Bert is very lame.

I'm sorry, I know you think its flexible and they go out of their way to help you out etc, etc, but your job sounds awful! Its running your life. Between that and your parents you've got no autonomy or even free time really. Its no wonder you feel like Bert might be too much. I'm sorry you are in this situation. Its hard to see how bad things are when you're stuck in the middle of it.

Would some counselling sessions be an option? Just to talk things through with someone impartial. I actually think a life coach would be an excellent idea, but that's a bit less conventional!
 
SO1 said:
My understanding is that if you work from your bed and get a bad back doing work your organisation can be held responsible for this because they have not made sure your working conditions are optimal.

We have discussed this quite a lot at my work as I have been involved with signing off decisions on these policies after getting advice from HR experts.

We were quite informal with our HR but it was identified as a risk so we now have a person (not me) tasked with looking at our HR policies.

Our understanding is that we are required to make sure people are working safely at home and have a good posture. Our wfh policy has been based with this in mind and making sure people have workstations like in the HSE video.

Managing home workers' health and safety - HSE

A page about using computers and laptops safely at home.
www.hse.gov.uk www.hse.gov.uk
Click to expand...
This kind of thing is why a lot of charities waste money.

In the private sector you tell people to make sure they are being sensible in how they sit with their laptop at home. If someone then starts complaining of neck pain you tell them they'd better work in the office then - that usually nips any ridiculous sick leave in the bud (a return to work interview with me also nips it in the bud!)

I did 6 months interim cover at one of the big charities and it was a culture shock - for both parties.

But laptops are designed to be portable and so long as you're not sitting for hours without the big screen, proper chair etc then HSE wouldn't find the company responsible.
 
SEL said:
This kind of thing is why a lot of charities waste money.

In the private sector you tell people to make sure they are being sensible in how they sit with their laptop at home. If someone then starts complaining of neck pain you tell them they'd better work in the office then - that usually nips any ridiculous sick leave in the bud (a return to work interview with me also nips it in the bud!)

I did 6 months interim cover at one of the big charities and it was a culture shock - for both parties.

But laptops are designed to be portable and so long as you're not sitting for hours without the big screen, proper chair etc then HSE wouldn't find the company responsible.
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I was going to say, having read SO1’s work restrictions, I guarantee that’s a charity.
 
SEL said:
This kind of thing is why a lot of charities waste money.

In the private sector you tell people to make sure they are being sensible in how they sit with their laptop at home. If someone then starts complaining of neck pain you tell them they'd better work in the office then - that usually nips any ridiculous sick leave in the bud (a return to work interview with me also nips it in the bud!)

I did 6 months interim cover at one of the big charities and it was a culture shock - for both parties.

But laptops are designed to be portable and so long as you're not sitting for hours without the big screen, proper chair etc then HSE wouldn't find the company responsible.
Click to expand...


I have a friend who does IT support in the individual tack room at the back of her stable sitting on a saddle stand. Her choice. I'm not sure her employer even knows.
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The language there is fairly simple, and having looked at the document (just in case we’ve missed something on our HR advice in our company), I’m still comfortable that my duty is to provide an assessment and training, and to make suitable workstations available (computer/ keyboard/ mouse - whatever is necessary for the particular user).

I don’t read that it’s my duty to police the individual’s choice as to whether they take advantage of that. All the language is framed around doing what is reasonable to lower the risk of a hazard causing harm, and educating the worker about the hazards so that they can reduce risk. Everything is also couched in terms of reasonableness and proportionality, with explicit balance for time, money and trouble.

I don’t see a world in which, having provided training and tests, and an adequate workstation, it is likely that the company can be held liable for harm. The defense would be showing reasonable risk mitigation.

It is also worth noting that it explicitly states that there is no greater risk in DSE in working from home than in an office. And, that the primary risks identified are stress, visual issues and muscular-skeletal issues. Lack of flexibility about how work is conducted can be more risky in those factors than rigidly enforcing sitting at a desk.

And then if one takes a wider risk based approach to decision-making, I’d be considering the risks to retention, hiring success, employee wellbeing and staff culture as a greater risk than the chance that a worker raises a healthy and safety issue which may be related to improper use of DSE, where the DSE provided was suitable but the staff member chose not to make use of it in the trained, assessed and provided for manner.

So I really would revisit that decision. It’s no way to live/ work in this day and age.

DSE assessment​

Workers can complete a self-assessment provided they have been given suitable training. Where they use DSE in the home and office, your assessments should cover both situations.

You should ensure:

  • home workers can achieve a comfortable, sustainable posture while working with DSE
  • any equipment provided is safe and suitable for use
They may not necessarily need office-type furniture or equipment at home to achieve a good posture. Equally, a worker’s own furniture or equipment may not be suitable or sufficient. Use your DSE assessments to help you decide what is needed for your own workers’ situations and circumstances.

You should reduce the risks identified by your DSE assessment so far as reasonably practicable. This means balancing the level of risk against the measures needed to control the real risk in terms of money, time or trouble.
 
SO1 said:
My understanding is that if you work from your bed and get a bad back doing work your organisation can be held responsible for this because they have not made sure your working conditions are optimal.

We have discussed this quite a lot at my work as I have been involved with signing off decisions on these policies after getting advice from HR experts.

We were quite informal with our HR but it was identified as a risk so we now have a person (not me) tasked with looking at our HR policies.

Our understanding is that we are required to make sure people are working safely at home and have a good posture. Our wfh policy has been based with this in mind and making sure people have workstations like in the HSE video.

Managing home workers' health and safety - HSE

A page about using computers and laptops safely at home.
www.hse.gov.uk www.hse.gov.uk
Click to expand...
The employer has a duty of care to make sure that employees can work safely, so may need to provide a suitable desk if employees are required to wfh. If employees have the choice to wfh or at the office it is up to them to decide whether they have suitable facilities and if they use them.
 
ycbm said:
I have a friend who does IT support in the individual tack room at the back of her stable sitting on a saddle stand. Her choice. I'm not sure her employer even knows.
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I took a call from Glastonbury. I wasn't technically working but people have my mobile number. It was the Thursday so the festival wasn't in full swing and it was early in the day.

I explained where I was, that I didn't have my laptop but to go ahead with their issue and if I could help I would. I could solve the problem, talked them through the solution but said I wouldn't be available for the next few days so they would have to call the support line if something else cropped up. The client was so happy that when I was next visiting them on site they had a very nice bottle of wine waiting for me.
 
We are not now in a situation where people have to work at home, so if they choose to do so at an unsuitable work station which gives them a bad back or bad neck or RSI, that is surely their responsibility and not the employer’s? SO1 I really don’t think your employer is very flexible at all.

Ah I see you work for a charity! What you describe is why I’d never work in the charity sector again. In my experience they expect you to give everything to the job and be extremely flexible because it’s a charity and gaslight you into thinking they are a fantastic employer who really cares about their employees, when really they are not (I’m sure some charities are great to work for, but both I worked for weren’t and you were expected to give your time outside of working hours for free…. Because it was a charity, and made to feel guilty if you didn’t).
 
criso said:
It's also worth pointing out that taking a meeting occasionally from a place that isn't your normal workstation is not likely to cause serious problems to your health. The suggestion was to carry out the occasional meeting from the yard if needed,
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And you can always set the background so it looks like an office. (Some employers ban this.)
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I once took a call when I was riding, I also had to take a call when helping the vet deal with a prolapsed ewe, both callers and the vet were most impressed with my ability to multitask.

I'm glad Bertie is looking to be on the up. Hope the saddle fitting goes well
 
very pleased that Bert is appearing sound. These natives are the best but they do cause a lot of worry!

I work remotely and go to the office once a week (my choice) to sit with my team and do any catch ups, 121s etc they need or offer support. I’ve done calls from the vet hospital, my stable and my field when needed, no one cares. In terms of DSE, I have an office at home where I spend most of my time but if I fancy a sit on the sofa with my laptop it’s not a problem at all. I used to work somewhere very restrictive and after my oldie was unwell I decided enough was enough there and left due to their lack of care/consideration as to the reason I booked that day off etc. definitely something to consider in terms of work for you and also lighten the load with your parents
 
criso said:
I took a call from Glastonbury. I wasn't technically working but people have my mobile number. It was the Thursday so the festival wasn't in full swing and it was early in the day.

I explained where I was, that I didn't have my laptop but to go ahead with their issue and if I could help I would. I could solve the problem, talked them through the solution but said I wouldn't be available for the next few days so they would have to call the support line if something else cropped up. The client was so happy that when I was next visiting them on site they had a very nice bottle of wine waiting for me.
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Well done Criso, that’s how things used to work. Going the extra mile is something that seems to have fallen by the wayside . So many people now seemed to be tied to an inflexible work mindset which doesn’t always produce the results. I’m not sure if it’s a personality thing ie some people are just more accommodating than others or an organisational mindset that won’t take a step outside the box.
 
Indy said:
I once took a call when I was riding, I also had to take a call when helping the vet deal with a prolapsed ewe, both callers and the vet were most impressed with my ability to multitask.

I'm glad Bertie is looking to be on the up. Hope the saddle fitting goes well
Click to expand...

Yup, I've taken less formal work calls when out driving the pony. A quick explanation of I'm not at work/its my lunch break/etc but I'm happy to help if you don't mind the hoof beats, and its all fine.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
The employer has a duty of care to make sure that employees can work safely, so may need to provide a suitable desk if employees are required to wfh. If employees have the choice to wfh or at the office it is up to them to decide whether they have suitable facilities and if they use them.
Click to expand...
There is a requirement to work from home if anyone has Covid they are not allowed to come to the office until they test negative even if they feel well enough to work. We have provided everyone with Covid tests so they can test for Covid if they think might have it.

We also close the office for maintenance we had to close it for 2 days for PAT testing. We also closed it when the alarm broke and we couldn't get an engineer out for 3 days, and a month when we were told the windows were dangerous and needed to be replaced.

We also closed the office for August last year and are considering closing the office during the summer school holidays so people who are not on AL will need to work from home.

I know people have suggested taking zoom calls at the yard but I can't handle a horse and be on a zoom call for 1.5 hours at the same time. The saddle appointment today clashes with a 1.5 hour zoom call which requires slides and a presentation. I also can't be on in a zoom meeting and talk to vets, farriers etc at the same time.

We don't have work phones and are not allowed to use personal devices for work so I can only get calls via teams phone on laptop or my office computer. So no out of hours calls unless it is from the CEO.

We were asked if we could do more out of hour zoom meetings which actually would benefit me as I would then get the time back during weekday days which would make it easier for getting time off for eqine appointments but that has request has been turned down because people with children don't want to have their family time interrupted.

Ironically the main reason I work for charities is that although the pay is not that great the AL entitlement is normally very generous. This year I I have 36 days. Every night I am away from home I get an additional day off.

When I go Bert in August the original plan had been for me to have a massive chunk of time off in August and September to settle him in which would have been easy as we have no meetings wlth volunteers from July until the Board retreat which is towards the end of September. That didn't happen because of mum getting ill the day after I got Bert.

We have tried to persuade the trustees to try and spread the work out more evenly so is not really busy for the first 4 months of the year, and then staff having not much to do over the summer but it hasn't worked.
 
gallopingby said:
Well done Criso, that’s how things used to work. Going the extra mile is something that seems to have fallen by the wayside . So many people now seemed to be tied to an inflexible work mindset which doesn’t always produce the results. I’m not sure if it’s a personality thing ie some people are just more accommodating than others or an organisational mindset that won’t take a step outside the box.
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The other side is people who never switch off because their employer abuses mobile and email contact.

It has to work both ways. I was working with clients in different countries and sometimes from a hotel room from another country so 9-5 becomes irrelevant. So I would do a call with Singapore at 7am or with the US office at 7pm but I also had no qualms when my horse had foot problems coming in late every 6 weeks on the Monday the farrier came. I always had toil due to weekend travel it came out of.

These days I'm self employed but the client I currently work with has various offices but the main ones I deal with are Tel Aviv, The Hague and New York State. So I may take the afternoon to go to the stables but will do a Teams meeting with the US in the evening when I'm back.

Talking of parents, my mum had a fall recently, she's ok, nothing broken, but needed support and cheering up. So I flew out to Spain with the laptop and worked from the dining room table for a couple of weeks. Told the clients what I was doing who stressed if I wanted to move and reschedule any meetings to fit in to let them know.
 
SO1 said:
I also can't be on in a zoom meeting and talk to vets, farriers etc at the same time
Click to expand...

No but there are ways of working it. I assume the farrier days are fixed because he does other horses on the yard, if it was just Bert you wouldn't be tied to that day. So if the farrier is on the yard from 9 - 12 and your meeting is 10-11:30 then you ask farrier/yard if you can go first or last and do the call before/after. When I was going in to work after the farrier who always came Monday morning, I arranged to go first or at worst second.

Similarly with the vet. Arrange vet for before or after the call. If there are a few of you liaise to go first or last.

Then you're not losing all that time off work, travelling to and from or not having time to get back home in time for a meeting.

It does however depend on finding a quiet place to work from, one person works from her lorry living, I've worked in a barn with laptop on a improvised bale desk and on work being flexible to allow you to take your laptop and work from another location.
 
criso said:
I remember on one long visit reception letting me use their WiFi for my laptop.
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I’ve done this 🤣 we are lucky to have great vets. My vets even brought me coffee.

My worst was taking a call with two colleagues from the saddle and my horse sneezed. The noise was rather… flatulent… and no one believed I was on a horse until I turned the camera on 🤣
 
So we had a reminder about working from home and that amongst other things requests to work from home cannot be used to care for a pet or to attend non essential appointments near your home. These must be taken as annual leave.

We are now allowed to work from places that are not our homes but we have say where these places are and they have to be deemed safe and practical.

Bert's saddle has now been adjusted it was too narrow and reflocked so he can now start to be ridden.
 
AmyMay said:
To be fair, if you’re supposed to be working, you’re supposed to be working. Not attending vet visits, farrier visits, saddler visits….
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Right, but I'm sure a vet visit could be done in your "lunch" hour or whatnot. If SO1 doesn't even have time to talk to a vet during the day, I'm fairly sure she's not getting any kind of formal breaks or whatever.

Also, times have changed. Companies have to be flexible, especially when you are on a salary. Never in 10 years of career have I worried about taking an hour or two here and there, or even a day! It all evens out when you look at the hours where I work well over.

Most companies understand and appreciate this and care about you getting the job done, and well, not the exact number of hours you take to do it or when you do them. It's incredibly backwards to think otherwise (unless you are hourly, or not able to work the hours you need to interact with clients or colleagues or whatnot)
 
Michen said:
Most companies are not like SO1's. I've never had a company dictate when I can or cannot take annual leave.
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Depends on what job you do. If you work in events it is quite common not to be able to take leave when events are on. Finance staff can't take leave when the audit is going on. IT staff cannot take leave if there is a big website deployment or during UAT.

I can't take leave if I have meetings scheduled. In 30 years no job I have had has allowed me to take leave and miss meetings. I have a lot of meetings apart from during school holidays and Friday afternoon I can normally take off fairly easily.
 
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I used to allow my staff to extend / use flexi time and add an hour or two on to lunch times or the beginning or end of the day in order to fit in whatever they needed. If you treat people reasonably they will continue to give the best they can. Occasionally it may not be possible to accommodate but that should be the very odd time. Organisations that aren’t able to see how their rules impact on staff usually have a higher sickness / absence rate than those who are more flexible / understanding.
 
SO1 said:
Depends on what job you do. If you work in events it is quite common not to be able to take leave when events are on. Finance staff can't take leave when the audit is going on. IT staff cannot take leave if there is a big website deployment or during UAT.

I can't take leave if I have meetings scheduled. I have a lot of meetings apart from during school holidays and Friday afternoon I can normally take off fairly easily.
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Exactly. People need to understand that swannng off at the drop of a hat, or sitting on a bale of hay (whilst working 🙄) isn’t possible in all (most industries). Entitled attitudes aren’t attractive.

You clearly work very hard @SO1 and do what you can, when you can xxx
 
AmyMay said:
Exactly. People need to understand that swannng off at the drop of a hat, or sitting on a bale of hay (whilst working 🙄) isn’t possible in all (most industries). Entitled attitudes aren’t attractive.

You clearly work very hard @SO1 and do what you can, when you can xxx
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It's not an entitled attitude. And I'm not talking about "swanning off" at the drop of a hat? I'm talking about employers making life that little bit easier for their employees for other life things.

It's acknowledging that in this current time, companies are on the whole being more flexible. And companies that don't move with the times on that and allow their employees that flexibility are going to fall behind, because they simply won't attract and retain talent. SO1 obviously works very hard, it's why I'm sure she would be an excellent addition to any company, if she decides to look at any point.

It is possible in MOST industries in the corporate world to work remotely at times. There are few desk job type roles that truly cannot be done remotely, didn't covid prove that?
 
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