Beyond belief....

Armas

Armas

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Firstly my heart goes out to Lee Rigby's family. I have read most of the comments in the Woolwich thread and Alec Swan makes some very good points.

I to also spent many years living in many countries including the middle east I lived both in towns and with the Bedouins in the desert.
As a Brit living in a Muslim land I would never ever have been allowed to carry on like this as per the people in the video..... I would have been thrown in jail and deported.

This was filmed last year its frustrating how we have got to this point. Its time we shrug of Europe's control tighten up our boarders as its currently a joke and those extremists that can be deported that have broken the law should be deported. No ifs no buts no expensive appeals at tax payers cost kick them out.
I do believe our country is in dire trouble and within our lifetime it's identity will be lost.

[youtube]psZBaJU_Cvo[/youtube]
 
Sickening, why would you choose to live in a country that you so obviously hate and despise, I know I certainly wouldn't. Whether you are born here or not if you hate the place so much and the people in it, go and live where you like their views and policies. Maybe not because you wouldn't be allowed to march through the streets telling everyone to burn in hell :rolleyes:
 
I don't undertsand why if muslims want to live here if we should all go to hell for not beileveing what they beileve.

some muslim people beileve we "pick" on them and balme them for everything.

if it was a white person that killed lee rigby i would still be as angry and upset to me it doesn't matter what religon on race you are i still think that person deserves everything the press and media throw at them
 
That is unbelievable. :eek: How is it OK for them to walk round shouting that, yet I'm sure if we walked round shouting something similar about them, that would probably be far from OK.
 
Armas said:
As a Brit living in a Muslim land I would never ever have been allowed to carry on like this as per the people in the video..... I would have been thrown in jail and deported.
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That depends on whether you had about a thousand other folk demonstrating with you like these guys and girls - also notice the Rent-a-Mob special offer placards - there's a single organising force behind this march.

This was filmed last year its frustrating how we have got to this point.
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Ah well you can start fighting back by boycotting Vauxhall Motors because it was their idea to encourage immigrant workers to Luton.

Its time we shrug of Europe's control tighten up our boarders as its currently a joke
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Your spelling and grammar could do with some tightening too! What makes you think that any of the folk in the video are immigrants or anything to do with Europe?

... and those extremists that can be deported that have broken the law should be deported.
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Any immigrant convicted of any crime here is routinely deported at the end of serving any imposed sentence NOW! You are confusing the case of Abu Whatshisname - who ironically - hasn't done anything worth prosecuting here - he's the subject of a failed extradition proceeding - to Jordan, which last time I looked - was not in Europe.

I do believe our country is in dire trouble and within our lifetime it's identity will be lost.
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My dear, this country lost it's identity in the 990's when the Danes started arriving - then again in 1066 when the friggin' Normans conquered us and changed everything that was previous! We had all sorts arrive in dribs and drabs in Medieval times, Jews, Hugeneots etc., then two lots of Americans in 1917/18 and 1943/45 - we have been in their thrall ever since.

If you doubt this - listen to "There'll be blue birds over the White Cliffs of Dover" for many people it epitomises the Second World War yet.... when were there EVER Blue Birds over Dover or anywhere else in the U.K.? They are flippin' Swallows! OUR SONG was written in America.

Levi Jeans anyone? McDonnalds, Wendys, Starbucks, chewing gum, and black guys wearing their baseball caps the wrong way round.
 
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This appears to be a far bigger problem than most people are aware of, I certainly didn't know that some Muslims didn't see British law as relevant in their society.

1stclassalan, makes quite a few points there. It's true that historically were have been subject of many, many influxes of different people. We haven't in modern times, though, had our culture, identity, religion and laws all so vociferously attacked, without the right to argue back for fear of being labeled racist.
 
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Armas and fburton, thank you both for your postings. I found both of the clips that you showed to be deeply disturbing with such conflicting arguments and views, that I'm at a loss as to how to unravel my thoughts;

Beware the extremists, regardless of their argument, would be a start.

I agree Armas, that the film that you showed was deeply offensive and worrying in that there are those who would appear to have no concept of the word "harmony" and would appear to have no intention of living in such a state. It would seem that there are extremists who would come here and change our lives. This is a point which would have nothing to do with the discontent felt by those countries where we have provoked a reaction. I would be more than happy to see such provocative and racist marches and meetings banned.

fburton, your film was equally disturbing and whilst valid points were made, as those Shariah exponents in the first film, again we are having others make their points by claiming that the extremists are at the core of Islam, and just as with Christianity, so it's those who shout the loudest who are heard soonest.

We have to consider that the vast majority of Muslims, be they in this country or their home lands, are Law abiding members of ours and their various communities, and they live lives where they integrate and fit in with their neighbours, regardless of sect or creed.

I'm not and never have been of a mind to have others come to our land, and dictate what they will accept. Those who come here fit in with us, and accept what we offer them. If they don't like living here, that's fine, they can sod off. That's really the base line of a reasoned argument, and isn't in any way a soft option.

The problem is worsening in that there are many disaffected young men, born in this country, of Middle Eastern origin and they are the willing victims who are being radicalised by those who would use them as stooges. A non-English speaking Somali or Pakistani may draw the attention of our security forces. A holidaying London lad, doesn't.

I'd also offer you something which I bumped into, quite by chance, and since starting this post. It's below and I hope that you'll all read it, and perhaps ponder on how we deal with the extremist and dangerous elements of Society. We have the support of the average man, I feel sure.

"In a statement issued 24 hours after the incidence, Sayd Muqtada al-Sadr condemned the horrific crime at Woolwich, South London

In his statement, which was an answer to a question forwarded to him by a Sunni brother who lives in the West:

- We are all concerned regarding (the rise) of these extreme voices

- Beheading people, this disgraceful and ugly act, what do they want from carrying out such act? Defending Islam, is that what they want, the are making a big mistake, this disgraceful and ugly act, weakens Islam & destroys its reputation

- Whoever has committed this crime deserves punishment and to be boycotted

- Cursed are the hands of those who behead people in London and elsewhere, and those extremists who place bombs in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere

- Even if they (the West) were occupiers of our land, this does not give us the right to confront them with terror. If they make mistakes by occupying our land, then we should confront them with our honourable manners, from our great religion

- And Even they don’t withdraw from our land, we still condemn the crime of beheading and all forms of terrorism

- I finally call upon Muslims who live in the West: Beware of extremism and deviation from Islam. Ensure that you reflect a good image about Islam and Muslims, Sunni’s or Shia’s, so this may be a an opportunity for guidance and strength for you all.

By Al-Sadr Office

View all articles by Al-Sadr Office

Sayd Muqtada al-Sadr condemns Woolwich crime

May 24th, 2013 - 12:46 am

Sheikh Mohammed al-Yaqoobi visits Sayd Muqtada al-Sadr

May 7th, 2013 - 8:02 pm"


Why is it that the moderate man is never heard?

Alec.
 
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Watching that first video, I felt threatened, and I'm only watching it! What is this world coming to? Some giant wanna-be cult?
 
1stclassalan said:
That depends on whether you had about a thousand other folk demonstrating with you like these guys and girls - also notice the Rent-a-Mob special offer placards - there's a single organising force behind this march.



Ah well you can start fighting back by boycotting Vauxhall Motors because it was their idea to encourage immigrant workers to Luton.



Your spelling and grammar could do with some tightening too! What makes you think that any of the folk in the video are immigrants or anything to do with Europe?



Any immigrant convicted of any crime here is routinely deported at the end of serving any imposed sentence NOW! You are confusing the case of Abu Whatshisname - who ironically - hasn't done anything worth prosecuting here - he's the subject of a failed extradition proceeding - to Jordan, which last time I looked - was not in Europe.



My dear, this country lost it's identity in the 990's when the Danes started arriving - then again in 1066 when the friggin' Normans conquered us and changed everything that was previous! We had all sorts arrive in dribs and drabs in Medieval times, Jews, Hugeneots etc., then two lots of Americans in 1917/18 and 1943/45 - we have been in their thrall ever since.

If you doubt this - listen to "There'll be blue birds over the White Cliffs of Dover" for many people it epitomises the Second World War yet.... when were there EVER Blue Birds over Dover or anywhere else in the U.K.? They are flippin' Swallows! OUR SONG was written in America.

Levi Jeans anyone? McDonnalds, Wendys, Starbucks, chewing gum, and black guys wearing their baseball caps the wrong way round.
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My Dear,

1)This problem is not isolated to Luton.

2)Thank you for pointing out that my spelling and grammar need work. Given that I am dyslexic I am aware of this. However my spelling and grammar have not stopped me in becoming successful and living my dream.

3) May I suggest that you actually do some research before you make such an ill-informed statement. Europes constant interfering is a problem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-and-illegal-immigrants-we-cant-deport.html

4) Thank you for the history lesson. I was totally unaware of those facts :rolleyes: We have moved on since the dates you have quoted.
 
I've never seen a Wendys in England, I must say. Maybe they just haven't reached the North.

And who said that wearing baseball caps the wrong way round was limited to black men? I've seen many a white girl rocking that look :D

I didn't like the first video. Whilst the scenes in it were shocking, the main girl was pretty hopeless. She jsut kept repeating people's insults back at them, rather than properly challenging or responding to what they were saying. Granted, there was limited time for a debate. But just repeating over and over "so I'm going to burn in Hell" is not helping anyone.

The other chap was far more eloquent. I don't agree with all that he says, but he put his argument well. Personally no religion offends me. Extremists within that religion (whichever religion that is, be it Protestants or Catholics, Sikhs, Hindus, or anything else) do. I really don't agree with generalisations saying that all immigration is bad (and immigration isn't really relevant to a religious debate in my view. Integration is an issue whichever generation of immigrant a person is, or even if their ancestors have been here since the dark ages). The question is community integration and segregation, not immigration. If communities were more open to integration there would not be these tensions between the different sections of society. I also don't agree with generalisations that all Muslims are bad. It's really nonsense. It's a vocal minority of a massive group. The same way that the EDL doesn't represent the views of the whole of the white British population. And the IRA doesn't demonstrate the position of every Irish Catholic.

I don't think an entire religious community should be criticised and feared because of the actions of a small proportion of its members.
 
Enoch Powell predicted this happening in the early 70s and by god it has come true, he was damned as a racist then......... It is a shame people dismissed him as a fanatic, to late now as we will be taken over before long. God help us.
 
How do you protect your self against reckless hate that's the question we are going to have to ask ourselves sooner rather than later.
 
justabob said:
Enoch Powell predicted this happening in the early 70s and by god it has come true, he was damned as a racist then......... It is a shame people dismissed him as a fanatic, to late now as we will be taken over before long. God help us.
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Taken over by what exactly? I can't believe the amount of people using the actions of a select few nutters as reason to condemn an entire culture. Have I been transported back to the 1040s?
 
char3479 said:
Taken over by what exactly? I can't believe the amount of people using the actions of a select few nutters as reason to condemn an entire culture. Have I been transported back to the 1040s?
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That was supposed to read 1940s but whatever, the point remains the same. Are we regressing?
 
char3479 said:
Taken over by what exactly? I can't believe the amount of people using the actions of a select few nutters as reason to condemn an entire culture. Have I been transported back to the 1040s?
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The select few nutters are causing murder and mayhem in OUR country, nobody is condemning an entire culture at all. Just asking them to keep their culture in their own bloody country.
 
I hadn't seen that first video before and I am shocked. Why stay somewhere when you clearly don't like the place or have any respect for anyones beliefs but your own? :rolleyes:
 
I dont care who comes to our country, as long as they uphold our country's laws. There will always be extremists but they are never the majority.

What does concern me though, are the Shari'a Courts and Councils. An interesting article,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...s-consensual-as-rape-House-of-Lords-told.html

but seek out the documentary 'Inside British Shari'a Courts', I watched it recently and was dumbfounded. There are some very insidious and worrying things going on that should be stamped out, particularly in the field of womens' rights. Apart from the extremists, there must be thousands of Muslim women living in quiet fear and subjugation in the UK, whom the laws of our country are forgetting, or ignoring.
 
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helenalbert said:
And who said that wearing baseball caps the wrong way round was limited to black men? I've seen many a white girl rocking that look :.
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Ah the irony of that statement! The fact that a FOREIGN influence has been adopted and assimulated within our society is my very point!
 
Armas said:
1)This problem is not isolated to Luton.
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Quite so but I was dealing with the case in hand - not many other towns have had similar marches.

May I suggest that you actually do some research before you make such an ill-informed statement.
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Feel free to make the sweeping statement of what you think my basis for opinion is - but you really have no idea of how much "research" I've done.

I could say that you leave yourself open - at least to a charge of ommision by quoting The Telegraph:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-and-illegal-immigrants-we-cant-deport.html

As to my reckoning these cases are nothing more than blatantly Conservative anti-European anything Justices flinging their weight around because they can.

Thank you for the history lesson...... We have moved on since the dates you have quoted.
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Some would say that it is our adherence to American policy and their influence which has started all this business so I think your point needs work.
 
Mdonna31 said:
Maybe because they are few and far between, whilst the extremists amount to thousands ....thats worrying
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If true... I'm not sure it is though. It may or may not be. The problem is that extremists shout and moderates tend to be quiet, so guess who gets heard. We need to find ways to give the moderate voices platforms and outlets to be heard by everyone. However, I suspect the Muslim moderates have more of an influence with Muslims than we assume from seeing events like the one shown in the video, which are high profile by dint of being sharable via YouTube. To be honest, though, I don't know for sure.
 
justabob said:
The select few nutters are causing murder and mayhem in OUR country, nobody is condemning an entire culture at all. Just asking them to keep their culture in their own bloody country.
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All of their culture, or just the bits we don't like? Wouldn't it be more realistic (and tolerant) to restrict condemnation to those aspects that break laws or cause real harm (not just offence)? I don't go around Glasgow telling Celtic fans and their families to eff off back to their own country - not that I've been particularly bothered personally by anyone's religious beliefs.

Btw, there was an excellent discussion of free speech on last night's Unreliable Evidence (BBC R4):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01sn9cf
 
A very disturbing video :(, difficult to know how to respond coherently without venting!

But, living close to the area (Herts/Beds border) I would like to say:

I do some work in a school in Luton in which the majority of pupils are from Muslim families. They have different views to us, but they do want to live in harmony. They send their children to a school with a mostly white, C of E, teaching staff because they want their children to grow up as part of our society. The video does show a minority group and I do believe that if they do not want to be peaceful, self-supporting, UK law-abiding citizens then they should be dealt with according to our laws.

I also have relatives who have worked at Vauxhall. Their co-workers were hard-working, family men.

Our country has had a huge amount of influence from other countries BUT things like burger bars, Levi's, St Albans (seems an odd choice to add to the list, but he was German), are not extreme, radical or directed against us.

We do need to toughen up to maintain our identity. But who is going to make that happen? Frustrating, isn't it?
 
That first video is a disgrace they should not be allowed to stay in this country, how dare they say we should convert to muslim just because they are here and think so, unfortunately us English are now becoming a minority in this country because there are so many immigrants here, if the government had done something about this sooner that soldier may still be alive.
 
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