have had it out with the person in your fields there and then. I would also have informed them that you needed far more notice than just an email that morning so that you could have got your horses in to keep them safe and also not made arrangements to go for a nice ride when your horses were now wound up to hell! I would have told the person in your field to get out immediately and do they know how dangerous and rude it is to shoot so close to horses. This sort of thing drives me nuts, so selfish. But hey, I dont agree with shooting full stop. The odd time I've seen anyone remotely look like they're shooting anywhere near the border with my field I am out there telling them to back off. I dont care if they have a "right" to shoot on the farmers land or not, they have no right to cause upset and potential injuries to my animals. It's called respect. I have a right to ride in all the farmers fields round me (Scottish law) but I dont, I only ride round stubble fields after I've specifically asked).
 
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I would be very annoyed at someone in my horses field waving a flag, with or without permission. Although our horses are all used to flags i think they might be worried about a strange person waving one.
 
You need to check whether there was permission given by YO and ask you are given more notice in future if it is a problem. I have no issue with beaters pushing our fields through regularly - I couldn't deal with a horse who went to pot every time a man waving a bag walked past. So long as they weren't shooting at your horses, I really consider it a non issue.
 
It may well be that the YOer does not have the right to stop the beaters even if they own the land as the sporting rights are often separated from freehold .
Usually this sort of thing can be sorted out with a conversation between the yard owner and the shoot .
IME the horses bother less whe they see the performance it's beaters they hear but see that really wind them up .
 
rascal said:
I would be very annoyed at someone in my horses field waving a flag, with or without permission. Although our horses are all used to flags i think they might be worried about a strange person waving one.
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Horses need to just get on with life .
 
A local shoot used the yard where I was at to shoot over, one day I was in my horses stable when a load of shot landed on the roof
making my horse jump and crush me against a wall. Needless to say I had a few choice words with the shoot organiser, who was extremely apologetic and very careful thereafter
 
Goldenstar said:
Horses need to just get on with life .
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Umm... really? Any horse can take fright if faced with a situation its not used to especially on its own patch. Having got a retired horse whose competition career was ended due to a field injury, I personally would not like to risk my horses tanking about the field due to someone else being selfish with their own activities.
 
No one can definitely say until the morning of the shoot or late the night before where it is going to be. Only a vague idea of they are shooting wild geese. No one knows where they will settle for the night.

Pheasant shoots are different and they are generally released into certain areas. I'm not a fan of that as the pheasants are pretty tame.
 
rascal said:
Having lost our old horse who fatally injured himself due to idiots shooting in OUR FIELD WITHOUT PERMISSION I HATE SHOOTING AND ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT! Sorry if you disagree.
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But when you are keeping a horse in the countryside, probably in the confines of shoot syndicates, that attitude is unhelpful and a bit mindless. We shoot and we have horses, both within close proximity, it is better for the horses to get used to the shooting - the two hobbies have to co exist and fretting about the horses' reaction to a man walking through a field with a bag nailed to a stick is not conducive to anything.
 
That's a bit annoying, but it happens. We get rabbit shooters in our fields sometimes that are shooting for the neighbouring farmer. My horse spooked once as I was chatting to the guy in full camouflage gear who then moved, I think my horse hadn't seen him lol.

Good luck to someone waving a flag around our oafs and mule I'd say!
 
Thanks everyone!! Glad i'm not overreacting by being frustrated by it all.

I was rather annoyed tbh. I didn't say anything to the beater at the time as I was alone and he was on one side of me with the rest of the beaters in the field the other side so was a little wary of saying anything that may come across aggressive.

I think if it had *just* been him the horses wouldn't have been galloping about as much as they're normally pretty good, but one in my field is particularly skittish and he does set off the rest - so the combination of alot of people in the field next to them waving things and making noise and the person in their fields didn't help. Especially as the field next to them is normally completely empty with nothing going on, so all the shooting etc was very abnormal for them all.

Plus with thefts etc that go on coming to get your horse in to find a stranger in the fields is not something I like to be faced with!

I would have liked proper notice from my YO and I'm glad the majority of you all agree, as I think the same morning is a bit late, especially as we'd arranged to go out. I will definitely mention to them for the future.
 
Our horses live on the edge of a village, not really in the countryside. The landowner does not allow shooting on his land. The people who killed our horse had no right to be there, some people are responsible about shooting (and a good many other things) others are not. We can not all share the same views.
 
I get that it happens and I'm aware that shoots will go on and there's nothing I can do about it.

I guess that it was doubly annoying as we'd arranged to go out that day and I was a bit in shock to find a stranger in the fields which no one else at the yard seemed to be aware of.

A little bit of forewarning that people may be in our fields would've been nice, that's all really! :D

EKW said:
No one can definitely say until the morning of the shoot or late the night before where it is going to be. Only a vague idea of they are shooting wild geese. No one knows where they will settle for the night.

Pheasant shoots are different and they are generally released into certain areas. I'm not a fan of that as the pheasants are pretty tame.
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They were definitely shooting pheasants.
 
Manners would dictate you were informed/asked first. However, a bit like the regular helicopter threads, I like to think of things like this as good opportunities for broadening my horses' minds...I'm sure 99% of horses would settle down pretty quickly and if they didn't, I'd be exposing them to more unusual sights to make sure they did.
 
Nudibranch said:
Manners would dictate you were informed/asked first. However, a bit like the regular helicopter threads, I like to think of things like this as good opportunities for broadening my horses' minds...I'm sure 99% of horses would settle down pretty quickly and if they didn't, I'd be exposing them to more unusual sights to make sure they did.
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agree in theory, but actually for me it would depend on the horse. As someone mentioned upthread, field injuries can be career ending -
my old girl has ended her dressage career through hooning round the field and is only now managing to look sound again. I'd be incensed if something so avoidable caused her to have another accident. She's pretty worldly ;) but she's a drama llama. I'd pop her in her box if I knew something like this was likely.

My other horse could happily whizz round the field with her tail over her back 'broadening her mind' and I'd only be sad for the damage she did to the grass...

Either way I'm lucky my YO is on good terms with the various hunts and shoots so we get plenty of warning to manage as we see fit. I'd be having a polite word and seeing if you can set up a system to get more notice.
 
RunToEarth said:
But when you are keeping a horse in the countryside, probably in the confines of shoot syndicates, that attitude is unhelpful and a bit mindless. We shoot and we have horses, both within close proximity, it is better for the horses to get used to the shooting - the two hobbies have to co exist and fretting about the horses' reaction to a man walking through a field with a bag nailed to a stick is not conducive to anything.
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Why is it "unhelpful and a bit mindless" for her to have an opinion against shooting and to say she objects to having people walking through her private field? I have lived and kept horses in the rural country all my life yet I do not agree with certain country pursuits (namely shooting, hunting etc.). Why should I? There is a pheasant shoot down the hill from us, thankfully we are far enough away for it not to be an issue (and I am delighted when I see pheasants coming up my way as they've successfully escaped the shoot area). Its extremely unhelpful for shooting folk to not accept that what they do upsets livestock especially animals such as horses. And why on earth should people just accept some strange bloke wondering about PRIVATE land flapping a sodding bag?! Anyone would have a right to be livid.
 
Sounds as though potentially YO was made aware by neighbouring farm owner that shoot wpuld be on their land and passed that on. Then beaters ended up in the wrong field unaware of exact boundary?

I'd probably just have walked over and asked who had told them to be there as could well just be a communication issue.

With regards to time YO told you that might depend on type of yard... I've been at one where all horses had to be in (full or DIY livery) when there was a shoot on regardless of what owners might have otherwise done because YO felt that safest. Some might have preferred to leave horses unconfined but YO wanted one rule for all.

Eta: on the same yard I was quite surprised when I heard shots on a hack... Came across some people with guns and asked them... Apparently shooting pigeons didn't count as 'a shoot' and so YO didn't inform us or bring horses in for that... Quite a surprise whilst hacking on their land!
 
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MagicMelon said:
Why is it "unhelpful and a bit mindless" for her to have an opinion against shooting and to say she objects to having people walking through her private field?
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I wasn't referring to her dislike of the sport, that is her opinion and nothing to do with me. More stating that if you are surrounded by shooting, it makes sense to work with them in the interests of desensitising your horse.

I have lived and kept horses in the rural country all my life yet I do not agree with certain country pursuits (namely shooting, hunting etc.). Why should I? There is a pheasant shoot down the hill from us, thankfully we are far enough away for it not to be an issue (and I am delighted when I see pheasants coming up my way as they've successfully escaped the shoot area). Its extremely unhelpful for shooting folk to not accept that what they do upsets livestock especially animals such as horses.
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The problem is that there are so many smallholdings, small syndicates and small yards popping up, it is difficult to swing a cat without hitting a horse in a lot of the countryside, and equine women do seem to be the most precious when it comes to not being allowed to do anything within a 10 miles radius of Sparkle. It is difficult for us as we have livestock and horses and shoot, have worked hard with horses to desensitise them so don't really see the problem five miles away.

And why on earth should people just accept some strange bloke wondering about PRIVATE land flapping a sodding bag?! Anyone would have a right to be livid.
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I hadn't realised the OP was on private land, I assumed she was a livery on the yard. It's poor form on the YO's part if they hadn't let her know, yes.
 
MagicMelon said:
Why is it "unhelpful and a bit mindless" for her to have an opinion against shooting and to say she objects to having people walking through her private field? I have lived and kept horses in the rural country all my life yet I do not agree with certain country pursuits (namely shooting, hunting etc.). Why should I? There is a pheasant shoot down the hill from us, thankfully we are far enough away for it not to be an issue (and I am delighted when I see pheasants coming up my way as they've successfully escaped the shoot area). Its extremely unhelpful for shooting folk to not accept that what they do upsets livestock especially animals such as horses. And why on earth should people just accept some strange bloke wondering about PRIVATE land flapping a sodding bag?! Anyone would have a right to be livid.
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Well the man with the bag might well have a legal right to be doing what they are doing .
If this is the case then the YOer just need to tell the liverys the dates do they may bring their horse in if they choose
My OH has a small shoot based on a farm were there is a DIY livery yard the liverys are told every other Friday During the season there will be a shoot .
I don't think any of them bring their horses in but they can decide what to do and that's the thing the YOer ought really have told everyone if the shoot have not given the YOer the dates then the YOer needs to sort it out .
 
Since moving here 2 years ago we have had to get used to the shoot.
My horses are pretty used to it now.
I tried to ride before or after so minimize the change or running in to them!

Ive seen them beating in the field next to the horse and walking through fields with horses in.
I think they would be pretty sensible in that if they did need to beat in the field with horses they tried to keep to the other side and stop if the horses started going crazy and running around.

However im not going to complain as we are basically on their land.
The whole area is owned by an estate.
They are part of a long standing club and tradition.

If the horse owners start complaining it will be us that looses out.

The horses need to get on with life and get used to it.
 
milliepops said:
agree in theory, but actually for me it would depend on the horse. As someone mentioned upthread, field injuries can be career ending -
my old girl has ended her dressage career through hooning round the field and is only now managing to look sound again. I'd be incensed if something so avoidable caused her to have another accident. She's pretty worldly ;) but she's a drama llama. I'd pop her in her box if I knew something like this was likely.

My other horse could happily whizz round the field with her tail over her back 'broadening her mind' and I'd only be sad for the damage she did to the grass...

Either way I'm lucky my YO is on good terms with the various hunts and shoots so we get plenty of warning to manage as we see fit. I'd be having a polite word and seeing if you can set up a system to get more notice.
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Field injuries can also be the end of a horse, that you have had for 27 years. Just because someone wants to shoot, regardless of being told by the landowner that they can not use his field for that purpose. All that old horse wanted was to live out his remaining few months/years in peace and quiet. He was almost blind due to uvitus and of course the guns upset him. The inconsiderate idiots who were shooting are not the ones who had to deal with the whole mess they left behind. I was the one who had to pick up the pieces.
 
Goldenstar said:
Horses need to just get on with life .
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Oh lord yes. I took my nutty ID to watch the olympic mens cycling road race. He thought it was the best thing ever ,sirens ,thousands of people (all potentially with food) Fed sweets by french school kids (avey vous des bon bons pour moi,s il vous plait).What more could an Irish draught want!Ever sice then he has had a thing for cyclists .I suspect thet all local cycling clubs have his picture on the wall ,as ,to be avoided at all costs. Yes ,horses need to get on with life.
 
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