Best horse and hound article ever!

I am picking up your comment about scientific proof. I did believe everything I read on supplements/feed etc etc and then found to my horror, these are not regulated...and proven. (Vast majority anyway).
 
Luci07 said:
I am picking up your comment about scientific proof. I did believe everything I read on supplements/feed etc etc and then found to my horror, these are not regulated...and proven. (Vast majority anyway).
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It is disappointing that companies - selling supplements, feeds and other products - can get away with claims which are wildly inaccurate. That's certainly one aspect of the industry which needs to be drawn into line, I think.
 
JFTD said:
But actually, I do think that's part of what was said in this speech - being open to scientific revelations that do not sit easily with the received wisdom. If everyone in the industry (as opposed to owners at grass roots level) accepted new information as it becomes supported by scientific data (or indeed, doesn't), the quality and uniformity of advice given to the owners themselves would be far greater. The trouble, currently, is that not all vets, farriers, physios, instructors, YOs (or any other trusted equine "professional") agree that commercial feeds (/over-rugging / obesity) are a problem (or perhaps they are not prepared to stick their necks on the line and say that to their owners).
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This! There is so little scientific data that you have to really look for it in order to be able to make an informed opinion. The majority of people dont want to read research or spend hours looking into things. They want to get out and enjoy their horses so they take advice from people they trust, YOs/vets/farriers etc.

Even something as simple as trying to formulate a diet for your horse is nearly impossible if you dont know better. Try and find out the ingredients and composition of Spillers feeds. Its nearly impossible. Anyone would think they didnt want you to know for some reason. And the recommendations are ludicrous!

Spillers Speedy Mash Fibre is described as:

Fast soaking fibre blend for all horses and ponies including those prone to laminitis.

The recommended feeding rate for a 500kg horse in light work is 3kgs dry weight per day alongside ad lib forage .

It is no wonder horses are fat!
 
I've been knocking around horse yards since I was knee high to a grasshopper and I have honestly never seen any educational material from WHW or any other organisation with the exception of some local vet practices and the laminitis trust, so I don't think they're having much of an impact TBH.

If you look at how hard regulation of the human food market has been I don't think there is much mileage in lobbying for changes in the equine food market (as much as it would be of massive potential benefit), but you can endorse celebrity equestrians to get messages out. If Carl Hester said he's always careful not to over rug his horses for example, then you might get a few more people pricking up their ears. Or they could run social media campaigns, club in with demos, get out and do information/consultation days on big livery yards.....lots of stuff that would be more positive than a badly worded speech containing contradictory information (be open to new ideas and research....just as long as the new information isn't encouraging barefoot horses....)
 
DabDab said:
I've been knocking around horse yards since I was knee high to a grasshopper and I have honestly never seen any educational material from WHW or any other organisation with the exception of some local vet practices and the laminitis trust, so I don't think they're having much of an impact TBH.
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You've never seen their stalls at the big equestrian events, or seen any of their promotional material about horse care issues? Even back when they were the ILPH?

I'm genuinely surprised by that.
 
Ah but if you have a morbidly obese ID, you can just give it a mohawk and win Maxi Cob of the Year...

People just don't seem to recognise fat horses when they see them these days because so many are overweight it has become the norm. Overfeeding is just as neglectful as underfeeding and should be treated as such by welfare organisations.

I think the "pet" thing was a bit of a misnomer, but I think there is a big problem with owners anthropomorphising horses to the detriment of the horses' health; people just don't realise that horses don't need three meals a day, snuggly rugs because the owner is wearing a jacket, stabled when it's drizzly outside etc.
 
JFTD said:
You've never seen their stalls at the big equestrian events, or seen any of their promotional material about horse care issues? Even back when they were the ILPH?

I'm genuinely surprised by that.
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Yes I've seen stalls, but I just walk on by, like 95% of other people. Never consciously seen any material no.
 
I think the use of the word pet was perhaps a poor one, most of the horses today do not work for a living, in the sense that if they do not make someone somewhere money they would not be kept, therefore they are kept as a hobby/interest.

When I was young if you owned a horse it was to do job, ie pull the rag and bone man's cart, race horse, showjumper. To own a horse you had to be seriously wealthy and they were kept by mainly professional horseman or their employees, who in turn had learnt skill s from another professional horseman.
Now anyone can go on FB and buy something for £150, the only money that is made is by selling stuff, to the uniformed.
Most of the rugs are made in China, come in containers to be sold at vast profit, why would someone not want to sell someone a rug?
The feed is cheap basics, processed and packages so it warrants the vast mark up. Tell someone just feed hay and straw and they look at you as if you are mad.
A feed company sponsors a rider who does well, so their horse must need that feed. I wander round feed shops just to see whats there.
It amazes me how the companies have adapted to sell cheap roughage, straw, in every variety flavour, laminitic, senior, etc, and sell it at a huge profit. Hoof Kind, it makes me wince, and someone then endorses it, so its OK.
Someone with a high profile who can afford to thumb their noses at the feed companies need to promote this, and twitter and Facebook the hell out of it. Just can not think who.
 
Perhaps if WHW were to canvass the horse owning public at large, or even on here, for owners who have managed to keep their horses into healthy old age (say 25) and ask them for a break down of how they manage their horses, they could then publish "case studies" for new owners to think about. There will be descrpancies, of course, but my guess is there will be more common ground than not and it could be a valuable resource.
 
No matter what you do with horses and how you do it, there will always be some horsey person who thinks your doing it wrong and their doing better. Most of us just muck along with our big pets and do our best. :)
 
YorksG said:
Perhaps if WHW were to canvass the horse owning public at large, or even on here, for owners who have managed to keep their horses into healthy old age (say 25) and ask them for a break down of how they manage their horses, they could then publish "case studies" for new owners to think about. There will be descrpancies, of course, but my guess is there will be more common ground than not and it could be a valuable resource.
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That's an interesting idea - if done well I can imagine that being really effective
 
DabDab said:
Yes I've seen stalls, but I just walk on by, like 95% of other people. Never consciously seen any material no.
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Well to be fair, there isn't anything they can do about people not engaging with the material available (and it is available - on the internet, at their stalls, and hard copies are available). Sending paper copies to every yard in the country is impractically expensive in the internet age, given that most folk will fail to engage with them too...
 
JFTD said:
Well to be fair, there isn't anything they can do about people not engaging with the material available (and it is available - on the internet, at their stalls, and hard copies are available). Sending paper copies to every yard in the country is impractically expensive in the internet age, given that most folk will fail to engage with them too...
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That's what these funny marketing peeps are for - on the flip side I can tell you the saddle and feed brand endorsed by a whole variety of top riders, and that's information I neither need nor have been deliberately exposed to
 
It’s an interesting article and I think the fundamental message is all too true, if not well worded.

I don’t have an issue with horses being pets at all, mine are for the most part.

But I completely agree with this culture shift of over pampering horses. I’m sure to a certain degree I’m guilty of that myself. The problem is human nature. ‘We’ love our horses and in general want to do the best we can for them. So in our misguided attempt to do so we humanise them and convince ourselves our actions are justified.

It is quite a sad state of affairs really and killing with kindness certainly applies.

Like I say I’m probably just as much to blame as many others but being more aware at least helps some positive choices to be made where possible
 
DabDab said:
That's what these funny marketing peeps are for - on the flip side I can tell you the saddle and feed brand endorsed by a whole variety of top riders, and that's information I neither need nor have been deliberately exposed to
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Well I'm aware of that - although personally I have no idea which rider is involved with which brands, for the most part and certainly not in any positive manner. Doesn't register, as I don't actually think top riders are necessarily the best indicator of welfare standards, as evidenced at HOYS...

I remain really surprised that you haven't seen stuff from WHW though... They're all over my social media now, and I've seen loads of stuff over the last 20 years. Perhaps it's regional, or perhaps it's something else, but it does surprise me.


oh and the paper leaflets thing was suggested upthread - I didn't suggest it as a sensible alternative...
 
*shrugs* maybe because I'm not on facebook?

Indulge me, share a recent WHW piece of info.

I don't think top competitors are the best indicator either, but still, the information is put out in such a way that it's found its way into my brain.
 
I’m not convinced about the article. If that was the one online? I deliberately didn’t read it at first because of the quote shown on FB. I knew it would be sanctimonious and condescending to the ordinary horse owner. Having since read it due to this thread I wasn’t wrong. Obviously the quotes could have been taken out of context but if you want to change mindsets turning off a large proportion of readers is not the way to go about it.

I don’t know who other people hang out with but the majority of people I know spend a good deal of time struggling with weight management and invest a lot of effort, time and money trying to prevent their horses becoming overweight. I expect more horses die from blown tendons, broken limbs, colic etc. In the top level equestrian sports than do of obesity. All the the lami cases I’ve seen have been due to Cushings.

If you work in the charity animal welfare sector you’re going to get a skewed view of things as you generally only see where things have gone wrong. I don’t think it is reflective of the majority of horse-owners.
 
DabDab said:
*shrugs* maybe because I'm not on facebook?

Indulge me, share a recent WHW piece of info.

I don't think top competitors are the best indicator either, but still, the information is put out in such a way that it's found its way into my brain.
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Well that's where I see stuff now, but 20 years ago, I saw ILPH stuff all over the place. Maybe it's a cognitive bias of some kind - as I say, I couldn't say which riders are involved with different brands because I'm just not interested in that sort of thing. I do, however, interact with figures, statistics, health and disease data and infographics, because they mean something to me...

This is an ongoing campaign about ensuring that owners have an end of life plan, so that horses can be put down when required (even if the owner is away / unavailable), the right decision at the right time, complying with passport law etc. This is just the most recent one I recall seeing - I'm not obsessed with killing horses or anything!

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Thanks, that's interesting.

I'm not convinced it's cognitive bias, and I'm not sure you would if you met me either - I'm a manufacturing engineer by trade who lives largely as a hippy in the forest with a bonkers array of solar panels and almost zero interest in material goods.

I was completely agreeing with your point of view at the beginning of the thread - in as much as my first comment was that it was an important topic but his wording was pants.

But if you prefer - yes, their educational media is really effective (so surely there should be no problem), he worded his little speech brilliantly (and people saying that his choice of words is crap must be the idiot pet owners he speaks of), and there is absolutely nothing else positive that could be done to influence people.

You seem to have taken exception to my leaflet to yard owners suggestion at the beginning of the thread - I'm naive and not at all marketing savvy, so it was not in any way an informed suggestion.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
I’m not convinced about the article. If that was the one online? I deliberately didn’t read it at first because of the quote shown on FB. I knew it would be sanctimonious and condescending to the ordinary horse owner. Having since read it due to this thread I wasn’t wrong. Obviously the quotes could have been taken out of context but if you want to change mindsets turning off a large proportion of readers is not the way to go about it.

I don’t know who other people hang out with but the majority of people I know spend a good deal of time struggling with weight management and invest a lot of effort, time and money trying to prevent their horses becoming overweight. I expect more horses die from blown tendons, broken limbs, colic etc. In the top level equestrian sports than do of obesity. All the the lami cases I’ve seen have been due to Cushings.

If you work in the charity animal welfare sector you’re going to get a skewed view of things as you generally only see where things have gone wrong. I don’t think it is reflective of the majority of horse-owners.
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I think that the problem , that people are effort, time and money and not really understanding the cause of horse obesity. It actually costs practically nothing to keep a horse slimmer.
I think the horse uses 94% of its energy keeping warm, our winters are now shorter and milder and yet when I did a quick google the feed companies are pushing winter feeds when most, unless are working horses in a riding school need only forage.

In my quick google I found this which if we all printed a couple off copies off and put on livery yards may lead to some understanding. I have saved it and every time someone posts, does my horse look thin, on FB this is what they will get.
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/fat-horse-slim.pdf
 
I've not read it but over rugging drives me wild. I get questioned every winter when I have my clipped, hot horse in a 100g and occasionally 200g in the bitterest of temperatures and everyone is say 'oh but I like blah blah horse to be snuggly'. The horror on peoples faces when I turned up to the yard aftre having mine turned out this morning before dressage, you know, because it it better for him, because shock of all shocks I would have to clean him....
 
Batgirl said:
I've not read it but over rugging drives me wild. I get questioned every winter when I have my clipped, hot horse in a 100g and occasionally 200g in the bitterest of temperatures and everyone is say 'oh but I like blah blah horse to be snuggly'. The horror on peoples faces when I turned up to the yard aftre having mine turned out this morning before dressage, you know, because it it better for him, because shock of all shocks I would have to clean him....
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I own the only unrugged horse on our yard! He is very much a pet so no need to keep clean, but it does entertain me how twitchy people get when he rolls into the yard plastered in mud.
 
honetpot said:
I think that the problem , that people are effort, time and money and not really understanding the cause of horse obesity. It actually costs practically nothing to keep a horse slimmer.
I think the horse uses 94% of its energy keeping warm, our winters are now shorter and milder and yet when I did a quick google the feed companies are pushing winter feeds when most, unless are working horses in a riding school need only forage.

In my quick google I found this which if we all printed a couple off copies off and put on livery yards may lead to some understanding. I have saved it and every time someone posts, does my horse look thin, on FB this is what they will get.
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/fat-horse-slim.pdf
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I’ve read that thanks several years ago. It means jack. Most people will never read it because a) they don’t think it applies to them b) it’s too long and many people will be put off by it’s length. Hardly anyone will read a 28 page document. If it really is that simple why does it take 28 pages to explain it?

Frankly I’d hardly be bothered to read it and I’ve got a BSc and an MSc.
 
DabDab said:
But if you prefer - yes, their educational media is really effective (so surely there should be no problem), he worded his little speech brilliantly (and people saying that his choice of words is crap must be the idiot pet owners he speaks of), and there is absolutely nothing else positive that could be done to influence people.

You seem to have taken exception to my leaflet to yard owners suggestion at the beginning of the thread - I'm naive and not at all marketing savvy, so it was not in any way an informed suggestion.
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I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally. I do think your comment that leaflets would be better wasn't very sensible - given that by your own admission, you walk past the stands where such leaflets are available. I really don't know whether you're well versed in marketing or not - I'm certainly not, but I am aware of how much WHW (and the Blue Cross and the BHS welfare and so many others) do.

I don't think he worded his speech well - I said that in my first comment on this thread. I don't particularly agree with how it's being taken, and I think there is a lot in there which is worthwhile, but that is overshadowed by people's reactions to poorly worded concepts like "pampered pets". And that means it's poorly worded. As I said.

I also think their educational material is variable - like most information sources, some are more succinct, some more comprehensive and some are more evidence-based than others. But they do exist and they do promote them in various forms - just as the other welfare organisations do. Despite this there is still a huge problem, which needs to be addressed in manners which go beyond publishing a few more leaflets. That is literally all I'm saying here.
 
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