Beaters and shooters practically trying to kill us?!

HashRouge said:
Hang on, no need to attack the OP! If you'd read the thread clearly she's already stated that she did not realise it was a shoot (and has explained why she didn't realise). She has also mentioned that she actually spoke to one of the beaters and asked if they were dog training. He did not explain to her what was going on.
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This! Sorry but did you even read the OP? She clearly did not realise they were shooting until it was too late so Im not sure why youre "I would not put my horse in that situation" is really relevant. The OP didnt do it deliberatly.
Its not a question of them doing something illegal. Its a case of them being inconsiderate and causing danger to others.
I would think that it would be common knowledge that loud noises could potentially spook a horse and cause danger to the horse and rider. Even my completely non horsey mum knows basics like that. Its common sense and courtesy!
 
I abhor shooting having lived amongst the french hunts and their half cut morons with no regard for anything around them.

You should follow it up with the hunt master and the police IMO, it might annoy them but it might also save them doing the same again when horses approach.
 
My dad runs shoots and I own horses

I would never ride on a shoot day

If you don't know when they are. I suggest finding out. Shooting people don't tend to care for horses, they find us pests
 
pennyturner said:
OP - If you saw the shoot, and rode happily towards it, they would assume you were OK with it. Lots of us ride horses right past guns and crow scarers regularly. Having chatted to you they would assume you realised what was going on.
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I think this be the case .
I ride my horses through shoots all the time , I dont even give it a second thought , it's possible the beaters are used to seeing unconcerned riders .
The shoots near us do give us a card so you know the dates that might be something you might look into OP .
If you know the dates you can aviod the area , and of course you now know when you see men ( and women ) with flags what is about to happen .
Shooting is a buisness employing lots of people in the countryside we need to work round it with horses .
 
PollyP99 said:
I abhor shooting having lived amongst the french hunts and their half cut morons with no regard for anything around them.

You should follow it up with the hunt master and the police IMO, it might annoy them but it might also save them doing the same again when horses approach.
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What on earth has it got to do with the local hunt ?
 
Goldenstar said:
I think this be the case .
I ride my horses through shoots all the time , I dont even give it a second thought , it's possible the beaters are used to seeing unconcerned riders .
The shoots near us do give us a card so you know the dates that might be something you might look into OP .
If you know the dates you can aviod the area , and of course you now know when you see men ( and women ) with flags what is about to happen .
Shooting is a buisness employing lots of people in the countryside we need to work round it with horses .
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But the OP didn't realise it was a shoot, if the person she spoke to said no we are beating for a shoot then the whole situation could have been different! Obviously the OP will now know what men with flags mean, tbf I have never seen them use flags around here.

We have a different shoot on each side- if I didn't ride on shoot days at all that would leave many riding days, I have never had a problem although guns are actually one of the few things that can upset Frank, we used to hack passed a clay shoot regularly and he has always been twitchy!
 
Thank you for all your replies!

I can see a bit more of both sides of the story, and I know realise to run for the hills if I see anything similar - hindsight is a wonderful thing, as they say!

I will not take responsibility for endangering my horse: the friend nor I had absolutely no idea what was happening, and he is the most precious thing to me, suggesting that does anger me. I wouldn't start this thread if I didn't want to prevent it happening again!

Certainly the experience frightened me and I think thats why my words might seem a bit dramatic and angry. So I am going to address the issue if you'd rather I worded it like that than 'report'.

Thank you all so much x
 
PollyP99 said:
I abhor shooting having lived amongst the french hunts and their half cut morons with no regard for anything around them.

You should follow it up with the hunt master and the police IMO, it might annoy them but it might also save them doing the same again when horses approach.
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??? This has got nothing to do with hunting?
 
Of course I realise OP did not know , she clearly does not understand a beater usually can't stop the guns , of course it would have been better if the beater had explained perhaps he assumed she knew or they where at cross purposes when they spoke who knows .
I don't know a lot about shooting OH does run a small shoot with a friend but I stay out of it apart from the catering as I understand it the flags are to encourage the birds to fly up.
I still think it's simply a case of OP learning from the experience and knowing what to avoid when she sees it if that is what she wants to do.
As a side point there's a livery stable on the land my OH's shoot is on they all rub along ok.
My horses got used to shooting when it became a bigger thing round here I ignored it so they did .
 
Goldenstar said:
Of course I realise OP did not know , she clearly does not understand a beater usually can't stop the guns , of course it would have been better if the beater had explained perhaps he assumed she knew or they where at cross purposes when they spoke who knows . .
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The OP says on the first post that the beat did not start until they were nearly past. Surely the beat should have been held for a minute until they had gone some way up the road?
 
The biggest problem we have had with any sort of shooting was some idiot clayshooting with the spent shot hitting leaves on the trees before hitting the road and the horses. I did try and report that one, but ten minutes on hold to 101 while trying to sort out an over excited horse who got uset about the shot, was a none starter. Ours are fairly used to shooting, as the neighbours regularly shoot vermin etc at all sorts of times of day. They also get used to lamping in the next fields over the summer months. Still can't do anything about the dangerous purple flowers which are out to get the Appy though!
 
With regards to the OP asking the beater if he was dog training and him just laughing, to be honest, he probably thought she was taking the mick and or being sarcastic! The beaters and everyone I know involved in shooting take much delight in the 'sins' of others dogs and having a laugh at their expense.
 
gunnergundog said:
With regards to the OP asking the beater if he was dog training and him just laughing, to be honest, he probably thought she was taking the mick and or being sarcastic! The beaters and everyone I know involved in shooting take much delight in the 'sins' of others dogs and having a laugh at their expense.
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This is a very valid point .
 
ycbm said:
The OP says on the first post that the beat did not start until they were nearly past. Surely the beat should have been held for a minute until they had gone some way up the road?
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That not really how it works ,
OP could not see the guns therefore it's likely the guns could not see the horses .
I think it's likely there where beaters in a wood pushing the birds towards the yellow flags the beaters with the flags then send the birds up higher ,it's not something you can slow down once it's in motion without wasting the whole drive .
Lose a drive to often and the keepers neck is on the line on a serious commercial shoot .
 
Where is the 'like' button on this goddamed awful obsolete software?

Can't be bothered to repeat all the bits I agree with -- but is it really illegal to discharge a firearm within 50 feet on the centre of the highway? Or is that case law?

I used to take shooting off a Scottish baronet and magistrate who delighted in siting one Gun on his driven pheasant shoot on the verge of an Aberdeenshire A road, stating that it wasn't illegal so long as road users didn't complaint. One did and that was the end of that little demonstration of defiance! :) Mind you, I was invited to see traditional deer coursing with deer hounds by the same gentleman before that was finally banned, so he was rather keen on skating close to the wind.
 
I wonder if they did hold the drive until OP was past? Which is what we would have done. We would have waited until the horses were past the cover and then started. My reading of the post is that the last flag was flapped as they went past it, if they were walking slowly and the drive was being held up then perhaps the shoot decided it had waited long enough? Perhaps they should have waited another minute to let OP get further away but perhaps their knowledge of horses is as broad as the OP's knowledge of shooting?

I had a dead pheasant hit my horse on the rump once, while hacking on the road, I was cross but tbh I knew they were shooting there and hoped to get past quickly.
 
tashcat said:
Thank you for all your replies!

I can see a bit more of both sides of the story, and I know realise to run for the hills if I see anything similar - hindsight is a wonderful thing, as they say!

I will not take responsibility for endangering my horse: the friend nor I had absolutely no idea what was happening, and he is the most precious thing to me, suggesting that does anger me. I wouldn't start this thread if I didn't want to prevent it happening again!

Certainly the experience frightened me and I think thats why my words might seem a bit dramatic and angry. So I am going to address the issue if you'd rather I worded it like that than 'report'.

Thank you all so much x
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I dont think anybody has suggested you are responsible for endangering your horse ,and I am sure the people shooting didnt either!
On a constructive note I would suggest you find out who runs the shoot because somebody local will know . Then contact them and try to tell them what concerned you and try to educate them . I think you will make life a lot more pleasant rather than going in with a confrontational demeanour. I do understand you felt scared ,but maybe they will explain their side as well so you may avoid it another time.
 
Dry Rot said:
Where is the 'like' button on this goddamed awful obsolete software?

Can't be bothered to repeat all the bits I agree with -- but is it really illegal to discharge a firearm within 50 feet on the centre of the highway? Or is that case law?

I used to take shooting off a Scottish baronet and magistrate who delighted in siting one Gun on his driven pheasant shoot on the verge of an Aberdeenshire A road, stating that it wasn't illegal so long as road users didn't complaint. One did and that was the end of that little demonstration of defiance! :) Mind you, I was invited to see traditional deer coursing with deer hounds by the same gentleman before that was finally banned, so he was rather keen on skating close to the wind.
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Here is the Law for you dry rot and you will see that the onus is on the complainant to prove interference. You will also see that it only covers highway and not rights of way crossing private land.

SHOOTING NEAR HIGHWAYS (E.G. ROADS & CARRIAGEWAYS)
In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to
discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of
or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is
injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as
amended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not
prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that
someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to
make a detour.
For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a
‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does
not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule
described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.
footpaths.
 
ycbm said:
The OP says on the first post that the beat did not start until they were nearly past. Surely the beat should have been held for a minute until they had gone some way up the road?
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With the best will in the world just because the beaters are not moving it does not mean birds wont fly and be shot at . The guns will be looking forward to where the birds come from so may not even notice somebody some distance away. Usually the end of a drive is marked by a whistle or horn after which guns wont shoot however the start of a drive is not marked in such a way usually.
I am trying not to labour a point but trying to do my bit to help people understand who may have little idea of how things work! The OP did not say which guns were shooting as if the first one was for example 20m from the road the far end of the line may be 250m away it may be the case that those nearest the road did not fire at all.
 
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popsdosh said:
Here is the Law for you dry rot and you will see that the onus is on the complainant to prove interference. You will also see that it only covers highway and not rights of way crossing private land.

SHOOTING NEAR HIGHWAYS (E.G. ROADS & CARRIAGEWAYS)
In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to
discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of
or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is
injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as
amended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not
prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that
someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to
make a detour.
For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a
‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does
not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule
described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.
footpaths.
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But according to that, the shoot was in the wrong. The OP was on a public highway (as she states) and I'd say that she most certainly was endangered and her passage "interrupted". From what she said, there are witnesses too, so she could prove it if she needed to (she mentions people coming out of their houses to see if they were okay). That information certainly does suggest that it would have been advisable for the shoot to have someone stationed on the road to warn anyone passing by, especially those with animals.
 
HashRouge said:
But according to that, the shoot was in the wrong. The OP was on a public highway (as she states) and I'd say that she most certainly was endangered and her passage "interrupted". From what she said, there are witnesses too, so she could prove it if she needed to (she mentions people coming out of their houses to see if they were okay). That information certainly does suggest that it would have been advisable for the shoot to have someone stationed on the road to warn anyone passing by, especially those with animals.
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Who said anybody actually discharged a weapon within 50 feet of the centre of the highway I dont think even the OP has suggested that .
This is the problem I am sure the OP was scared however things get distorted and blown out of proportion.
 
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popsdosh said:
Here is the Law for you dry rot and you will see that the onus is on the complainant to prove interference. You will also see that it only covers highway and not rights of way crossing private land.

SHOOTING NEAR HIGHWAYS (E.G. ROADS & CARRIAGEWAYS)
In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to
discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of
or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is
injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as
amended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not
prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that
someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to
make a detour.
For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a
‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does
not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule
described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.
footpaths.
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Dry rot is in Scotland though so the law will be different
 
Kat said:
Dry rot is in Scotland though so the law will be different
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I think you could see from DRs first comment that the law is the same north of the border this incident happened in England anyhow.
I was merely answering DRs enquiry about the law
 
popsdosh said:
Who said anybody actually discharged a weapon within 50 feet of the centre of the highway I dont think even the OP has suggested that .
This is the problem I am sure the OP was scared however things get distorted and blown out of proportion.
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I don't know, I was just assuming they were close from the OP's description.
 
There is a 'Code of Good Shooting Practice' which all those using guns in the countryside should abide by.
Please see: http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ca/file/COGSP_2012.pdf
Read the section on 'Horses and Walkers'.

As regards your incident I always wear a long sleeved hi-viz jacket to make it easier for others to see me and my hand signals and I always carry a whistle so that I can draw their attention to me just in case they do not know I am there.
However they clearly saw you and made absolutely made no attempt to stop the shoot while you safely passed therefore you should immediately and without any further delay contact your local police station and ask them for the name and contact details of your local firearms officer and then explain what happened to you. He will treat this incident very seriously as potentially it could have caused a very serious and nasty accident. He will visit those concerned and may well withdraw their firearms licence and if not warn them of the serious consequences that their action may have taken and if there is any future incidents their licences will not be renewed.
Guns are dangerous weapons and if people do not behave sensibly with them then they should not be allowed to use them.
 
PeterNatt said:
There is a 'Code of Good Shooting Practice' which all those using guns in the countryside should abide by.
Please see: http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ca/file/COGSP_2012.pdf
Read the section on 'Horses and Walkers'.

As regards your incident I always wear a long sleeved hi-viz jacket to make it easier for others to see me and my hand signals and I always carry a whistle so that I can draw their attention to me just in case they do not know I am there.
However they clearly saw you and made absolutely made no attempt to stop the shoot while you safely passed therefore you should immediately and without any further delay contact your local police station and ask them for the name and contact details of your local firearms officer and then explain what happened to you. He will treat this incident very seriously as potentially it could have caused a very serious and nasty accident. He will visit those concerned and may well withdraw their firearms licence and if not warn them of the serious consequences that their action may have taken and if there is any future incidents their licences will not be renewed.
Guns are dangerous weapons and if people do not behave sensibly with them then they should not be allowed to use them.
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Its an attitude like that that causes rifts . Please enlighten me as to what evidence you have gleaned from the OPs post that infers any law has been broken. Horses are dangerous weapons as well and cause accidents as well so why we are at it ban them as well is the logical conclusion.
I really think that we need to know the facts before going off on one.
If the shots were fired by a gun too close to the highway or indeed at the rider(at any distance) I would say lock them up and throw away the key .I have not seen that suggested and I am afraid as I pointed out the thread title may be a little inflamatory if not taken in context.
 
popsdosh said:
Its an attitude like that that causes rifts . Please enlighten me as to what evidence you have gleaned from the OPs post that infers any law has been broken. Horses are dangerous weapons as well and cause accidents as well so why we are at it ban them as well is the logical conclusion.
I really think that we need to know the facts before going off on one.
If the shots were fired by a gun too close to the highway or indeed at the rider(at any distance) I would say lock them up and throw away the key .I have not seen that suggested and I am afraid as I pointed out the thread title may be a little inflamatory if not taken in context.
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He didn't infer that any law had been broken (as far as I can see). Just that the actions of the shoot could have caused a serious accident and that if you use guns you ought to do so with the appropriate level of care (which I fully agree with). To be honest, I feel your attitude is far more likely to cause rifts - no-one is suggesting that guns for sporting purposes should be banned, just that their use requires care and consideration. I honestly don't see how anyone could have a problem with that, at all. I don't think the shoot in question *did* show the level of consideration that they should have done, regardless of whether or not they broke the law (which yes, I agree with you it sounds like they probably did not).
 
popsdosh said:
Its an attitude like that that causes rifts . Please enlighten me as to what evidence you have gleaned from the OPs post that infers any law has been broken. Horses are dangerous weapons as well and cause accidents as well so why we are at it ban them as well is the logical conclusion.
I really think that we need to know the facts before going off on one.
If the shots were fired by a gun too close to the highway or indeed at the rider(at any distance) I would say lock them up and throw away the key .I have not seen that suggested and I am afraid as I pointed out the thread title may be a little inflamatory if not taken in context.
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I do agree with this. I also do not see at what point the guns were fired in an unsafe manner. You probably cannot stop people waving flags near a highway, or kite flying would be banned too.
None of us know how far away anything was, if the OP feels the need she could go to the police station and report it but just bear in mind that people with guns are very, very aware of their dangers.
 
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